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Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel?

PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 1:51:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Begin your post with either pro Israel or anti Israel, then proceed to support your conclusion.
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PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 2:25:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 1:51:42 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Begin your post with either pro Israel or anti Israel, then proceed to support your conclusion.
I infer that you mean "anti-government of Israel", not the entirety of the nation, in which case I would negate the legitimacy of the question.

Inferring the above, I am against, just like Hamas. They criticize Hamas for launching rockets into Israel and threatening the lives of civilians whilst they, at the same time, launch even larger bomb strikes on Palestinian Population centres.. any party that blatantly prioritizes asserting their dominance over the region rather than prioritizing a two state solution is despicable to me.

To the opposing view, though, I'm confident that Hamas would behave in a far worse manner than how the Israeli government is behaving if they were to be in the position of power that Israel is in. There is evil and corruption on both the side of the Palestinians and the Israelis.
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PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:25:35 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:51:42 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Begin your post with either pro Israel or anti Israel, then proceed to support your conclusion.
I infer that you mean "anti-government of Israel", not the entirety of the nation, in which case I would negate the legitimacy of the question.

Inferring the above, I am against, just like Hamas. They criticize Hamas for launching rockets into Israel and threatening the lives of civilians whilst they, at the same time, launch even larger bomb strikes on Palestinian Population centres.. any party that blatantly prioritizes asserting their dominance over the region rather than prioritizing a two state solution is despicable to me.

To the opposing view, though, I'm confident that Hamas would behave in a far worse manner than how the Israeli government is behaving if they were to be in the position of power that Israel is in. There is evil and corruption on both the side of the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 2:45:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
This is true, but there are extremists both within the Israeli and Palestinian communities. The root of the problem isn't just corrupt governments (Israeli + Hamas), cause of conflict can be found in deep resentment of Israelis/Jews within the Palestinian population and vice versa.. so I stand by my statement that there is immorality on the side of the palestinians outside Hamas, too.

After all, the Palestinian people did elect Hamas. If at least a significant minority of people didn't support them at the time of their election, I don't think they'd be in power.
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PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 2:46:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:45:49 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
This is true, but there are extremists both within the Israeli and Palestinian communities. The root of the problem isn't just corrupt governments (Israeli + Hamas), cause of conflict can be found in deep resentment of Israelis/Jews within the Palestinian population and vice versa.. so I stand by my statement that there is immorality on the side of the palestinians outside Hamas, too.

After all, the Palestinian people did elect Hamas. If at least a significant minority of people didn't support them at the time of their election, I don't think they'd be in power.

No, they did not elect hamas.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 2:50:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:46:48 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:45:49 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
This is true, but there are extremists both within the Israeli and Palestinian communities. The root of the problem isn't just corrupt governments (Israeli + Hamas), cause of conflict can be found in deep resentment of Israelis/Jews within the Palestinian population and vice versa.. so I stand by my statement that there is immorality on the side of the palestinians outside Hamas, too.

After all, the Palestinian people did elect Hamas. If at least a significant minority of people didn't support them at the time of their election, I don't think they'd be in power.

No, they did not elect hamas.
Then what was the 2006 Palestinian Legislative Election's purpose?
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PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 2:53:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:50:08 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:46:48 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:45:49 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
This is true, but there are extremists both within the Israeli and Palestinian communities. The root of the problem isn't just corrupt governments (Israeli + Hamas), cause of conflict can be found in deep resentment of Israelis/Jews within the Palestinian population and vice versa.. so I stand by my statement that there is immorality on the side of the palestinians outside Hamas, too.

After all, the Palestinian people did elect Hamas. If at least a significant minority of people didn't support them at the time of their election, I don't think they'd be in power.

No, they did not elect hamas.
Then what was the 2006 Palestinian Legislative Election's purpose?

i stand corrected.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 2:57:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:53:46 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:50:08 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:46:48 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:45:49 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:41:03 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Yes, I do mean the Israeli government, the distinction was implied.

Note that the same distinction is applied to Hamas. They are not "the Palestinians"
This is true, but there are extremists both within the Israeli and Palestinian communities. The root of the problem isn't just corrupt governments (Israeli + Hamas), cause of conflict can be found in deep resentment of Israelis/Jews within the Palestinian population and vice versa.. so I stand by my statement that there is immorality on the side of the palestinians outside Hamas, too.

After all, the Palestinian people did elect Hamas. If at least a significant minority of people didn't support them at the time of their election, I don't think they'd be in power.

No, they did not elect hamas.
Then what was the 2006 Palestinian Legislative Election's purpose?

i stand corrected.
Even still, I don't think that Hamas is entirely reflective of the views of the Palestinian People.. the majority of Palestinians voted against them one way or another (they won ~44% of the votes, giving them a minority government), and they promote a culture of fear and violence within Palestine.

I'd be surprised if they got as many votes in a properly regulated election.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.
F _ C K
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YYW
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10/5/2014 3:09:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.

And no one is questioning the tragedy of that. Essentially, this is what happens:

(1) Islamic militant groups within Palestine launch missiles from within civilian occupied areas of Gaza, knowing that Israel will then destroy the building at a time when the building is least likely to be inhabited by people.

(2) Israel determines the location of the launch site, based on the geographic signature the missile left (typically, by review of satellite-generated imagery).

(3) Israel launches strikes on only the specific building from which missiles were launched, at a time when civilians are least likely to be there.

(4) Because the building chosen by Hamas for a launch site is in a civilian area, invariably at least some people are going to die.

Hamas choses to launch from civilian sites because they know that Israel will retaliate and that innocent civilians will be killed as a result.

Hamas does not launch rockets from the swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians because then there would be no anti-Israel media coverage.

I would prefer that the Israeli military availed itself to use other means to defend itself. But, a large scale ground incursion would incite war with Iran.

The least costly way (for both sides), therefore, is to for Israel to defend itself is to strike launch sites.
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charleslb
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10/5/2014 3:20:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Israel is currently preparing the forcible relocation of West Bank Bedouins to a desolate plot of land that's currently a garbage disposal site! Hey Israel, this isn't exactly the way to diminish popular support among Palestinians for organizations such as Hamas, or to promote better relations with your Arab neighbors.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
YamaVonKarma
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10/5/2014 3:25:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 1:51:42 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Begin your post with either pro Israel or anti Israel, then proceed to support your conclusion.

Anti-Israel
The region has been a mess since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Israel trying its very hardest to alienate its Arab neighbors isn't helping and will only speed up Israel's inevitable fall.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
HPWKA
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10/5/2014 3:31:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm already anticipating some Israel propaganda, so here's a primer supported by actual facts, regarding the most recent Israeli/Palestinian clash.

1.) According to the UN and Human Rights Organizations, there is "no evidence" that Hamas uses human shields. This claim is an unsubstantiated apology put forth by the Israeli army, to justify their genocide.

2.) Hamas hadn't fired a rocket into Gaza for YEARS (according to Israeli sources), until June/July of 2014, when Israel arrested 500 Palestinians w/o trial/evidence, killed about 10 more, and raided Palestinian homes/schools in the West Bank, to "search for" the kidnapped Israeli settlers, who the Israeli army already knew were dead. This was capped off with a Israeli missile strike in Gaza, after which Hamas finally responded with violence of their own, which Israel then used as pretext for their war-crimes.

3.) Hamas is a despicable organization, but most of the world does NOT classify them as a terrorist organization, and according to all reports, were they NOT responsible for the kidnapping/murder of the Israeli settlers, which instigated this latest crisis.

4.) Hamas, and all Palestinian factions, offered frequent ceasefires during this past conflict, in exchange for the relaxation/cessation of Israel's blockade on Gaza (which is starving the population/economy), and an end to Israel's occupation of Gaza. Via the UN, World Court, and Human Rights Organizations, these are all legal and valid positions to hold.

I consider myself pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, as I recognize the rights of both communities to live as equals in peace. However, that can't happen, until Israel stops bulldozing Palestinian land, to make way for Jewish-only settlements.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 3:31:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:09:39 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.

And no one is questioning the tragedy of that. Essentially, this is what happens:

(1) Islamic militant groups within Palestine launch missiles from within civilian occupied areas of Gaza, knowing that Israel will then destroy the building at a time when the building is least likely to be inhabited by people.

(2) Israel determines the location of the launch site, based on the geographic signature the missile left (typically, by review of satellite-generated imagery).

(3) Israel launches strikes on only the specific building from which missiles were launched, at a time when civilians are least likely to be there.

(4) Because the building chosen by Hamas for a launch site is in a civilian area, invariably at least some people are going to die.

Hamas choses to launch from civilian sites because they know that Israel will retaliate and that innocent civilians will be killed as a result.

Hamas does not launch rockets from the swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians because then there would be no anti-Israel media coverage.

I would prefer that the Israeli military availed itself to use other means to defend itself. But, a large scale ground incursion would incite war with Iran.

The least costly way (for both sides), therefore, is to for Israel to defend itself is to strike launch sites.

I agree that hamas is a despicable, terrorist, and violent organization, and I agree that Israel, as a sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself. I am more critical of their land grabbing, and of the fact that close to 80% of the casualties in their military campaigns are civilians.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 3:34:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:09:39 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.

And no one is questioning the tragedy of that. Essentially, this is what happens:

(1) Islamic militant groups within Palestine launch missiles from within civilian occupied areas of Gaza, knowing that Israel will then destroy the building at a time when the building is least likely to be inhabited by people.

(2) Israel determines the location of the launch site, based on the geographic signature the missile left (typically, by review of satellite-generated imagery).

(3) Israel launches strikes on only the specific building from which missiles were launched, at a time when civilians are least likely to be there.

(4) Because the building chosen by Hamas for a launch site is in a civilian area, invariably at least some people are going to die.

Hamas choses to launch from civilian sites because they know that Israel will retaliate and that innocent civilians will be killed as a result.

Hamas does not launch rockets from the swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians because then there would be no anti-Israel media coverage.
To be clear, I am not pro-israel and I am not pro-hamas. If I had to choose between the two, I would choose the Israelis.

I think this is where the issue where your argument lies; the so-called "swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians" are very limited if not nonexistent. Gaza is actually densely overpopulated.

Even still, I agree that a retaliation on behalf of the Israeli government is justifiable.. but Israel doesn't want peace either. Netanyahu, on multiple occasions, has voiced the opinion that the Palestinians can never control themselves because they and all who they have historically elected are "barbaric" and "eternally threatening". In layman's terms, he favours a rocket-firing Palestine over a free one, perhaps for the exact same media-related reasons you cite.

The Israeli Government has not been cooperative enough -- if at all -- historically towards reaching a two state solution as they could have been (i.e during the rule of Fatah over Palestine) The indirect result is the rise of a party that also rejects the idea of a two state solution in response.

Both sides refuse to accept the fact that the other do and always will exist.
Instead of working towards peace when they could have, the Israeli government opted to maintain the stance that Palestine could never be free and are now, as a result, met with a palestinian government who favours the elimination of Israel.

If Israel prioritized peace over control or commercial concepts, they would lean in favour of meeting the demands of Fatah (or, maybe now even Hamas) and reinstall UN regulation of the area, and actively participate in reaching a deal granting some sense of sovereignty to the Palestinians.
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YYW
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10/5/2014 3:34:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:31:37 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:09:39 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.

And no one is questioning the tragedy of that. Essentially, this is what happens:

(1) Islamic militant groups within Palestine launch missiles from within civilian occupied areas of Gaza, knowing that Israel will then destroy the building at a time when the building is least likely to be inhabited by people.

(2) Israel determines the location of the launch site, based on the geographic signature the missile left (typically, by review of satellite-generated imagery).

(3) Israel launches strikes on only the specific building from which missiles were launched, at a time when civilians are least likely to be there.

(4) Because the building chosen by Hamas for a launch site is in a civilian area, invariably at least some people are going to die.

Hamas choses to launch from civilian sites because they know that Israel will retaliate and that innocent civilians will be killed as a result.

Hamas does not launch rockets from the swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians because then there would be no anti-Israel media coverage.

I would prefer that the Israeli military availed itself to use other means to defend itself. But, a large scale ground incursion would incite war with Iran.

The least costly way (for both sides), therefore, is to for Israel to defend itself is to strike launch sites.

I agree that hamas is a despicable, terrorist, and violent organization, and I agree that Israel, as a sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself. I am more critical of their land grabbing, and of the fact that close to 80% of the casualties in their military campaigns are civilians.

The casualty percentage you're reflecting comes from numbers Hamas agents issued. Israel's percentages differ. Even still, all of those casualties would be avoided if Hamas chose to launch missiles from the areas of Gaza that were not inhabited by civilians.

In launching from civilian areas, Hamas willfully puts innocent people in danger. The blood of those innocent people killed in the line of fire between Israel's legitimate right to defend itself and Hamas's terroristic aggression is on Hamas, not Israel.

However, I too wish that Israel would invade and occupy the Palestinian territory. Soldiers are much better able to distinguish civilians from combatants than missiles, even if Hamas recognizes no such distinction.
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TN05
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10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
PotBelliedGeek
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10/5/2014 3:38:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:34:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:31:37 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:09:39 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:02:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:53:23 PM, YYW wrote:
To be pro-Israel is not to be opposed to innocent Palestinian civilians.
Well, the Israeli government has killed thousands of them.

And no one is questioning the tragedy of that. Essentially, this is what happens:

(1) Islamic militant groups within Palestine launch missiles from within civilian occupied areas of Gaza, knowing that Israel will then destroy the building at a time when the building is least likely to be inhabited by people.

(2) Israel determines the location of the launch site, based on the geographic signature the missile left (typically, by review of satellite-generated imagery).

(3) Israel launches strikes on only the specific building from which missiles were launched, at a time when civilians are least likely to be there.

(4) Because the building chosen by Hamas for a launch site is in a civilian area, invariably at least some people are going to die.

Hamas choses to launch from civilian sites because they know that Israel will retaliate and that innocent civilians will be killed as a result.

Hamas does not launch rockets from the swaths of land in Gaza not occupied by civilians because then there would be no anti-Israel media coverage.

I would prefer that the Israeli military availed itself to use other means to defend itself. But, a large scale ground incursion would incite war with Iran.

The least costly way (for both sides), therefore, is to for Israel to defend itself is to strike launch sites.

I agree that hamas is a despicable, terrorist, and violent organization, and I agree that Israel, as a sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself. I am more critical of their land grabbing, and of the fact that close to 80% of the casualties in their military campaigns are civilians.

The casualty percentage you're reflecting comes from numbers Hamas agents issued. Israel's percentages differ. Even still, all of those casualties would be avoided if Hamas chose to launch missiles from the areas of Gaza that were not inhabited by civilians.

In launching from civilian areas, Hamas willfully puts innocent people in danger. The blood of those innocent people killed in the line of fire between Israel's legitimate right to defend itself and Hamas's terroristic aggression is on Hamas, not Israel.

However, I too wish that Israel would invade and occupy the Palestinian territory. Soldiers are much better able to distinguish civilians from combatants than missiles, even if Hamas recognizes no such distinction.

My numbers came from the BBC a few months ago.

As I said, I agree with you on Hamas.

As for the idea of invading and occupying Palestinian land, then

A) this happens on a regular basis

B) When it does happen, they end up forcing the inhabitants out and installing their own settlements

C) This will serve only to increase anti Israel sentiment in the region.
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Daltonian
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10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

I support a free Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist organization.
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TN05
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10/5/2014 3:41:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pro-Israel

The only democracy in the Middle East. All wars were defensive in nature, and its enemies seek nothing less than the extermination of all Jews and the transformation of Israel into a hardline Islamic theocracy.

If Palestine laid down its arms, they'd get a state. If Israel laid down theirs, they would all die.
YYW
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10/5/2014 3:41:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My solution is as follows:

Israel invades and occupies the entire area of Palestine, and completely removes all political authority from the hands of the Palestinians.

Israel establishes martial law for a limited period of time, during which Hamas and similar terrorist outfits would be purged from the area.

Israel guarantees non-terrorist Palestinians the same rights as Israeli citizens, the blockade is removed, all barriers to commerce and travel are removed within six months of occupation.

This would prevent Israel from having to use missiles in self defense, and would protect innocent Palestinians from being caught in the crossfire.

Israel should also bear the cost of re-establishing Palestine's public works and infrastructure.

Those affiliated with Hamas should be tried and imprisoned.
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TN05
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10/5/2014 3:42:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

What's their alternative?

I support a free Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

A free Palestine will never happen, as all Palestinian parties reject partition.
YYW
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10/5/2014 3:43:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:42:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

What's their alternative?

A ground invasion, and a one-state solution.

I support a free Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

A free Palestine will never happen, as all Palestinian parties reject partition.
Tsar of DDO
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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10/5/2014 3:45:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:41:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
Pro-Israel

The only democracy in the Middle East. All wars were defensive in nature, and its enemies seek nothing less than the extermination of all Jews and the transformation of Israel into a hardline Islamic theocracy.

If Palestine laid down its arms, they'd get a state. If Israel laid down theirs, they would all die.
Palestine would not get a state if it laid down it's arms. Benjamin Netanyahu has adamantly denied this. He views Palestine as belonging to Israel. There will never be peace so long as he carries this mindset.

If America laid down it's arms, everyone there would die too, but because of ISIS or Al-Qaeda, not the loosely associated Pakistani/Iraqi people.

If Israel laid down it's arms, they would likely be killed, but because of Hamas, not the [less] loosely associated majority of Palestinian people.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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10/5/2014 3:46:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:43:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:42:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

What's their alternative?

The Palestinians would never accept that. At best, they support removing all Jewish influence from the area and making an Islamic theocracy. At worst, they want a second holocaust. You cannot co-exist with people who want to kill you.

A ground invasion, and a one-state solution.

I support a free Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

A free Palestine will never happen, as all Palestinian parties reject partition.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/5/2014 3:48:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:46:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:43:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:42:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

What's their alternative?

The Palestinians would never accept that.

Of course they wouldn't. I'm not really concerned with whether they accept it or not. I'm concerned with them not being killed in the crossfire between Israel and Hamas.

At best, they support removing all Jewish influence from the area and making an Islamic theocracy. At worst, they want a second holocaust.

There are many Muslims who would be open to that, yes. But, all of Palestine does not feel that way.

You cannot co-exist with people who want to kill you.

Not all of Palestine wants to purge Israel from this earth. Even among those who do, I think that their opinion could change if Israel followed my plan outlined above.

A ground invasion, and a one-state solution.

I support a free Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

A free Palestine will never happen, as all Palestinian parties reject partition.
Tsar of DDO
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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10/5/2014 3:49:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:45:40 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:41:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
Pro-Israel

The only democracy in the Middle East. All wars were defensive in nature, and its enemies seek nothing less than the extermination of all Jews and the transformation of Israel into a hardline Islamic theocracy.

If Palestine laid down its arms, they'd get a state. If Israel laid down theirs, they would all die.
Palestine would not get a state if it laid down it's arms. Benjamin Netanyahu has adamantly denied this. He views Palestine as belonging to Israel. There will never be peace so long as he carries this mindset.

They would, actually. Their terrorism is the only thing keeping many people from supporting them.

If America laid down it's arms, everyone there would die too, but because of ISIS or Al-Qaeda, not the loosely associated Pakistani/Iraqi people.

America isn't next to a country of people who want them dead.

If Israel laid down it's arms, they would likely be killed, but because of Hamas, not the [less] loosely associated majority of Palestinian people.

Only 38% of Palestinians support co-existence with Israel. (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...)
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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10/5/2014 3:49:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:46:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:43:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:42:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:39:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:37:57 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 2:03:15 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Anti- Israel

Even in its very establishment, the State of Israel has come about via exclusively barbaric and unethical methods. Beginning with the ISIS-like, self declared Zionist fighting force that began terrorizing the inhabitants of the are in the late eighteen hundreds and morphing into a state-based ethnic cleansing force in the mid twentieth century, Israel has robbed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, stealing their homes and their land, creating a global refugee crisis that persists to this day.

Israel has defied international law by continuously stealing more land, by refusing to sign the nuclear non-proliferation act that even Iran signed, and by and by regularly killing multiple thousands of civilians.

Israel is a slap in the face to the ideal of the separation of church and state, and is a disgrace to global diplomacy.

Just lost a lot of respect for you. I assume you support Hamas?
Being against Israel bombing Palestinian civilians does not necessitate support of Hamas.

What's their alternative?

The Palestinians would never accept that. At best, they support removing all Jewish influence from the area and making an Islamic theocracy. At worst, they want a second holocaust. You cannot co-exist with people who want to kill you.
If this is true, then why did they elect the secular Fatah into majority power on multiple occasions?

Fatah, which is far less violent than Hamas ever was or is, advocated a two state solution and Israel ignored them, instead opting to view a land and culture of people nothing like them as belonging to them simply because of geographical proximity. This indirectly lead to the rise of Hamas to power.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby