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Anyone here who....?

apb4y
Posts: 480
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9/25/2014 5:10:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:03:25 PM, TheINFJNala wrote:
Anyone here who supports gay marriage but is pro-life (against abortion)?

If forced at gun-point to take a stand on these issues, that's how I would vote.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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9/26/2014 11:10:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes. That is how I would describe myself.

If, by pro-life, you mean against abortions after twenty weeks, and that abortions are permissible in cases of rape, incest, high risk pregnancy, etc.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/26/2014 1:14:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:03:25 PM, TheINFJNala wrote:
Anyone here who supports gay marriage but is pro-life (against abortion)?

If by supporting gay marriage you mean as long as marriage is recognized by the state (which it oughtn't) and by pro-life you mean view it as murder regardless if it is legal (which it ought, within parameters), then yes.
My work here is, finally, done.
Porkloin
Posts: 53
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9/27/2014 5:41:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:03:25 PM, TheINFJNala wrote:
Anyone here who supports gay marriage but is pro-life (against abortion)?

In general, I'm pro-choice. Past a point in gestation, I'm generally against abortion, but would in no way totally outlaw it. Few people are for abortion being 100% illegal, no matter what, or for it being legal without any restrictions at all.

I've spent many years arguing abortion on message boards. There are indeed people who support gay marriage and are pro-life, i.e. they are pretty much against abortion, period. There has been a big, fast change on "gay issues" - it really surprised me. Most Republicans now realize they can't fight the tide, there.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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9/27/2014 5:56:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyone here who supports gay marriage but is pro-life (against abortion)?

I'm not entirely sure where you were going with this question. It isn't really an 'either-or,' is it? They are two complex, unrelated issues.

Few people are for abortion being 100% illegal, no matter what, or for it being legal without any restrictions at all.

You're right, most people are moderates when it comes to abortion. It's too bad we commonly use extremist terms like 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' to dumb down an issue like this. There's lots of middle ground that people forget about when they start to associate with either term.

In general, I think the moderate Republicans have the best platform on abortion, outlawing it past twenty weeks, and making exceptions for 'special' circumstances.
Porkloin
Posts: 53
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9/27/2014 8:12:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 5:56:21 PM, Praesentya wrote:

In general, I think the moderate Republicans have the best platform on abortion, outlawing it past twenty weeks, and making exceptions for 'special' circumstances.

Vast numbers of Democrats would be fine with that, too. There is a very vocal and active "non-moderate" wing of the Republicans who really don't want to do anything except continuing to chip away at the legality of abortion, and they are not comfortable with 'special circumstance.'

Going clear back to the Roe decision by the Supreme Court, there is the concept of, and direct language supporting that it should be the woman and her doctor who determine what the deal is, and the objection is that basically anything could be relating to the "health of the woman," on a physical or mental basis, i.e, restrictions based on that don't necessarily mean anything. I think they do have a point, there.

I'm brand-new at debate.org, and don't really know how much 'thread drift' is favored, allowed, or tolerated, but I think the abortion debate is one of the best - it takes us down to our unprovable assumptions. We all make assumptions, and between two people, it's where the assumptions diverge that the arguing begins. Apologies if I'm going too wide here.

I do think the original question has merit. There is a prevalent strain of 'pro-life' where it's a basic Christian resistance to both abortion (despite the Bible being essentially silent on it) and homosexuality. To ask if there is anyone here who is against abortion (even as general as that is) while supporting gay marriage is entirely reasonable.

Personally, I would put the restrictions at 24 weeks gestation. I base this on gestational development and the developing 'personhood' of the unborn - obviously this is my own opinion. A very tiny percentage of abortions occur after this point, even when totally unrestricted, so in a sense it's not that big a deal in the context of the whole "yes or no" abortion argument. I would gladly agree to 20 weeks, with exceptions for when there is grave risk to the woman - also a very rare thing. If the 'pro-lifers' were happy with this, then it's good with me. That really is not the case, though - they want a blanket ban, perhaps with exceptions for rape, and/or for stuff like ectopic pregnancies, where there is real danger to the woman and no realistic chance of survival for the fetus.