Total Posts:54|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

How should we take care of Middle East issue?

AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/1/2014 10:20:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Very very controversial issue for not being very disagreed upon. Most Americans believe we should kill every jihadist out there killing in cold blood. However, are air strikes the ideal solution? People are against "boots on the ground" and others are against "bombing the sh** out of them" so what do you think is the best option? Keep into consideration the very likely result that starts with a WW that could easily become a nightmare.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 12:40:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Force Muslim nations who have the ability (Gulf/Oil States, Turkey, maybe Pakistan), to take care of it (through withholding of money/weapons/diplomatic support).

American and generally Western strikes in Muslim lands, whether good intentioned or not, polarize the Muslim populace against their efforts, and even if only passively, into the hands of radicals.

One various Muslim countries began striking ISIS/Boko on mass, these jihadist groups will lose their most valuable asset; the tacit support/blind-eye of the Muslim people.

Just my thoughts anyway.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
apb4y
Posts: 480
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 5:02:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 12:40:25 AM, HPWKA wrote:
Force Muslim nations who have the ability (Gulf/Oil States, Turkey, maybe Pakistan), to take care of it (through withholding of money/weapons/diplomatic support).

American and generally Western strikes in Muslim lands, whether good intentioned or not, polarize the Muslim populace against their efforts, and even if only passively, into the hands of radicals.

One various Muslim countries began striking ISIS/Boko on mass, these jihadist groups will lose their most valuable asset; the tacit support/blind-eye of the Muslim people.

Just my thoughts anyway.

From what I've read recently, the other Muslim countries are happy to sit back and let America take care of the problem. IS is a threat to them too, remember.

IS is kind of like North Korea, in that nobody likes them and everybody wishes they'd stop stirring up shiit. The difference is that North Korea has nuclear weapons, so nobody dares to attack them.
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 9:10:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
From what I've read recently, the other Muslim countries are happy to sit back and let America take care of the problem. IS is a threat to them too, remember.

IS is kind of like North Korea, in that nobody likes them and everybody wishes they'd stop stirring up shiit. The difference is that North Korea has nuclear weapons, so nobody dares to attack them.

I understand that nobody likes ISYS but I feel as if we can't trust the Muslim countries if we continue to airstrike. We could be one more innocent death away from pissing off the entire Middle East. All it takes is for them to begin propagandizing us as the enemy. That's what ISYS wants; they want the US to retaliate quickly without putting much thought into it, and causing a devastating war. What allies will back us when this happens? After 8 years of the Obama administration, I doubt there is a country that will step in with us. Wouldn't surgical combat operations demonstrate to the good Middle Easterns that we are ISIS' enemy and not theirs?
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 10:25:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We need to simply withdraw our involvement in the Middle East. Our involvement so far has only engendered hatred for the US which in turn led to 9/11.

We need to apologize, step back, and let them handle their own affairs. We will get our oil no matter who controls it.
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 10:39:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 10:25:11 AM, TryingToBeOpenMinded wrote:
We need to simply withdraw our involvement in the Middle East. Our involvement so far has only engendered hatred for the US which in turn led to 9/11.

We need to apologize, step back, and let them handle their own affairs. We will get our oil no matter who controls it

Don't say the United States brought 9/11 on themselves..and you're out of your mind if you think the world wants to see us apologize just after witnessing a beheading every other week. Your proposal is that we sit back and watch, and inevitably this will all just stop?
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 2:40:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 1:39:33 PM, TryingToBeOpenMinded wrote:
What reason do you think 9/11 happened?
I think the radical islamists in the Middle East have always hated the American lifestyle, no matter what we do.
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 3:04:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 2:40:27 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
At 10/2/2014 1:39:33 PM, TryingToBeOpenMinded wrote:
What reason do you think 9/11 happened?
I think the radical islamists in the Middle East have always hated the American lifestyle, no matter what we do.

Adam,

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are clueless on what's going on in the Middle East. It's completely misguided to think that radical islamists in the Middle East hate us because we are rich or we are so successful. There are even more extremist Islamic nations outside of the Middle East like Pakistan and they don't attack us. The Middle East hate us because we have meddled on both sides of conflict for the past 50 years and caused massive bloodshed. And, we have meddled because of oil and the Jewish lobby. It's that simple.

Let me ask you a simple question, have you ever read a simple wiki article on the Middle East conflict? It says it all right there.

But, you're not alone. Most Americans are like you. It's so sad that so many so called educated Americans don't even take the time to read simple neutral articles on the topic. It will literally take 30 minutes of your life. Just wiki it and you will at least have some understanding of what's going on.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 5:23:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 10:25:11 AM, TryingToBeOpenMinded wrote:
We need to simply withdraw our involvement in the Middle East. Our involvement so far has only engendered hatred for the US which in turn led to 9/11.

We need to apologize, step back, and let them handle their own affairs. We will get our oil no matter who controls it.

I agree with you, our actions are in part responsible for 9/11.

The problem is that the 'stable' nations in the Middle East are unlikely to take action. There attitude seems to be, 'America was there last, this is America's mess.' I'm wondering if you think their is a way to incentivize Turkey, or Iran or whomever to step up to the plate.

I also find it interesting people think we need to 'handle' ISIS. There is already an Islamic State in the Middle East that beheads people, its called Saudi Arabia, and we're allies.

TryingToBeOpenMinded, I'm curious about what you think about our involvement in Afghanistan, even though it isn't in the Middle East. Personally, I think we have done that country a lot of good and we need to keep soldiers there to ensure its stability.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2014 6:32:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The idea that Muslim attack the US because they hate our lifestyle is akin to believing the moon is made out of cheese. It may sound cute, but there's little evidence for it.

Its generally true that Muslims antagonize the West, due to the West's role in brutalizing, occupying, and colonizing the Muslim world, usually in pursuit of oil, and to check other regional rivals (Russia).

I'm a little uncomfortable with the term "Jewish" lobby. Israeli lobby would be more accurate, as while its true that Jews are a large part of this lobby, its equally true that evangelical right-wing nut-cases are an even larger part of this lobby. This Israeli lobby has caused problems for Americas relation with the middle-east.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 10:29:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am aware that the US has done its fair share of antagonizing the Middle East, but you are nuts if you think that we'd be delightful allies if we never crossed them. The radical jihadists out there are a violent people. The US made the mistake of throwing gas in the fire, but 9/11 should not be viewed as America's fault 100%.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 11:16:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 10:29:31 AM, AdamEsk wrote:
I am aware that the US has done its fair share of antagonizing the Middle East, but you are nuts if you think that we'd be delightful allies if we never crossed them. The radical jihadists out there are a violent people. The US made the mistake of throwing gas in the fire, but 9/11 should not be viewed as America's fault 100%.

Yeah, but 9/11 was not really anybody's fault 100%.

Osama Bin Laden was as much an American as he was an disgruntled Arab.

Also, the plot to fly planes was not a plot by the Taliban. The Taliban said no to Bin Laden when he first showed up. It was only a handful of disgruntled Taliban rejects that agreed. The radical jihadists out there are about .001% of the billion muslims on earth.

If about 12 people out of these millions and millions decided to fly a plane hollywood style into new york city who do you blame?

Door no. 1: Afghanistan (plus taliban)
Door no. 2: One Arab with an Agenda (Osama Bin Ladin)
Door no. 3: Americans.

Trick question? Ans: None of the above.

Now for some reason you chose door no. 4 that is the whole Muslim world.

Now do you know why we blame ALL Americans for ALL our problems in return. Tit for tat, biatch.

I think the radical islamists in the Middle East have always hated the American lifestyle, no matter what we do.

Puh-leeze, do you think the taliban actually have television to "see" the American Lifestyle. The live in the mountains and caves. As a muslim living in America, I find your lifestyle pretty constricted. Fresh off the boat, I thought it would be all hollywood and bitches. But America is just plain white trash. What the heck life-style are you talking about?
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 12:39:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, the plot to fly planes was not a plot by the Taliban. The Taliban said no to Bin Laden when he first showed up. It was only a handful of disgruntled Taliban rejects that agreed. The radical jihadists out there are about .001% of the billion muslims on earth.

If about 12 people out of these millions and millions decided to fly a plane hollywood style into new york city who do you blame?

Door no. 1: Afghanistan (plus taliban)
Door no. 2: One Arab with an Agenda (Osama Bin Ladin)
Door no. 3: Americans.

Trick question? Ans: None of the above.

Now for some reason you chose door no. 4 that is the whole Muslim world.
I am in no way blaming the entire Muslim world. I don't have a problem with peaceful Muslims, I've got a problem with the violent radicals. You should too.

I think the radical islamists in the Middle East have always hated the American lifestyle, no matter what we do.

Puh-leeze, do you think the taliban actually have television to "see" the American Lifestyle. The live in the mountains and caves. As a muslim living in America, I find your lifestyle pretty constricted. Fresh off the boat, I thought it would be all hollywood and bitches. But America is just plain white trash. What the heck life-style are you talking about?

I'm sure they propagandize America just as much as we propagandize them! Thats what people do when they can't get along. They think we're the enemy because of what people tell them just like we do. I suppose you think it is time to just pay our dues and let them do what they want to us?
fazz
Posts: 1,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 12:49:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 12:39:55 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
Also, the plot to fly planes was not a plot by the Taliban. The Taliban said no to Bin Laden when he first showed up. It was only a handful of disgruntled Taliban rejects that agreed. The radical jihadists out there are about .001% of the billion muslims on earth.

If about 12 people out of these millions and millions decided to fly a plane hollywood style into new york city who do you blame?

Door no. 1: Afghanistan (plus taliban)
Door no. 2: One Arab with an Agenda (Osama Bin Ladin)
Door no. 3: Americans.

Trick question? Ans: None of the above.

Now for some reason you chose door no. 4 that is the whole Muslim world.

I am in no way blaming the entire Muslim world. I don't have a problem with peaceful Muslims,

No dude. I have no problem with Saudi Arabia and their Sharia law bull-crap. Welcome to the third world, its like the deep web: you could lose yourself in how big it is?

I've got a problem with the violent radicals. You should too.

No. I dont have a problem with radicals. I will tell you why?

The two most violent radical groups are Al-Qaeda and ISIS. Both, AQ and IS are directly related to where the US has invaded. Fundamentalism (not terror) occurs in three places in the world: Iraq Iran and Afghanistan, compared to say Turkey where muslims wear bikinis... These three places are all victims of US foreign policy and Oil Exploration.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

I think the radical islamists in the Middle East have always hated the American lifestyle, no matter what we do.

Puh-leeze, do you think the taliban actually have television to "see" the American Lifestyle. The live in the mountains and caves. As a muslim living in America, I find your lifestyle pretty constricted. Fresh off the boat, I thought it would be all hollywood and bitches. But America is just plain white trash. What the heck life-style are you talking about?

I'm sure they propagandize America just as much as we propagandize them! Thats what people do when they can't get along. They think we're the enemy because of what people tell them just like we do. I suppose you think it is time to just pay our dues and let them do what they want to us?

Yes.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 12:58:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To answer your second part of the question. The answer is No.

I think we should blow ISIS sky-high.
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 3:18:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 5:23:39 PM, Praesentya wrote:
At 10/2/2014 10:25:11 AM, TryingToBeOpenMinded wrote:
We need to simply withdraw our involvement in the Middle East. Our involvement so far has only engendered hatred for the US which in turn led to 9/11.

We need to apologize, step back, and let them handle their own affairs. We will get our oil no matter who controls it.

I agree with you, our actions are in part responsible for 9/11.

The problem is that the 'stable' nations in the Middle East are unlikely to take action. There attitude seems to be, 'America was there last, this is America's mess.' I'm wondering if you think their is a way to incentivize Turkey, or Iran or whomever to step up to the plate.

I also find it interesting people think we need to 'handle' ISIS. There is already an Islamic State in the Middle East that beheads people, its called Saudi Arabia, and we're allies.

TryingToBeOpenMinded, I'm curious about what you think about our involvement in Afghanistan, even though it isn't in the Middle East. Personally, I think we have done that country a lot of good and we need to keep soldiers there to ensure its stability.

I'm glad you're someone who understands the issues. It seems so rare today. (Adam, I'm sorry for calling you out but you need to at least read about what's going on instead of blaming another country for what the US did.)

But, I disagree with you when you say that we are only partly responsible for 9/11. I would say that we are mostly responsible for it. (I have a hunch you agree with me but it's unpolitical to say it. You'll get people like Adam, clamoring for your head.)

With respect to Afghanistan, I also think we should have never gone in there. You mentioned all the good that we did. I completely agree with you. We've created roads and schools and liberated a people from strict, tyrannical rule. However, the people in Afghanistan don't see it that way. They still hate us. They fought years against the USSR and won but are now occupied by the meddling Americans. They see a US that goes into any country they want for fickle reasons, usually for oil and to help israel. Countless Afghans have died in the last few years and correctly believe that the US is the cause of it.

So, for this reason, I say we should have never gone in. It reinforces every country's perception of us. We can do whatever we want. We can take whatever we want. And, we do this for our own selfish reasons.

Instead, let political evolution take its natural course without our meddling. China, USSR, Vietnam...they all eventually moved towards capitalism because they couldn't deny the truth that it works. Even Cuba or North Korea will eventually become dismantled. It takes one dictator's heir that isn't selfish. In USSR, it was Gorbachev. In China, it was Deng Xiaoping. They are both the equivalent of our George Washington. I don't think people realize how great these people are. They could have been kings, living in a world of luxury and power and banging hot chicks. But, they gave the power back to their people. It's so beautiful and restores my faith in humans as a species (even though I see so much evil every day).

So, I doubt North Korea will dismantle while Kim Jong-un is around. He's got too much control. But, we need to hope that his son who will assume power will be a George Washington who will decide to do the right thing. We are seeing something like this in Raul Castro of Cuba. He's taken control and it looks like he's bringing change in Cuba!

I think the best thing to do is be nice to countries like North Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, etc. Invite the leader's sons and daughters to our countries and help them see the beauty of capitalism and democracy. So, when they go back, they will the ones to bring change, not us.
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 3:25:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 10:29:31 AM, AdamEsk wrote:
I am aware that the US has done its fair share of antagonizing the Middle East, but you are nuts if you think that we'd be delightful allies if we never crossed them. The radical jihadists out there are a violent people. The US made the mistake of throwing gas in the fire, but 9/11 should not be viewed as America's fault 100%.

Fair share of antagonizing?! What other country has meddled like we have? We've propped up dictators who've oppressed and murdered their own people. Then, a decade later, we support the other side. War ensues which causes millions of deaths! They hate us for this. Imagine if the US was divided and Russia kept supplying arms to one side and then the other, causing massive casualties. You would want Russia's head on a platter.

I applaud you for at least seeing the other side a little bit because it takes a man to admit they are wrong. But, you need to take it a step further. You've gotta admit we really screwed up here.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 6:16:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:32:17 PM, HPWKA wrote:
The idea that Muslim attack the US because they hate our lifestyle is akin to believing the moon is made out of cheese. It may sound cute, but there's little evidence for it.

Its generally true that Muslims antagonize the West, due to the West's role in brutalizing, occupying, and colonizing the Muslim world, usually in pursuit of oil, and to check other regional rivals (Russia).

I'm a little uncomfortable with the term "Jewish" lobby. Israeli lobby would be more accurate, as while its true that Jews are a large part of this lobby, its equally true that evangelical right-wing nut-cases are an even larger part of this lobby. This Israeli lobby has caused problems for Americas relation with the middle-east.

And what "problems" do you refer to exactly? The discussion is about Islamic militant groups and what (if any) action the U.S and other western allies should adopt in fighting them.

Stay on topic.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 6:48:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm a little uncomfortable with the term "Jewish" lobby. Israeli lobby would be more accurate, as while its true that Jews are a large part of this lobby, its equally true that evangelical right-wing nut-cases are an even larger part of this lobby. This Israeli lobby has caused problems for Americas relation with the middle-east.


And what "problems" do you refer to exactly?

Many attacks on the US and our interests have been carried out by jihadist groups, who almost always use America's unwavering support for the Israeli occupation, as one of the prime justifications for their attack.

In an effort to keep surrounding Arab/Muslim states from attacking Israel after it ethnically cleansed the native Palestinians, the US has had to offer support to many oppressive regimes, who in return for money/support, don't attack Israel. US support for these oppressive regimes is the other main grievance listed by jihadist groups.

Halting support for Israel wouldn't solve all our conflicts with jihadists, but it would be a huge step in the right direction.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 7:35:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And what "problems" do you refer to exactly?

Many attacks on the US and our interests have been carried out by jihadist groups, who almost always use America's unwavering support for the Israeli occupation, as one of the prime justifications for their attack.

In an effort to keep surrounding Arab/Muslim states from attacking Israel after it ethnically cleansed the native Palestinians, the US has had to offer support to many oppressive regimes, who in return for money/support, don't attack Israel. US support for these oppressive regimes is the other main grievance listed by jihadist groups.

Halting support for Israel wouldn't solve all our conflicts with jihadists, but it would be a huge step in the right direction.

Using American support for Israel provides very limited
justifcation in plotting and/or executing terror attacks. Militant Islamists also claim to have issues with the U.S that are entirely separate to its relations with Israel.

Only Fatah and Hamas use this as their main platform. Other regional terrorist groups, are fighting for variable reasons. For example, the Syrian rebels primarily want to overthrow Assad, and ISIS have the aim of establishing their own (Sunni) Islamic State.

The second one in particular has an anti-western agenda, but again, it is not related to Israel. You've essentially generalised the issue of Middle Eastern conflicts and placed them all into the same category.

As for your other comments, again; they're factually inaccurate.

Israel has never "ethnically cleansed native Palestinians".

1.) Ethnic cleansing requires a wholesale "cleanse" throughout a consistent period of time of a significant number of people. As the the title indicates, the cleansing of an ethnic minority happens on the basic of race. Genocidal massacres such as the Holocaust are fitting and accurate examples.

2.) Another large flaw in that statement is the fact that Palestinian Arabs are not native to te land of Israel. The vast majority of Arabs came under Ottoman and then British rule. The highest number assumes the British occupation when they were employed as migrant workers from the neighbouring countries of Syria, Egypt and Jordan. 1920's to 1940's Palestine demographics offer evidence of this.

The Jewish people, however, profess an over 3000 year old connection to Israel. Hence the many Jewish artefacts and historical sites. In fact, the Jews that did remain were referred to as "Palestinians" themselves. Note that "Palestine" is not an Arabic word, it's Latin. It was renamed that 2000 years ago during Roman occupation.

Alluding to current politics again, halting support for Israel would not result in any long-term benefits for the U.S. Particularly in business and security terms.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
apb4y
Posts: 480
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 7:47:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think it's too late for the USA to stop meddling in Middle-Eastern affairs. They blew their chance to do that when they invaded Iraq. If they pull out now, the fundamentalists will have a chance to grow stronger.

The best solution is to stop fvcking around and just conquer the place. Invading isn't enough; the West needs to colonize it. Once there's a decent infrastructure and a secular government, the standard of living will go up. When that happens, people will lose their desire to join terrorist organizations and throw bombs at schoolgirls. Having Jordan next door should help; they can set a good example.

I'm not suggesting we stamp out Islam, by the way. The colonists should build some mosques to emphasize that.
apb4y
Posts: 480
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 7:48:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:47:10 PM, apb4y wrote:
I think it's too late for the USA to stop meddling in Middle-Eastern affairs. They blew their chance to do that when they invaded Iraq. If they pull out now, the fundamentalists will have a chance to grow stronger.

The best solution is to stop fvcking around and just conquer the place. Invading isn't enough; the West needs to colonize it. Once there's a decent infrastructure and a secular government, the standard of living will go up. When that happens, people will lose their desire to join terrorist organizations and throw bombs at schoolgirls. Having Jordan next door should help; they can set a good example.

I'm not suggesting we stamp out Islam, by the way. The colonists should build some mosques to emphasize that.

How many McDonald's do you reckon we can cram into Baghdad?
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 7:53:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 10:20:57 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
Very very controversial issue for not being very disagreed upon. Most Americans believe we should kill every jihadist out there killing in cold blood. However, are air strikes the ideal solution? People are against "boots on the ground" and others are against "bombing the sh** out of them" so what do you think is the best option? Keep into consideration the very likely result that starts with a WW that could easily become a nightmare.

Step back for a year. See how the Middle East handles their own problems. If ISIS has the nads to attack us or one of our allies again unprovoked, I say we imprison them. Killing them will only turn them into martyrs; and as much as I'd like to execute everyone who associates them in a wide variety of tortures that can't dream of, America would never let me.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 7:59:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yeah... prison doesn't seem to work very well, now that I think about it. I'll go read some NTR to get my mind flowing. I always think best when angry~!
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 8:39:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 6:32:17 PM, HPWKA wrote:
The idea that Muslim attack the US because they hate our lifestyle is akin to believing the moon is made out of cheese. It may sound cute, but there's little evidence for it.

Its generally true that Muslims antagonize the West, due to the West's role in brutalizing, occupying, and colonizing the Muslim world, usually in pursuit of oil, and to check other regional rivals (Russia).

I'm a little uncomfortable with the term "Jewish" lobby. Israeli lobby would be more accurate, as while its true that Jews are a large part of this lobby, its equally true that evangelical right-wing nut-cases are an even larger part of this lobby. This Israeli lobby has caused problems for Americas relation with the middle-east.

I sincerely apologize. I should have said the Israeli lobby and it's really racist to say otherwise because not all Jewish people support Israel. Sorry.

But, with that said, I do think the influence extends beyond the Israeli lobby. Many paranoid people say that Jews control the media. I think this is ridiculous paranoia. No group can be that organized.

But, it's also naive to deny that there are a inordinate number of Jewish people in positions of power in the media, media and finance which might lead to a slight bias towards Jewish causes. It's human nature to be sympathetic with one's culture, race, country, etc. For example, look at Adam who immediately believe the US is in the right no matter how evil the act - we can do no wrong. Or, I look at myself. My grandfather immigrated from Greece so it's hard not to have a slight soft spot for them.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 8:43:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 10:20:57 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
Very very controversial issue for not being very disagreed upon. Most Americans believe we should kill every jihadist out there killing in cold blood. However, are air strikes the ideal solution? People are against "boots on the ground" and others are against "bombing the sh** out of them" so what do you think is the best option? Keep into consideration the very likely result that starts with a WW that could easily become a nightmare.

Jesus will take care of it when He returns to Mt Zion

Islam believes they must have a worldwide bloodbath before the Muslm Messiah comes to force the whole world to be one big Islamic nation. They have always pushed for war in their hatred agasint Jews and Christians, always intended to conquer the world and they are really heating things up now with no end in sight short of the return of Jesus Christ. Russia and China are vying for postion by making alliances with Muslim nations......China alligning with Saudi Arabia, Russia alligning with Iran and Syria....it's a mess with the Muslims trying to get on top of the world and the communists trying to keep the muslims from doing to them what they are doing to the rest of the world. And who knows how long the USA will remain as a world power?
China practically owns the USA now, and enemies of the USA are gawking at our vulnerablilities and smelling blood. ISIS fighters boast on TV at their beheading parties that they are coming to america to raise their ISIS flag over the White House.
WWlll is breathing down our necks, and the muslim nations fighting each other and Israel are being used as pawns on the chess board. Pawns can be powerful in certain positions at different stages in the game, but Jesus is the King of Kings and He rules over it all!

God Himself will defend Israel, and Jesus Christ will rule the world from Mt Zion, and the lion will lay down with the lamb, and men will beat their weapons into plowshares, and they will learn war no more. That is the only solution for the middle east and the rest of the world.
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 8:46:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 7:47:10 PM, apb4y wrote:
I think it's too late for the USA to stop meddling in Middle-Eastern affairs. They blew their chance to do that when they invaded Iraq. If they pull out now, the fundamentalists will have a chance to grow stronger.

The best solution is to stop fvcking around and just conquer the place. Invading isn't enough; the West needs to colonize it. Once there's a decent infrastructure and a secular government, the standard of living will go up. When that happens, people will lose their desire to join terrorist organizations and throw bombs at schoolgirls. Having Jordan next door should help; they can set a good example.

I'm not suggesting we stamp out Islam, by the way. The colonists should build some mosques to emphasize that.

Stop fvcking around and just conquer the place? What do you think we have been trying to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. It's cost trillions and we still are in a big pile of poo poo. You can't go in and conquer a native population. The huge soviet union tried that with afghanistan for a decade and failed.

Now, you're telling me that we do that with the entire middle east?!?

Let me tell you this. We've plowed over a 100 billion into Afghanistan to "upgrade" it and it's still the most primitive country in the entire planet. That's a fact.

We need to apologize, step back and away. Yes, the extremists will grow stronger but when they see us backing off, they will stop attacking us. Let the natives deal with the extremists. Their government will eventually evolve. Europe evolved. USSR evolved. China evolved. The Middle East is at the back of the class but they will eventually catch up.
TryingToBeOpenMinded
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 8:50:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 8:43:18 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 10/1/2014 10:20:57 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
Very very controversial issue for not being very disagreed upon. Most Americans believe we should kill every jihadist out there killing in cold blood. However, are air strikes the ideal solution? People are against "boots on the ground" and others are against "bombing the sh** out of them" so what do you think is the best option? Keep into consideration the very likely result that starts with a WW that could easily become a nightmare.

Jesus will take care of it when He returns to Mt Zion

Islam believes they must have a worldwide bloodbath before the Muslm Messiah comes to force the whole world to be one big Islamic nation. They have always pushed for war in their hatred agasint Jews and Christians, always intended to conquer the world and they are really heating things up now with no end in sight short of the return of Jesus Christ. Russia and China are vying for postion by making alliances with Muslim nations......China alligning with Saudi Arabia, Russia alligning with Iran and Syria....it's a mess with the Muslims trying to get on top of the world and the communists trying to keep the muslims from doing to them what they are doing to the rest of the world. And who knows how long the USA will remain as a world power?
China practically owns the USA now, and enemies of the USA are gawking at our vulnerablilities and smelling blood. ISIS fighters boast on TV at their beheading parties that they are coming to america to raise their ISIS flag over the White House.
WWlll is breathing down our necks, and the muslim nations fighting each other and Israel are being used as pawns on the chess board. Pawns can be powerful in certain positions at different stages in the game, but Jesus is the King of Kings and He rules over it all!

God Himself will defend Israel, and Jesus Christ will rule the world from Mt Zion, and the lion will lay down with the lamb, and men will beat their weapons into plowshares, and they will learn war no more. That is the only solution for the middle east and the rest of the world.

I'm sorry to say this but you're a typical example of someone who's just as crazy as the Islamic extremists. "God himself will defend israel"?

I hope people realize that we are no different than them. Crazy people on both sides. We just have more money.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/3/2014 8:56:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 12:40:25 AM, HPWKA wrote:
Force Muslim nations who have the ability (Gulf/Oil States, Turkey, maybe Pakistan), to take care of it (through withholding of money/weapons/diplomatic support).

American and generally Western strikes in Muslim lands, whether good intentioned or not, polarize the Muslim populace against their efforts, and even if only passively, into the hands of radicals.

One various Muslim countries began striking ISIS/Boko on mass, these jihadist groups will lose their most valuable asset; the tacit support/blind-eye of the Muslim people.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Russia, China, and the Muslim nations all want to subdue the world. All who side with Israel is the good guys. God's chosen people is Israel, and He will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. The enemies of Israel are the enemies of God, and they are Hell-bent on destroying Israel because they are Hell-bent on proving God does not rule over them as they strive to rule over the world. The USA is making big mistakes in pressuring Israel to compromise with its enemies in the name of peace which Israel's enemies will never agree to. Every time the USA pressures Israel to cut a compromise deal with the Palestinians, the USA gets hit with a huge "natural" disaster. 9/11 was a man-made disaster that happened within 24 hrs of Bush's much publicized meeting with Israel when he was pressuring them into a compromise with the palestinians for a peace agreement. The best we can hope for before Jesus comes back is to keep the world from erupting into WWlll, but the Jihadist Muslims sure are trying to make everything erupt.