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Your Micronation

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is just a bit of fun, but might provide a few interesting exchanges.

Let's pretend the following,
1: You have acquired full posession and sovereignty over a small island (I am thinking southern atlantic, indian ocean, pacific but it's largely academic).
2: Your sovereignty is widely, if not universally recognised, you could for instance join the UN without issue.
3: The island has sufficient resources upon which to base/start a viable economy, such as a reliable cash crop, oil reserves, whatever.
4: You have enough money, (before taking out loans) to start the colonisation and economic development of the island. That is not to say that money is no problem, but you have enough to get the ball rolling.
5: You don't have to worry about any natives.
6: Your only military threats would be fellow micronations, bored third world nations, terrorists (maybe), criminal gangs, pirates.

Obviously you decide to establish your own country, what sort of nation will it be? I'll list some headlines to consider.

Government/Constitution.
Foreign Policy.
Immigration.
Economics.
Taxation.
Law & Order.
Defence.
Religion.

It might just be amusing for people to consider and show, the practical results of their ideologies.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/26/2010 12:16:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Obviously you decide to establish your own country, what sort of nation will it be?

Hunting/Gathering.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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3/26/2010 12:34:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
This is just a bit of fun, but might provide a few interesting exchanges.

Alright, I'm up for a good academic exercise.

Government/Constitution.

One similar to the Canadian Charter of Rights, but with a few tweaks, and obviously I don't think I'd really need to separate the federal jurisdiction from my non-existent provinces.

Foreign Policy.

Well, considering the situation, it would generally be open and favourable to whoever offers the best deal at the time. Little countries can't pick and choose their allies with great candor. But I would not enlist my country's army into any foreign coalition sent off into some foreign country, and I wouldn't allow any military bases unless approved by the populace. If my little micronation is in a chain or something of micronations, I would try to make mine the regional leader, since that'd give me more leverage over my neighbors as well as any potential big partners that want to nose around.

Immigration.

Open immigration, but considering that a micronation is, well, a micronation, you'd have to have pretty small quotas. But I'd offer up foreign residencies and allow anyone who wants to come and can show themselves not to be coming just to be another burden for the state (automatically going on welfare, etc.) to come in and enjoy.

Economics.

Hm. Well, this is a fuzzy area for me, but I'd have it more or less like Canada's, in terms of regulations and state control - there, but not too there. Steady hand, aye.

Taxation.

Depending on how viable certain services are, I'd have some good progressive taxation, and even though I find it abhorrent, especially since it was done to me, I'd probably tax those tourists and residencies more, since they'd probably have more money. Just the situation you're in, I suppose. But, depending on how big the population is, and if it is an oil-based economy, how much comes in from the royalties, the tax rate would fluctuate.

Law & Order.

One of the main problems I find with the police is the lack of oversight, especially for the big federal cops - which is what the police force would be there, since I doubt it'd be efficient to have any municipal or regional cops. So I'd try to tie in police accountability to both civilian and military oversight - see how that works. As for "order," I'd obviously copy the system we currently have in the West. Trial by jury, right to an attorney, etc.

Defence.

That's a tricky one. How big does a micronation's army have to be? If anything, I'd keep maybe a small land force, and a larger naval force, doing mostly coast guard duties and the like. If I were a regional leader, however, I'd probably need a larger force in order to maybe help out among my neighbors and keep the area stable.

Religion.

No state religion, though people may practice whatever they want to.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/26/2010 12:38:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If I owned the island, I would run it as a company (steel or electronics manufacturing) independent of government, not a nation. I would set up apartments for the workers and rent them out. I'd build a small seaport and a small landing strip and guarantee police protection to my employees as part of their wages. I'd have a mall built near the port and rent it out to whoever will pay the highest rent so that I don't have to be self-sufficient in production.

At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Obviously you decide to establish your own country, what sort of nation will it be? I'll list some headlines to consider.
Government/Constitution.
An excerpt from a contract between the employee and myself.

"I, the employee, may not interfere with another's ability to govern their person and property. The result of suspicion of an infringement upon this ability will be the warrant of the arrest of myself. Conviction in a court by a peer majority of 8 out of 11 will result in the assessment of damages due and an immediate repayment. If the repayment cannot be made, I will become the property of the victim, or one of his heirs in the case of death, until a time determined by the convicting peer jury."

Foreign Policy.

Free trade to all, participation in no wars against groups of people not directly threatening my person, property, or employees.

The defensive military shall consist of a deterrent against nuclear warheads, perhaps a missile defense program or something. No army or navy will be required unless there is an attack, but if my profits are high enough, I should be able to hire and train a reserve private army. If my profits are not high enough, I will simply hire mercenaries to defend from attackers.

Immigration.

Unlimited.

Economics

Free, as discussed before. No price controls, etc.

Taxation.

None. Coverage of traditional government services are a part of the employment contract.

Law & Order.

In contract.

Defence.

See foreign policy.

Religion.

Free, given that no one's ability to govern their person and property is infringed.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/26/2010 12:40:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:16:06 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Obviously you decide to establish your own country, what sort of nation will it be?

Hunting/Gathering.

Primitivism would be cool. A lot of leisure, little labor. Subsistence living only, but regardless, work would be less than 25% as long per day and about the same difficulty.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/26/2010 12:54:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:40:57 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 3/26/2010 12:16:06 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Obviously you decide to establish your own country, what sort of nation will it be?

Hunting/Gathering.

Primitivism would be cool. A lot of leisure, little labor. Subsistence living only, but regardless, work would be less than 25% as long per day and about the same difficulty.

And much more engaging IMO.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/26/2010 1:08:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Government/Constitution.
A Minarcho-Socialist main-frame.
Foreign Policy.
Free-trade, no war except if in retaliation.
Immigration.
Open boarders.
Economics.
All businesses are cooperatively owned by everyone involved within them, but has no further regulation. Most but not all necessities are taken care of.
Taxation.
Only a level income tax exists.
Law & Order.
No initiation of force exists outside the for described business model.
Defense.
Every citizen upon reaching adulthood(12-16) is given and trained how to use a firearm. Military forces will be very small.
Religion.
Free-exercise.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/26/2010 1:30:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 1:08:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Defense.
Every citizen upon reaching adulthood(12-16) is given and trained how to use a firearm. Military forces will be very small.

National Guncare. Haha.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/26/2010 1:32:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 1:30:29 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 3/26/2010 1:08:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Defense.
Every citizen upon reaching adulthood(12-16) is given and trained how to use a firearm. Military forces will be very small.

National Guncare. Haha.

Haha, yes exactly. I think it would lower crime rates dramatically.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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3/26/2010 1:42:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 1:32:57 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Haha, yes exactly. I think it would lower crime rates dramatically.

Or you'd give every Tom, Dick and Harry with a grudge against either you or one another a lethal weapon and training in its use.

It would lower crime rates though - just that no one would be left alive.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Snap. wjmelements pretty much took my idea. I'll just suggest one improvement.

At 3/26/2010 12:38:48 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Immigration.

Unlimited.

So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it? I'd suggest letting people immigrate based on request, perhaps scheduling an interview with a potential employee. Random hobos do you no good.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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3/26/2010 3:01:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM, mongeese wrote:
So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it?

Menial workers are always needed.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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3/26/2010 3:04:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 3:01:15 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM, mongeese wrote:
So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it?

Menial workers are always needed.

Not always. What do you suggest that the hobo do?
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/26/2010 3:12:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM, mongeese wrote:
Snap. wjmelements pretty much took my idea. I'll just suggest one improvement.

At 3/26/2010 12:38:48 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Immigration.

Unlimited.

So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it? I'd suggest letting people immigrate based on request, perhaps scheduling an interview with a potential employee. Random hobos do you no good.

I'm not going to employ him. Maybe one of the local stores will, but I only see him packing up and leaving. If he has the money to get a plane ticket over, then he probably has enough to go back. If not, meh, his poor planning and his responsibility. I am not a job umbrella.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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3/26/2010 5:14:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 3:04:45 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 3/26/2010 3:01:15 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM, mongeese wrote:
So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it?

Menial workers are always needed.

Not always. What do you suggest that the hobo do?

... Pick bananas? Do construction? Lots of things he can do. You've never been in a second-or-third world country, have you. Pretty easy to give them a job.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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3/27/2010 1:09:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 12:12:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
6: Your only military threats would be fellow criminal gangs.

Here comes the United States.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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3/27/2010 1:41:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/26/2010 5:14:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 3/26/2010 3:04:45 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 3/26/2010 3:01:15 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 3/26/2010 2:58:32 PM, mongeese wrote:
So, if a hobo comes to your shores, with no skills whatsoever, while you have no job openings whatsoever, what are you going to do about it?

Menial workers are always needed.

Not always. What do you suggest that the hobo do?

... Pick bananas? Do construction? Lots of things he can do. You've never been in a second-or-third world country, have you. Pretty easy to give them a job.

What if you've already got all of the other hobos doing those jobs?