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Conservatism is inherently immoral

Rob1Billion
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4/4/2010 10:51:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Conservatism is immoral and outrageous. Reasoning:

1) Conservatives persecute gays - Really, who do we care who other people have sex with or marry? As long as we keep it monogamous, so that people can't be married to multiple people to somehow dupe the system, controlling who people can marry is overbearing and manipulative.

2) Conservatives persecute Mexicans - This country used to be a melting pot, now we are telling people they can't enter. Didn't we destroy the native population here to start this country? What moral grounds do we have to deny Mexicans the right to come in here and work to build our economy? Or are we so spiteful about our liberal policies that we just don't want them to reap the benefits of services like welfare and disability...

3) Conservatives persecute non-Christians - Many conservatives, John McCain for example, claim America for Christianity and promote the USA as "a Christian Nation." So, if I'm not a Christian, I'm not part of the club I guess...

4) Conservatives persecute blacks and drug users - Sure, drug users are making their own decisions, and get whatever they deserve, we've heard that argument before. But look at the statistics: more whites use crack then blacks do, yet blacks are sent to jail 13x the rate of whites. The WoD is a tool to oppress our scary ebonic black friends, and gives the police a powerful profiling tool to use to keep blacks - not drug users - off the streets. Furthermore, keeping drugs illegal has no logical or moral grounding. It is incredibly expensive and ineffective, and actually ensures that drugs are more readily available then they otherwise would be. Why are we keeping druglords in business?

5) Conservatives persecute women - So if a woman gets pregnant, the state now has a vested interest in her fetus and can tell her what to do with her body? I thought conservatives were trying to keep the government OUT of our affairs? Pro-life has NEVER been about abortion; it is about religion. If it were about logic, I suppose there would be no correlation between faith and pro-life status...

6) Conservatives persecute the poor - We, as citizens, provide enough resources to the economy to support ourselves many times over. The surplus should theoretically go to the government for roads, services, etc. Instead, the top 1% of the population hordes 95% of the resources, and now many are arguing the poor shouldn't even get basic health care. Now that we have made progress in health care, we need to start taking back our pensions, social security, and start protecting our environment and natural resources from the forces of greed that are destroying it.

7) Conservatives persecute everyone - Anti-environmental endeavors are destroying this country and this planet. The vast majority of all the greatest scientists are in complete agreement that Climate Change is real and we need to start acting now. Conservatives are dragging their feet and stopping legislation that would protect our water resources, our air, and our lands from being degraded. They give economic arguments and whine about business, but it is overwhelmingly clear that the economy can only survive if our resources are protected and the tragedy of the commons is not realized.

How can conservatives justify their ideals? They are now re-writing history and science books to reflect their beliefs in Texas, on top of their disgusting media practices to keep people in line like sheep and not protest while they have their way with this country.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Korashk
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4/4/2010 11:24:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com...

You fail at trolling.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
PoeJoe
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4/4/2010 11:30:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Libertarians, who dominate the right on this site, would pretty much agree with you on all your points besides two and six, and for some maybe seven.

In any case, Rob1Billion isn't trolling. He's just really liberal. (:
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Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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4/4/2010 11:53:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well that sucks. It's one thing to be a troll, but to be an unsuccessful one at that... It's pretty low, really. I'm nervous of asking to what end I am failing... Will I fail to elicit responses to my argument? Will I be run-through by my adversaries as they tear my arguments to shreds? Or perhaps I am failing so much at trolling that I am not trolling at all. At any rate, present your argument so that I may assure myself that these mad thoughts running through my head can actually stand the rigor of debate. We will find justice together through synthesis of ideas and emerge as enlightened individuals yet. What do you say, man!
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Korashk
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4/5/2010 12:29:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/4/2010 11:53:42 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Well that sucks. It's one thing to be a troll, but to be an unsuccessful one at that... It's pretty low, really. I'm nervous of asking to what end I am failing... Will I fail to elicit responses to my argument? Will I be run-through by my adversaries as they tear my arguments to shreds? Or perhaps I am failing so much at trolling that I am not trolling at all. At any rate, present your argument so that I may assure myself that these mad thoughts running through my head can actually stand the rigor of debate. We will find justice together through synthesis of ideas and emerge as enlightened individuals yet. What do you say, man!

When I read this it looked to me like you were making broad and derogatory statements about an entire ideology, even though most of your main points only apply with any significance to the most extreme observers of the idology that you are criticizing. That's what trolling is, even if it was unintentional.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/5/2010 12:42:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/4/2010 11:53:42 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Well that sucks. It's one thing to be a troll, but to be an unsuccessful one at that... It's pretty low, really. I'm nervous of asking to what end I am failing... Will I fail to elicit responses to my argument? Will I be run-through by my adversaries as they tear my arguments to shreds? Or perhaps I am failing so much at trolling that I am not trolling at all. At any rate, present your argument so that I may assure myself that these mad thoughts running through my head can actually stand the rigor of debate. We will find justice together through synthesis of ideas and emerge as enlightened individuals yet. What do you say, man!

Just wanted to say this was a smart and entertaining comeback.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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4/5/2010 9:17:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
When I read this it looked to me like you were making broad and derogatory statements about an entire ideology, even though most of your main points only apply with any significance to the most extreme observers of the idology that you are criticizing. That's what trolling is, even if it was unintentional.

Well, in a normal chatroom, that might be a problem. DDO is more sophisticated, however; it is more dynamic. If I were simply make brash statements with no reasoning, like Banker or DATCMOTO, I would be inundated with examples to prove me wrong, and quickly defeated. But I gave several contentions to define and back my argument up, which as of yet remain unchallenged. Won't you challenge just one? I can tell you want to...
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
mattrodstrom
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4/5/2010 9:17:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/4/2010 10:51:00 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Pro-life has NEVER been about abortion; it is about religion.

I'm against late term abortions and I am quite far from being religious.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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4/5/2010 9:23:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 9:17:32 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/4/2010 10:51:00 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Pro-life has NEVER been about abortion; it is about religion.

I'm against late term abortions and I am quite far from being religious.

Babies of said development are already treated as people when they are born pre-mature. Not doing so for their un-birthed counterparts begs for an answer to the question: why?
Their is no good answer. When people attempt to explain "why" they invariably claim that the babe is not deserving of rights because factors which lie outside of the physiological system in consideration (such as that system being dependent). Being that a person is deserving of rights based upon their being a person, That is, based upon their own internal characteristics. Arguments which claim outside factors as justification for the claim that such a babe has no rights are not reasonable.

http://www.debate.org...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rob1Billion
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4/5/2010 10:29:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I believe the doctor should have the discretion to make the judgment on whether or not the pregnancy is too late for a reasonably ethical abortion; and I would hope that if some woman walked in with a big stomache and said she wanted to abort that the doctors wouldn't go along with it! So I imagine I am in somewhat of an agreement with you; doctors, who are the experts in this matter, should be given the discretion to make the decision. I doubt a non-religious doctor is going to have much of a problem with a woman who is a week or two in and wants to abort, however; it is, after all, just a minute bundle of cells and is not a person.

My point needs refinement; I am attacking those who believe that personhood starts at conception and therefore that a woman holds a full-fledged person/human from day one of the pregnancy. This is nonsensical and leaves no room for common sense; common sense would indicate that a woman 6 months in, for example, is not doing the right thing by aborting. The real dispute here is about the laws governing this; I don't believe the government should get inside the womb; let the doctors make the decision and leave it alone. On the same note, I don't think a woman should have the absolute right to make the doctors give her the abortion in late-term either.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
PoeJoe
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4/5/2010 11:04:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 12:29:14 AM, Korashk wrote:
When I read this it looked to me like you were making broad and derogatory statements about an entire ideology, even though most of your main points only apply with any significance to the most extreme observers of the idology that you are criticizing. That's what trolling is, even if it was unintentional.

No.

Trolling is when you write something you don't necessarily believe just to get a rise out of a forum. In DDO's case, the point of these forums is to get a rise out of one another. But Rob actually believes what he is saying, so it isn't trolling.
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comoncents
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4/5/2010 11:20:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/4/2010 10:51:00 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Conservatism is immoral and outrageous. Reasoning:

1) Conservatives persecute gays - Really, who do we care who other people have sex with or marry? As long as we keep it monogamous, so that people can't be married to multiple people to somehow dupe the system, controlling who people can marry is overbearing and manipulative.


Not all of them.

2) Conservatives persecute Mexicans - This country used to be a melting pot, now we are telling people they can't enter. Didn't we destroy the native population here to start this country? What moral grounds do we have to deny Mexicans the right to come in here and work to build our economy? Or are we so spiteful about our liberal policies that we just don't want them to reap the benefits of services like welfare and disability...


What? Your crazy. They are Mexicans. That means they have their own country. Work illegally is immoral, not trying to stop it.

3) Conservatives persecute non-Christians - Many conservatives, John McCain for example, claim America for Christianity and promote the USA as "a Christian Nation." So, if I'm not a Christian, I'm not part of the club I guess...


That is not true. Individual conservative do but so do some Individual liberals.

4) Conservatives persecute blacks and drug users - Sure, drug users are making their own decisions, and get whatever they deserve, we've heard that argument before. But look at the statistics: more whites use crack then blacks do, yet blacks are sent to jail 13x the rate of whites. The WoD is a tool to oppress our scary ebonic black friends, and gives the police a powerful profiling tool to use to keep blacks - not drug users - off the streets. Furthermore, keeping drugs illegal has no logical or moral grounding. It is incredibly expensive and ineffective, and actually ensures that drugs are more readily available then they otherwise would be. Why are we keeping druglords in business?


Conservatives do not do these things.
Your logic is flawed. Just because an individual who claims something opposes something does not mean they speck for all conservatives.

5) Conservatives persecute women - So if a woman gets pregnant, the state now has a vested interest in her fetus and can tell her what to do with her body? I thought conservatives were trying to keep the government OUT of our affairs? Pro-life has NEVER been about abortion; it is about religion. If it were about logic, I suppose there would be no correlation between faith and pro-life status...


Again, you are crazy.
This post should say, "Some people are inherently immoral, conservative, liberal, any group."

6) Conservatives persecute the poor - We, as citizens, provide enough resources to the economy to support ourselves many times over. The surplus should theoretically go to the government for roads, services, etc. Instead, the top 1% of the population hordes 95% of the resources, and now many are arguing the poor shouldn't even get basic health care. Now that we have made progress in health care, we need to start taking back our pensions, social security, and start protecting our environment and natural resources from the forces of greed that are destroying it.


You call it persecution we call it equality.
Everyone is equal to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

7) Conservatives persecute everyone - Anti-environmental endeavors are destroying this country and this planet. The vast majority of all the greatest scientists are in complete agreement that Climate Change is real and we need to start acting now. Conservatives are dragging their feet and stopping legislation that would protect our water resources, our air, and our lands from being degraded. They give economic arguments and whine about business, but it is overwhelmingly clear that the economy can only survive if our resources are protected and the tragedy of the commons is not realized.


Again, this is dumb.

How can conservatives justify their ideals? They are now re-writing history and science books to reflect their beliefs in Texas, on top of their disgusting media practices to keep people in line like sheep and not protest while they have their way with this country.

This post should say, "Some people are inherently immoral, conservative, liberal, any group."



Dumb assumptions.
comoncents
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4/5/2010 11:22:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 11:04:10 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 4/5/2010 12:29:14 AM, Korashk wrote:
When I read this it looked to me like you were making broad and derogatory statements about an entire ideology, even though most of your main points only apply with any significance to the most extreme observers of the idology that you are criticizing. That's what trolling is, even if it was unintentional.

No.

Trolling is when you write something you don't necessarily believe just to get a rise out of a forum. In DDO's case, the point of these forums is to get a rise out of one another. But Rob actually believes what he is saying, so it isn't trolling.

I could believe santa claus still exists... does not make it true.

Santa Claus is as far fetched as this thread.
PoeJoe
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4/5/2010 11:26:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 11:22:27 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 4/5/2010 11:04:10 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 4/5/2010 12:29:14 AM, Korashk wrote:
When I read this it looked to me like you were making broad and derogatory statements about an entire ideology, even though most of your main points only apply with any significance to the most extreme observers of the idology that you are criticizing. That's what trolling is, even if it was unintentional.

No.

Trolling is when you write something you don't necessarily believe just to get a rise out of a forum. In DDO's case, the point of these forums is to get a rise out of one another. But Rob actually believes what he is saying, so it isn't trolling.

I could believe santa claus still exists... does not make it true.

Santa Claus is as far fetched as this thread.

If you actually believed in Santa Clause and you created a thread about him, that wouldn't be considered trolling.

If, however, you didn't actually believe in Santa Clause but you created a thread about him anyway in the hopes of getting a rise out of these forums, then that would be considered trolling...though it'd be pretty fail trolling, imo.
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Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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4/5/2010 11:51:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
1) Conservatives persecute gays...

Not all of them.

So your rebuttal is that although conservatives are immoral for persecuting gays, some don't, so that somehow makes it OK. Gotcha.

2) Conservatives persecute Mexicans...

What? Your crazy. They are Mexicans. That means they have their own country. Work illegally is immoral, not trying to stop it.

Our ancestors had their own country yet they chose to come here. Should they not have? Maybe we should pack our bags and head back to the old country, and leave the American Indians with this country. Furthermore, if they are made legal, then your argument is moot because they are no longer illegal. So making them legal must be your answer to the problem?

3) Conservatives persecute non-Christians...

That is not true. Individual conservative do but so do some Individual liberals.

If a liberal believes America is a Christian nation, then I would not consider that person a liberal in that respect. People can be mixed in ideology, and just because someone doesn't fit all 7 of these criteria doesn't mean they are exempt.

4) Conservatives persecute blacks and drug users...

Conservatives do not do these things.
Your logic is flawed. Just because an individual who claims something opposes something does not mean they speck for all conservatives.

Conservatives support staunch drug policy. If they do not, they are liberal in that respect and I have no quarrel with them.

5) Conservatives persecute women...

Again, you are crazy.
This post should say, "Some people are inherently immoral, conservative, liberal, any group."

Not really. If a Democrat is pro-life, then they are not 100% democrat. Again, you are hiding behind the fact that a person may call him or herself a liberal or democrat and be pro-life; I am saying that they are not really a lib/dem in that case.

6) Conservatives persecute the poor...

You call it persecution we call it equality.
Everyone is equal to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Yes I know the talking points. Your idea of pursuit of happiness is one guy with a private golf course driving a ferrari and another guy burning newspapers in a 55 gallon drum to stay warm.

7) Conservatives persecute everyone...

Again, this is dumb.

Well played, sir.

This post should say, "Some people are inherently immoral, conservative, liberal, any group."

It should say "just because you call yourself liberal and believe in conservative principles, doesn't mean you are a liberal and therefore justify all the outrageous things that conservatives believe in."

Dumb assumptions.

Dumb rebuttals.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Ragnar_Rahl
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4/5/2010 11:58:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Babies of said development are already treated as people when they are born pre-mature. Not doing so for their un-birthed counterparts begs for an answer to the question: why?
First, not sure I'd call just-born babies people, the science is still out on that. But if you do prove they have rationality, even "treating them as people" doesn't forbid forcing them to GTFO of that womb. A burglar is a person, but I force him to GTFO of my house.

We, as citizens, provide enough resources to the economy to support ourselves many times over.
We provide nothing, and an economy is not a recipient. I provide some things to some people. You provide some things to other people. You and I our separate, the products I make are separate from the ones you make, and the recipients of my products are separate from the recipients of yours.

The surplus should theoretically go to the government for roads, services, etc.
No. The government did not create that "surplus".

Instead, the top 1% of the population hordes 95% of the resources,
Because they produce more yet.

and now many are arguing the poor shouldn't even get basic health care. Now that we have made progress in health care, we need to start taking back our pensions, social security, and start protecting our environment and natural resources from the forces of greed that are destroying it.
We need no such thing. If you are unproductive, you might. But most importantly this fails to establish:

6) Conservatives persecute the poor -
To "Persecute" involves force. Neither conservatives nor libertarians propose using force merely because someone is poor. Libertarians, and some conservatives, simply favor leaving the poor to their own devices. This is not persecution, rather, the government forcing anything else IS persecution-- of those who are not poor. The lack of persecution involved in "I'm no giving you health care" can be proven by the fact that it is possible to be without health care on a desert island-- and it is not possible to be persecuted on a desert island, since there is no one to persecute you.

economy can only survive if our resources are protected and the tragedy of the commons is not realized.
The "Tragedy of the commons" is a problem caused by socialism and th like, not by conservatism or libertarianism. The solution to the tragedy of the commons is not having things be the "commons"-- i.e., privatization.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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4/5/2010 12:14:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lawl.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Rob1Billion
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4/5/2010 12:30:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
seriously though I am about to hand in this paper at 6pm and I'm probably going to get a "C" on it because I have too few references, it's too short, and not as good as I would have liked. Procrastination is a b1tch. I'll check back tomorrow to posts some rebuttals.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
USAPitBull63
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4/5/2010 3:36:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/4/2010 10:51:00 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Conservatism is immoral and outrageous. Reasoning:

1) Conservatives persecute gays….

There isn't a legal conservative movement to eliminate gay activity. Rather, efforts exist to prevent judicial and legislative activism, particularly against changing the spirit and definitions of certain words and legal actions.

2) Conservatives persecute Mexicans….

Illegal immigrants persecute other Mexicans, and Americans, and American immigration laws. Efforts to thwart illegal immigration are more like self-defense, and everyone has a right to self-defense. It's also defense of those who utilized the correct channels to be here.

3) Conservatives persecute non-Christians - Many conservatives, John McCain for example, claim America for Christianity and promote the USA as "a Christian Nation." So, if I'm not a Christian, I'm not part of the club I guess...

America is a Christian nation. Most Americans are Christian. Most Americans also speak English, and America is considered an English-speaking nation. Does that prohibit everyone who doesn't speak English (particularly on those grounds) from living here, or "being part of the club"? Don't be so dramatic.

4) Conservatives persecute blacks and drug users….

So… only conservatives make and enforce anti-drug laws? And only conservatives sentence drug abusers and -dealers? You start this rant by blaming conservatives, yet you fail to connect conservatives to anything you mention in the next seven lines.

5) Conservatives persecute women….

Chile, please.

Roe v. Wade is a SCOTUS decision, which still holds precedent over all lower courts. Also, you presume that anyone "pro-life" is inherently religious, which is ridiculously ignorant.

6) Conservatives persecute the poor….

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish, and he'll never go hungry again.

7) Conservatives persecute everyone….

a.) I don't know whom you consider "all the greatest scientists," but no consensus exists, or even comes close to existing, among the scientific community regarding Global Warming.

b.) Many conservatives support environmental initiatives. (Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example.) But to kneejerk-support Kyoto and every "green" initiative that claims to be "for our children," for example, is foolish.

c.) The economy can only survive if… the government (the same one you just criticized conservatives for using to control private affairs of citizens) "protect[s]" our "resources"? Fascinating.

How can conservatives justify their ideals? They are now re-writing history and science books to reflect their beliefs in Texas, on top of their disgusting media practices to keep people in line like sheep and not protest while they have their way with this country.

Liberals rewrite history and science books, too, but there's far less uproar. Books that say JFK was one of the best presidents, or that Al Gore is more important to science than to special interest, are just as misleading to today's youth. Thankfully, you get to choose where your kids go to school, so no worries.

Lastly, as for what constitutes trolling, DATC and Banker likely believe what they say, too—yet most users consider them "trolls." So the standard of good intentions canceling the "troll" label seems a double standard, at best.
mongoose
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4/5/2010 8:13:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 3:36:08 PM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
a.) I don't know whom you consider "all the greatest scientists," but no consensus exists, or even comes close to existing, among the scientific community regarding Global Warming.

Al Gore. He is a scientist. He invented teh internetz. Listen to him!

Liberals rewrite history and science books, too, but there's far less uproar. Books that say JFK was one of the best presidents, or that Al Gore is more important to science than to special interest, are just as misleading to today's youth. Thankfully, you get to choose where your kids go to school, so no worries.

You couldn't choose where your kids went to school at one point in history: when the DEMOCRATS forced people to be bussed for as many as two hours a day (both ways) to go to a school where there are more people of the other race. Brilliant. And how many history books mention this? One: The Politically Incorrect Guide To American History
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
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4/5/2010 8:17:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 8:13:53 PM, mongoose wrote:
You couldn't choose where your kids went to school at one point in history: when the DEMOCRATS forced people to be bussed for as many as two hours a day (both ways) to go to a school where there are more people of the other race. Brilliant.

Oh noes, whitey had to go to a school with those dastardly Afro-Americans. The horror! We should have keep them separated, yup yup. 'Cause you know, any white kid around a nig- I can't complete this joke here, but you know what I mean, don't ya, mongoose. ;)
Rob1Billion
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4/5/2010 8:45:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I seemed to have inadvertently deleted my entire response to USApitbull on accident. well suffice to say I completely rebutted all of his points successfully! I'll stop back after midnight to address ragnar and pitbull
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
mattrodstrom
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4/5/2010 8:46:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 11:58:14 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Babies of said development are already treated as people when they are born pre-mature. Not doing so for their un-birthed counterparts begs for an answer to the question: why?
First, not sure I'd call just-born babies people, the science is still out on that. But if you do prove they have rationality, even "treating them as people" doesn't forbid forcing them to GTFO of that womb. A burglar is a person, but I force him to GTFO of my house.

If you, knowing he would necessarily burgalarize (b/c it's his Very Nature), at all invited him in, then you would not be justified in shooting him, or in expelling him to his ensured death which you could easily forsee before having invited him to set up shop.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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4/5/2010 8:54:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 10:29:52 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
I believe the doctor should have the discretion to make the judgment on whether or not the pregnancy is too late for a reasonably ethical abortion; and I would hope that if some woman walked in with a big stomache and said she wanted to abort that the doctors wouldn't go along with it! So I imagine I am in somewhat of an agreement with you; doctors, who are the experts in this matter

Doctors are experts in the field of ethics; specifically in evaluating and measuring the rights of individuals???
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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4/5/2010 9:11:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
1) Conservatives persecute gays….

There isn't a legal conservative movement to eliminate gay activity. Rather, efforts exist to prevent judicial and legislative activism, particularly against changing the spirit and definitions of certain words and legal actions.

You don't have to actively eliminate them to be immoral... Your next sentence is completely lifeless and moot. Reason: you could use it to justify anything. For instance, you could use it to defend keeping blacks as "3/5 citizens..." The problem is that you made it so evasive (to avoid admitting you don't want gays to marry) that it lost all meaning.

2) Conservatives persecute Mexicans….

Illegal immigrants persecute other Mexicans, and Americans, and American immigration laws. Efforts to thwart illegal immigration are more like self-defense, and everyone has a right to self-defense. It's also defense of those who utilized the correct channels to be here.

Self defense? Against what? How are Mexicans persecuting us, exactly?

3) Conservatives persecute non-Christians - Many conservatives, John McCain for example, claim America for Christianity and promote the USA as "a Christian Nation." So, if I'm not a Christian, I'm not part of the club I guess...

America is a Christian nation. Most Americans are Christian. Most Americans also speak English, and America is considered an English-speaking nation. Does that prohibit everyone who doesn't speak English (particularly on those grounds) from living here, or "being part of the club"? Don't be so dramatic.

So, in extension, you believe America is a white nation. Is this what you believe? No wonder you don't want big gov't... If it was bigger, and played by your rules, it would be evil indeed.

4) Conservatives persecute blacks and drug users….

So… only conservatives make and enforce anti-drug laws? And only conservatives sentence drug abusers and -dealers? You start this rant by blaming conservatives, yet you fail to connect conservatives to anything you mention in the next seven lines.

Staunch drug policy is a conservative trait. Drug policy reform/leniency is a liberal trait. If you want to start pointing out conservatives who are fighting for lax drug policy we can do that, but all your going to achieve is pointing out conservatives who have liberal sides to them. I take it your not going to argue that the WoD is keeping drugs in our schools, keeping drug lords in business, and allowing them to kill our citizens?

5) Conservatives persecute women….

Chile, please.

Roe v. Wade is a SCOTUS decision, which still holds precedent over all lower courts. Also, you presume that anyone "pro-life" is inherently religious, which is ridiculously ignorant.

First off, Roe v. Wade is only th posterchild for abortion law. Planned Parenthood v. Casey carries all of the meaningful provisions that define women's rights in this matter. Secondly, the correlation between Christians and pro-life is barely debatable. Who else would grant personhood to a bundle of cells that weigh a billionth of a gram? Third, just because you can blame abortion on the Court doesn't mean conservatives don't support the pro-life movement. If a Democrat is pro-life, then he or she carries a conservative trait.

6) Conservatives persecute the poor….

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish, and he'll never go hungry again.

Nice talking point. Blew me away.

7) Conservatives persecute everyone….

a.) I don't know whom you consider "all the greatest scientists," but no consensus exists, or even comes close to existing, among the scientific community regarding Global Warming.

97% of the world's climate scientists support CC theory. The scientific academies of 19 countries agree that anthropogenic C02 is causing CC. Step into a college and say CC is not real and see what the reaction will be.

b.) Many conservatives support environmental initiatives. (Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example.) But to kneejerk-support Kyoto and every "green" initiative that claims to be "for our children," for example, is foolish.

Conservatives who are not that conservative when it comes to the environment. Kyoto may not have been economically oriented, but we owe it to the planet to make every environmental move we can and smooth out the economics later. The situation is more dire than you realize, and our economy means nothing if the environment continues to worsen.

c.) The economy can only survive if… the government (the same one you just criticized conservatives for using to control private affairs of citizens) "protect[s]" our "resources"? Fascinating.

So who is going to protect it. Volunteers? Business? It has to be the government, whether you have faith in them or not.

How can conservatives justify their ideals? They are now re-writing history and science books to reflect their beliefs in Texas, on top of their disgusting media practices to keep people in line like sheep and not protest while they have their way with this country.

Liberals rewrite history and science books, too, but there's far less uproar. Books that say JFK was one of the best presidents, or that Al Gore is more important to science than to special interest, are just as misleading to today's youth. Thankfully, you get to choose where your kids go to school, so no worries.

Scientists rewrite science books to agree more with science, which happens to support liberals because liberals heed scientists and conservatives don't. Then Conservatives use that fact to turn it into a political issue, and rewrite textbooks to agree with them. Conservatives are so messed up it isn't even funny anymore. There's only so much we can laugh while the country falls apart.

Lastly, as for what constitutes trolling, DATC and Banker likely believe what they say, too—yet most users consider them "trolls." So the standard of good intentions canceling the "troll" label seems a double standard, at best.

If you are accusing me of inciting emotion, then I will accept that. The difference between me and those fools is that I address each point you make systematically, and respond with logic and reason. I'm not just going to ramble on a bunch of BS and tell you your going to hell.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/5/2010 9:28:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/5/2010 11:51:40 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It should say "just because you call yourself liberal and believe in conservative principles, doesn't mean you are a liberal and therefore justify all the outrageous things that conservatives believe in."

this is the core issue. you've demonized all opinions you dislike and labeled them "conservative". it would be nice, wouldn't it , if the world divided neatly into good and evil camps and one could easily brand the evil by their label. unfortunately its not really that simple :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...