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An Open Letter Against Anti-Muslimism on DDO

charleslb
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9/20/2014 4:33:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In case anyone somehow, and culpably, hasn't noticed, our culture is currently rife with anti-Muslim sentiment and speech, i.e. fear, hate, and hatemongering. American culture has indeed evolved a bitter (the bitterness is of course mostly displaced disgruntlement against the inequities and sense of insecurity generated by our own plutocratic societal status quo) and bigoted blend of religious and racial prejudice now fixating on the stereotypical Muslim madman (who's clearly just a scapegoat du jour for our existential anxiety about living in an era of global crisis; yes, anxiety needs a focal point, one that gives us something to wage "A war on", one that gives us a sense of control). At the beginning of the twenty-first century our national zeitgeist is disappointingly infected with a mean-spirited mixture of Christianist xenophobia, in which the age-old Christian demonization of other religions that don't recognize Jesus Christ as their lord & savior is combined with a modern secular contempt for the supposed medievalism of Muslim culture.

Yes, to the conservative collective consciousness and unconscious the chief evil and crime of the "Islamist" is his/her perceived theological and cultural alienness to the overlapping ideologies of evangelical Christianity and Americanism. Just read some of the pukey prejudiced postings by conservatives and Christianists on this site, they're appaling expressions of religious-racialist Us vs. Them-ism without compunction, of ideologically-driven anger and fear directed at a manufactured bogeyman, certainly not a reasoned response to a real threat (examples: the completely out-of-place anti-Muslim opinions expressed by a character calling himself cheyennebodie in the comments section of this debate, http://www.debate.org... and the Pat Robertsonian content of the posts of LifeMeansGodIsGood in a thread whose title refers to "scary" Muslim culture!). Well, of course DDO is not going to be immune or insulated, of course it's going to be a microcosm of society at large. But let's not allow it to become a bastion of bigotry, let's not allow the ugly and stupid-minded to take over a site dedicated to intelligent discussion and debate. Let's not allow any expression of Islamophobia we come across to go unchallenged. Let's make it consistently clear that although all points of view are welcome intolerance will not be tolerated, will not meet with apathy or acceptance.

And no, tolerance doesn't require the tolerance of intolerance, but rather the taking of a principled and critical stance against all forms of bigotry and discrimination. To permit and tacitly condone the verbal persecution of Muslims or any group in the name of tolerance would indeed be a tragic irony and a travesty of authentic tolerance. Of course those who engage in hate speech against, in the verbal persecution of: Muslims, racial minorities, gays, et al., should not be subjected to physical persecution, but they most certainly should be vociferously disapproved of, and disabused of their benighted beliefs. So let's each of us do her/his small part here on DDO to combat anti-Muslimism and other expressions of Christofascism, and perhaps thereby help to promote zero tolerance of bigotry in American politics, religion, and society.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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9/20/2014 7:21:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/20/2014 7:17:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
So tired of the "My God is bigger than Your God" wars.

As am I, but this doesn't mean that we can ignore the presence of individuals with this mentality on our beloved site, does it?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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9/21/2014 12:16:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
No folks, I'm certainly not saying that one should waste all of one's time at DDO seeking out and arguing with boring intolerant types, but when one comes across one of them one should indeed at least take a moment to rebuke him/her, to let him/her know that we're not a congregation of Republican Southern Baptists who buy into his/her bumptious brand of bigoted BS. This isn't really too much to ask, is it?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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9/21/2014 3:10:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Perhaps (this is of course an obviously rhetorical "perhaps) some bigots out there with delusions of being decent and rational-minded individuals might attempt to use a "Well, duh!" defense; you know, the one that goes: "Well duh, they attacked us, therefore we have a legit reason to fear and loathe them". But of course the glaring glitch in this bit of specious reasoning or excuse-making is quite simply that "they", the entire Ummah, the entire and diverse flock of Islam have not attacked the West; have not all caucused and colluded to terrorize the American and European infidel.

Rather, a lunatic fringe (driven, btw, into ideological lunacy by history; history in fact made and inflicted upon the Middle East by the West; e.g., the forcible inclusion and victimization of Middle Eastern and North African peoples in the British and French empires which only ended in the early 1960s, the especially cruel and morally criminal colonization of Algeria [which lasted until 1962!], the Suez aggression, American neocolonialism, the use of repressive client regimes such as that of the Shah and Saddam, the support of the state of Israel despite its hegemonic behavior toward the Palestinians and other neighboring Arab peoples, two economically-motivated U.S. invasions of Iraq and the ongoing occupation of Afghanistan, etc.) has perpetrated some unspeakably reprehensible acts (although no more unspeakably reprehensible than the American corporate-military complex's recent invasion/occupation of Iraq on the lame pretext of protecting us from fictional WMDs), which does not at all entitle and excuse us to go all simpleminded and collectively pigeonhole all Muslims in the contemptible category of crazed al-Qaeda & ISIS-type jihadists.

No, in short, "terrorism" is no legitimate reason at all to be a Muslim basher. It's merely another bogus excuse that entails some specious, unsound & invalid, and downright fallacious reasoning. Don't entertain and dignify this or any seemingly plausible excuse for a hatered that actually comes from a dark psychological-ideological place, don't participate in shameful bigotry against an entire faith because of the behavior of some of its adherents, don't let your concern about "Islamists" cause you to gravitate toward the point of view of Christianists, don't allow fear to degrade you into an ugly imbecile.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
LogicalLunatic
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9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/20/2014 4:33:16 PM, charleslb wrote:
In case anyone somehow, and culpably, hasn't noticed, our culture is currently rife with anti-Muslim sentiment and speech, i.e. fear, hate, and hatemongering. American culture has indeed evolved a bitter (the bitterness is of course mostly displaced disgruntlement against the inequities and sense of insecurity generated by our own plutocratic societal status quo) and bigoted blend of religious and racial prejudice now fixating on the stereotypical Muslim madman (who's clearly just a scapegoat du jour for our existential anxiety about living in an era of global crisis; yes, anxiety needs a focal point, one that gives us something to wage "A war on", one that gives us a sense of control). At the beginning of the twenty-first century our national zeitgeist is disappointingly infected with a mean-spirited mixture of Christianist xenophobia, in which the age-old Christian demonization of other religions that don't recognize Jesus Christ as their lord & savior is combined with a modern secular contempt for the supposed medievalism of Muslim culture.

Yes, to the conservative collective consciousness and unconscious the chief evil and crime of the "Islamist" is his/her perceived theological and cultural alienness to the overlapping ideologies of evangelical Christianity and Americanism. Just read some of the pukey prejudiced postings by conservatives and Christianists on this site, they're appaling expressions of religious-racialist Us vs. Them-ism without compunction, of ideologically-driven anger and fear directed at a manufactured bogeyman, certainly not a reasoned response to a real threat (examples: the completely out-of-place anti-Muslim opinions expressed by a character calling himself cheyennebodie in the comments section of this debate, http://www.debate.org... and the Pat Robertsonian content of the posts of LifeMeansGodIsGood in a thread whose title refers to "scary" Muslim culture!). Well, of course DDO is not going to be immune or insulated, of course it's going to be a microcosm of society at large. But let's not allow it to become a bastion of bigotry, let's not allow the ugly and stupid-minded to take over a site dedicated to intelligent discussion and debate. Let's not allow any expression of Islamophobia we come across to go unchallenged. Let's make it consistently clear that although all points of view are welcome intolerance will not be tolerated, will not meet with apathy or acceptance.

And no, tolerance doesn't require the tolerance of intolerance, but rather the taking of a principled and critical stance against all forms of bigotry and discrimination. To permit and tacitly condone the verbal persecution of Muslims or any group in the name of tolerance would indeed be a tragic irony and a travesty of authentic tolerance. Of course those who engage in hate speech against, in the verbal persecution of: Muslims, racial minorities, gays, et al., should not be subjected to physical persecution, but they most certainly should be vociferously disapproved of, and disabused of their benighted beliefs. So let's each of us do her/his small part here on DDO to combat anti-Muslimism and other expressions of Christofascism, and perhaps thereby help to promote zero tolerance of bigotry in American politics, religion, and society.

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.
Literally, name one time where Christians and Muslims have not killed each other whenever a strong Government did not prevent them from doing so.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
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LogicalLunatic
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9/21/2014 3:29:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/20/2014 7:21:48 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/20/2014 7:17:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
So tired of the "My God is bigger than Your God" wars.

As am I, but this doesn't mean that we can ignore the presence of individuals with this mentality on our beloved site, does it?

You cannot kick people off the Site just for bigotry, though. I myself often thought and said extremely Islamophobic stuff, though I do so considerably less these days.
My point is, bigotry, as long as it doesn't escalate to violence, is also Freedom of Speech. You can't ban bigotry just for bigotry's sake.
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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
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charleslb
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9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.

Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Literally, name one time where Christians and Muslims have not killed each other whenever a strong Government did not prevent them from doing so.

It would arguablybe more profitable and enlightening to study the recent historical factors and ongoing causes that explain the current contentious state of affairs existing between the West and the Middle East.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/21/2014 5:05:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 3:29:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

You cannot kick people off the Site just for bigotry, though.

Nowhere have I advocated excluding anti-Muslim bigots from the site, I've merely advocated rebuking them lest they or anyone else develop the wrong idea that their bigoted & hateful views are condoned and legitimate.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/21/2014 5:09:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sloppy typo correction. "... to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will ..." should of course read: "... to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern and to usher in an era of people of good will ..."
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Wallstreetatheist
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9/21/2014 5:21:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/20/2014 7:17:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
So tired of the "My God is bigger than Your God" wars.
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LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric. Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*. We have done both good and bad to them, but by no means are we responsible for every problem they have over there.

Literally, name one time where Christians and Muslims have not killed each other whenever a strong Government did not prevent them from doing so.

It would arguablybe more profitable and enlightening to study the recent historical factors and ongoing causes that explain the current contentious state of affairs existing between the West and the Middle East.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/21/2014 5:43:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric.

It's not rhetoric but rather a litany of historical facts inconvenient to your point of view.

Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*.

This is rather like arguing that Native Americans shouldn't criticize the white man for dispossessing and mass-murdering their ancestors because thanks to the white man they no longer live in teepees!

We have done both good and bad to them, but by no means are we responsible for every problem they have over there.

No, we're just a quite large causal factor in the majority of their troubles.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
fazz
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9/21/2014 5:56:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric. Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*. We have done both good and bad to them, but by no means are we responsible for every problem they have over there.

No, Charles he is right. Colonization was like an early form of Globalization. It was unfair. But it advanced the world in many ways. Anyway, the US Empire like the British Empire is dead. The Brics will take their place: http://www.debate.org...
LogicalLunatic
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9/21/2014 6:39:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 5:43:56 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric.

It's not rhetoric but rather a litany of historical facts inconvenient to your point of view.


Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*.

This is rather like arguing that Native Americans shouldn't criticize the white man for dispossessing and mass-murdering their ancestors because thanks to the white man they no longer live in teepees!

To an extent that is true. There's no point whining about the injustices done to your long dead ancestors perpetrated by long dead men which resulted in you living the comfortable modern lifestyle.

We have done both good and bad to them, but by no means are we responsible for every problem they have over there.


No, we're just a quite large causal factor in the majority of their troubles.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
charleslb
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9/21/2014 6:45:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 5:56:50 PM, fazz wrote:
At 9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric. Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*. We have done both good and bad to them, but by no means are we responsible for every problem they have over there.

No, Charles he is right. Colonization was like an early form of Globalization. It was unfair. But it advanced the world in many ways.

Yeah, along with lethal poverty that takes millions of lives every year and undemocratic client governments that oppress the survivors the West has given the Third World television and Lady Gaga; mm-hmm, the end really justifies the means. Yes indeedy, the erosion of the cultural diversity of the world resulting from our cultural imperialism really atones for our hegemony. Please note my sarcasm here, as it should suffice as a retort.

Anyway, the US Empire like the British Empire is dead. The Brics will take their place:

Yes, of course history teaches that all empires eventually wane, and the BRICS may one day take their place but in the meantime the financial, institutional, military and other bricks of which the current world-system are constructed continue to build prisons of poverty and First-World hegemony for the peoples of the Third.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/21/2014 6:56:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 6:39:57 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 5:43:56 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 5:23:04 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/21/2014 4:56:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/21/2014 3:26:11 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

War between Christianity and Islam is almost like a natural part of human civilization because it happens almost everywhere that Christians and Muslims both habitate.


Even if for argument's sake I agree, well, would it follow that we should resign ourselves to being a part of a perennial problem rather than attempting to do our part to break human civilization out of an old and pernicious pattern to and usher in an era of people of good will seeking genuine solutions. And btw, no, I don't agree that the current state of relations between the West and the Muslim world can be understood as just the latest installment of an age-old mutual hostility. Rather than actually stemming from theological differences, the anti-Western hostility that one finds in the Middle Eat today, and that takes its most intense form in "Islamism", is due to the West's ongoing history of economically, capitalistically-motivated policies, meddling, colonialism & neocolonialism, invasions, and military occupations in the region. And of course is a reaction against the West's capitalistically-driven cultural imperialism - can one really blame "Islamists" for being fiercely opposed to having crass American late capitalist culture pushed on their societies?! In short, if our own corporate elite didn't have us behaving in a hegemonic fashion toward the Middle Eat and the rest of the Third World we wouldn't be the targets of anger and "terrorism" and would not be reacting with anger, bigotry, and the murderous use of military force. That is, we can thank capitalism, not religion, for pulling the West back into a vicious cycle of conflict with Islam.

Cut the "We evil Westerners ruined the Middle East" rhetoric.

It's not rhetoric but rather a litany of historical facts inconvenient to your point of view.


Without the West, the Middle East would have absolutely no internet access, no Television, no computers, no vaccines, no electricity, no electric lights, no cars, no telephones, no radios, no Coca-Cola, and no *Insert every technological advancement of the past 200 years here*.

This is rather like arguing that Native Americans shouldn't criticize the white man for dispossessing and mass-murdering their ancestors because thanks to the white man they no longer live in teepees!

To an extent that is true. There's no point whining about the injustices done to your long dead ancestors perpetrated by long dead men which resulted in you living the comfortable modern lifestyle.

Ah, you cleverly twist my point to paint Native Americans and the victims of this country's hegemony as whiners. But of course getting in your little dig against the downtrodden also betrays the fact that your cognitive orientation is one that views victims without the appropriate empathy and supportiveness. That is, you inadvertently help to discredit your own position by revealing the psychological place that it really comes from. Thank you.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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9/21/2014 10:41:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.gamespot.com...

"This is propaganda, possibly made by Us government themselves. War with Isis is not about stopping bad guys. Why do you think Obama arms Al Qaeda in Syria to fight the Assad regime? It's about global empire building, controlling and selling drugs, guns, and lithium, and blood sacrifice for maniacal, rich weirdos, with God complex."

- Dredcrumb9, GameSpot member

Reminded me of Charles lol.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/22/2014 1:17:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 10:41:39 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.gamespot.com...

"This is propaganda, possibly made by Us government themselves. War with Isis is not about stopping bad guys. Why do you think Obama arms Al Qaeda in Syria to fight the Assad regime? It's about global empire building, controlling and selling drugs, guns, and lithium, and blood sacrifice for maniacal, rich weirdos, with God complex."

- Dredcrumb9, GameSpot member

Reminded me of Charles lol.

Well, the plutocratic elite consists of individuals who operate like sociopaths, but I don't know about them being weirdoes, I prefer the concept of the banality of evil.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/22/2014 5:13:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, at least there aren't too many folks responding to attempt to defend anti-Muslim intolerance. Yes, apparently they've wisely retreated under their slimy rocks. Let's each of us do his/her bit to keep them there by rebuking them whenever they emerge to post their benighted and bigoted views.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/23/2014 2:07:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Happy first day of fall, you-all.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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9/23/2014 7:24:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 10:41:39 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.gamespot.com...

"This is propaganda, possibly made by Us government themselves. War with Isis is not about stopping bad guys. Why do you think Obama arms Al Qaeda in Syria to fight the Assad regime? It's about global empire building, controlling and selling drugs, guns, and lithium, and blood sacrifice for maniacal, rich weirdos, with God complex."

- Dredcrumb9, GameSpot member

Reminded me of Charles lol.

This banner ad popped up when I read this....

http://www.muslima.com...
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/23/2014 2:18:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/23/2014 7:24:42 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/21/2014 10:41:39 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.gamespot.com...

"This is propaganda, possibly made by Us government themselves. War with Isis is not about stopping bad guys. Why do you think Obama arms Al Qaeda in Syria to fight the Assad regime? It's about global empire building, controlling and selling drugs, guns, and lithium, and blood sacrifice for maniacal, rich weirdos, with God complex."

- Dredcrumb9, GameSpot member

Reminded me of Charles lol.

This banner ad popped up when I read this....

http://www.muslima.com...

Well, that site and ad just goes to confirm that not all Muslims are force-women-back-into-burqas "Islamists".
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.