Total Posts:27|Showing Posts:1-27
Jump to topic:

Women's rights?

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:40:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:35:29 PM, comoncents wrote:
Where did it really root in america?

Doubt it. I think people ought not to underestimate the ancients.

I think it was religion that started it in the 2nd Awakening.

I think most religions view women as inferior.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (I Timothy 2:11-14)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:42:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:40:47 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:35:29 PM, comoncents wrote:
Where did it really root in america?

Doubt it. I think people ought not to underestimate the ancients.


No I was asking what started it in america.

I think it was religion that started it in the 2nd Awakening.

I think most religions view women as inferior.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Not during the 2nd Great Awakening.
The 2nd G.A also gave way to modern christianity...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:48:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:42:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
No I was asking what started it in america.

Not religion, lol.

Not during the 2nd Great Awakening.
The 2nd G.A also gave way to modern christianity...

Lulz again. I would say why, but I'm trying really hard not to derail this thread.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:49:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:44:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
How on Earth do you think religion was the root of women's rights?

The 2nd Great Awakening stirred it up.
Made women think about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:50:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I always thought that it was just a bunch of pissed off b!tches on their periods... lol kidding ... INB4 somebody actually takes me seriously and gets pissed off (or happens to be on their period) XD

ok. I'll stop
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:50:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:48:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:42:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
No I was asking what started it in america.

Not religion, lol.

Not during the 2nd Great Awakening.
The 2nd G.A also gave way to modern christianity...

Lulz again. I would say why, but I'm trying really hard not to derail this thread.

Are you familiar with the history of with http://en.wikipedia.org...
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:51:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:50:08 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
I always thought that it was just a bunch of pissed off b!tches on their periods... lol kidding ... INB4 somebody actually takes me seriously and gets pissed off (or happens to be on their period) XD

ok. I'll stop

HaHaHa
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:59:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:50:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:48:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:42:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
No I was asking what started it in america.

Not religion, lol.

Not during the 2nd Great Awakening.
The 2nd G.A also gave way to modern christianity...

Lulz again. I would say why, but I'm trying really hard not to derail this thread.

Are you familiar with the history of with http://en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think modern history is relevant to Geo... unless of course it was written by a conspiracy theorist

Although I'm pretty sure this 2nd G.A (and probably religion in general) really had little to do with it. Especially since it ended in the mid 1800's by which time I'm near positive that women didn't have many rights, or much else going for them.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 7:59:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

What did the Second Great Awakening achieve if verses like this are still found in modern religious texts?:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Did they "inspire" women to ignore verses such as these?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:00:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:59:33 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
I don't think modern history is relevant to Geo... unless of course it was written by a conspiracy theorist

Yeah, pretty much.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:02:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

To think that they had rights? Then you can't ask when in America was it started because it didn't start in America. It goes much farther back than that.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:06:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:59:33 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:50:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:48:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:42:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
No I was asking what started it in america.

Not religion, lol.

Not during the 2nd Great Awakening.
The 2nd G.A also gave way to modern christianity...

Lulz again. I would say why, but I'm trying really hard not to derail this thread.

Are you familiar with the history of with http://en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think modern history is relevant to Geo... unless of course it was written by a conspiracy theorist

Although I'm pretty sure this 2nd G.A (and probably religion in general) really had little to do with it. Especially since it ended in the mid 1800's by which time I'm near positive that women didn't have many rights, or much else going for them.

I have not studied in a year but let me see if I can map it out with out getting it incorrect.

The 1st G.A was about predestination.
(puritan way of life)
In the predestination phase women where low on the pool b/c that is what was taught.
Preacher, man, women, children, servants.

The 2nd G.A was inspired by the American Revolution and was about "free will".
(more of a modern religious approach)
Before this point they did not believe in free will.

Ok, the 2nd G.A made the http://en.wikipedia.org... happen.
The first account where women did mans work and men did women's work in a community that believed in sharing.
The men were equal to women as they could achieve perfectionism.

Women had rights.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:07:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:59:49 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

What did the Second Great Awakening achieve if verses like this are still found in modern religious texts?:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Did they "inspire" women to ignore verses such as these?

Yes.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:10:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:02:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

To think that they had rights? Then you can't ask when in America was it started because it didn't start in America. It goes much farther back than that.

Where did it really root in america?

Look again. I asked "where did it really root in america?"

I did not claim that it started in america but I do claim that it was non existent till the time I expressed.
It was the first account in america that showed women that they could live in america with rights.

I would like someone to give me a rebuttal.
That is why I asked the question.

I did not start this to educate. I started it to learn.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:16:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:10:59 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 8:02:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

To think that they had rights? Then you can't ask when in America was it started because it didn't start in America. It goes much farther back than that.



Where did it really root in america?

Look again. I asked "where did it really root in america?"

I know. It did not root in America. It rooted early and came to America then expanded at certain times such as the time you propose.

I did not claim that it started in america but I do claim that it was non existent till the time I expressed.

I don't think that is correct. There were tons of feminist ideals before then. It makes no sense to say that none of them ever bothered to think they have rights. It's part of human nature to think otherwise. Just look at the French Revolution, that was very feminist.
It was the first account in america that showed women that they could live in america with rights.

I would like someone to give me a rebuttal.
That is why I asked the question.

I did not start this to educate. I started it to learn.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:21:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:16:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't think that is correct. There were tons of feminist ideals before then. It makes no sense to say that none of them ever bothered to think they have rights. It's part of human nature to think otherwise. Just look at the French Revolution, that was very feminist.

Maybe your right.
Maybe I mean... It was not expressed and entertained until than.

You are right, actually. Women did take charge in the puritan time.
I remember reading court cases to that account.

Maybe I mean, women's rights as we know it today.
Women having the ability to do what is considered a "man's job", with the man still being present, and vice-versa.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:23:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:21:39 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 8:16:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't think that is correct. There were tons of feminist ideals before then. It makes no sense to say that none of them ever bothered to think they have rights. It's part of human nature to think otherwise. Just look at the French Revolution, that was very feminist.

Maybe your right.
Maybe I mean... It was not expressed and entertained until than.

You are right, actually. Women did take charge in the puritan time.
I remember reading court cases to that account.

Maybe I mean, women's rights as we know it today.
Women having the ability to do what is considered a "man's job", with the man still being present, and vice-versa.

And women becoming an "equal" to man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:24:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:21:39 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 8:16:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't think that is correct. There were tons of feminist ideals before then. It makes no sense to say that none of them ever bothered to think they have rights. It's part of human nature to think otherwise. Just look at the French Revolution, that was very feminist.

Maybe your right.
Maybe I mean... It was not expressed and entertained until than.

You are right, actually. Women did take charge in the puritan time.
I remember reading court cases to that account.

Maybe I mean, women's rights as we know it today.
Women having the ability to do what is considered a "man's job", with the man still being present, and vice-versa.

So then maybe a more proper way to phrase it is not what women felt about women's rights but how men felt.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:41:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 8:06:54 PM, comoncents wrote:
I have not studied in a year but let me see if I can map it out with out getting it incorrect.

The 1st G.A was about predestination.
(puritan way of life)
In the predestination phase women where low on the pool b/c that is what was taught.
Preacher, man, women, children, servants.

The 2nd G.A was inspired by the American Revolution and was about "free will".
(more of a modern religious approach)
Before this point they did not believe in free will.

Free will wouldn't have meant much for women at that time since they were in no place to be making any kind of choices with respect to things like politics and social norms anyway.

Ok, the 2nd G.A made the http://en.wikipedia.org... happen.
The first account where women did mans work and men did women's work in a community that believed in sharing.
The men were equal to women as they could achieve perfectionism.

Women had rights.

This was on an extremely small scale and really doesn't prove anything. Furthermore, this particular group was nothing more than a break-away sect of Christianity which by today's standards could be compared to the WBC or the crazies at Waco. This would have had little to no effect on women's right as a whole across the country.

It may be that this particular phase of history allowed for the necessary changes in human thought and philosophy that was needed for women's rights movements to gain any steam, but you are in essence attributing the development of space flight to the Wright brothers.

I would say that all modern feminism and women's rights shouldn't be traced back farther than the first suffrage movements in the late 1800s
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2010 8:41:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:55:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/2/2010 7:53:16 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Womens rights mainly came out of the progressive era. The reason being because most women were progressive so the progressive regime did everything to give them more of a say in society. They did a good thing for bad reasons.

NoNoNo.
Where was it rooted.
What inspired women to think that they had rights.

Your to late, historically.
I can trace it to the The Second Great Awakening (1790–1840s)

"Gender roles
As a goal subsidiary to achieving religious and social revivalism, Noyes believed that one of the major purposes of the Community was to regenerate relations between men and women, which he believed to be deteriorating in the larger society. In theory, males and females had equality and equal voice in the governance of the community."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2010 12:21:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hm, I don't know anything about the "Second Great Awakening" having a part in the evolution of women's rights, but "first wave feminism" in the US was built around the movement that preceded it in Britain and Europe at-large, but especially Britain. Temperance movement were certainly a big vehicle for women to have their voice heard, but I somehow doubt it was the cause of it.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2010 4:53:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/2/2010 7:35:29 PM, comoncents wrote:
Where did it really root in america?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"The mission of Lucifer was, according to Harman, "to help woman to break the chains that for ages have bound her to the rack of man-made law, spiritual, economic, industrial, social and especially sexual, believing that until woman is roused to a sense of her own responsibility on all lines of human endeavor, and especially on lines of her special field, that of reproduction of the race, there will be little if any real advancement toward a higher and truer civilization.""
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
collegekitchen9
Posts: 108
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2010 8:03:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Women have rights?
Collegekitchen/askbob said: "we should monitor politicians spending"

Volkov responded "wat controlling and monitoring government spendin is zactly like Big Brother!"

: : At 3/30/2010 6:44:38 AM, belle wrote:
: : : At 3/29/2010 7:19:19 PM, wjmelements wrote:
: : : I think I have an irregular heartbeat.
: :
: : you're going to die.

: At 4/3/2010 6:33:02 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: I think people care about what I think

no