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Euthanasia

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/16/2014 11:04:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At present, only five U.S. states allow terminally ill patients to die with dignity when they no longer want to suffer. A sad but touching story recently made headlines when a 29 year old decided to be open about taking her own life upon her deadly cancer diagnosis. She chooses to die peacefully in her sleep, surrounded by her mother and husband at home instead of whither away unconscious in a hospital.

Around the time the article came out, I just finished my rematch debate with lann13 on the topic of euthanasia (I'm Pro). I had to forfeit a previous debate, but I sincerely believe that as human beings our lives belong to ourselves. Forcing someone to endure an inevitable and painful death is unnecessary, especially if they choose otherwise. We spare our pets that pain - why not each other?

For more of my obviously convincing arguments, check out the debate linked below.

Brittany Maynard Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

My Debate: http://www.debate.org...
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lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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10/16/2014 11:10:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:04:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
At present, only five U.S. states allow terminally ill patients to die with dignity when they no longer want to suffer. A sad but touching story recently made headlines when a 29 year old decided to be open about taking her own life upon her deadly cancer diagnosis. She chooses to die peacefully in her sleep, surrounded by her mother and husband at home instead of whither away unconscious in a hospital.

Around the time the article came out, I just finished my rematch debate with lann13 on the topic of euthanasia (I'm Pro). I had to forfeit a previous debate, but I sincerely believe that as human beings our lives belong to ourselves. Forcing someone to endure an inevitable and painful death is unnecessary, especially if they choose otherwise. We spare our pets that pain - why not each other?

For more of my obviously convincing arguments, check out the debate linked below.

Brittany Maynard Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

My Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Still people have to be in the correct state of mind in order for them to make a such decision. Let's observe Catch-22 to Euthanasia. You can apply for euthanasia, but since you are choosing death over life you are assumed sick and are thus not allowed to do anything as you are sick and only when a person is in the right state of mind then they choose life over mind.
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fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/17/2014 6:45:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:04:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
At present, only five U.S. states allow terminally ill patients to die with dignity when they no longer want to suffer. A sad but touching story recently made headlines when a 29 year old decided to be open about taking her own life upon her deadly cancer diagnosis. She chooses to die peacefully in her sleep, surrounded by her mother and husband at home instead of whither away unconscious in a hospital.

Around the time the article came out, I just finished my rematch debate with lann13 on the topic of euthanasia (I'm Pro). I had to forfeit a previous debate, but I sincerely believe that as human beings our lives belong to ourselves.

What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Forcing someone to endure an inevitable and painful death is unnecessary, especially if they choose otherwise. We spare our pets that pain - why not each other?

I can see Iannan taking the legal route. Leaving aside the complicated question of rights and spiritual beliefs which would unduly restrict the discussion to US borders, how do we answer this question?

Pain can be visceral as well. How do we decide if the 'sick' are worthy of rights (Again: let us define rights as morality rather than legality) and those who ultimately have no voice, no purpose, left.

For more of my obviously convincing arguments, check out the debate linked below.

Brittany Maynard Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

My Debate: http://www.debate.org...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/17/2014 8:03:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 6:45:39 AM, fazz wrote:
What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Read the debate :) I wanted to promote a discussion because I think this is an interesting and important topic. I recently lost a friend to brain cancer who wanted the option to die with dignity (is how she put it), but living in NY the option would constitute 2nd degree manslaughter. Anyway, she recently passed, and that also coincided with this story/campaign and our debate... which just so happens to have 0 votes with only 12 days left to vote. I figured promoting this debate could create dialog based on the arguments we wrote about. Everybody wins.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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10/17/2014 9:33:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 8:03:35 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 10/17/2014 6:45:39 AM, fazz wrote:
What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Read the debate :) I wanted to promote a discussion because I think this is an interesting and important topic. I recently lost a friend to brain cancer who wanted the option to die with dignity (is how she put it), but living in NY the option would constitute 2nd degree manslaughter. Anyway, she recently passed, and that also coincided with this story/campaign and our debate... which just so happens to have 0 votes with only 12 days left to vote. I figured promoting this debate could create dialog based on the arguments we wrote about. Everybody wins.

Good debate. Although it wasn't a necessary part of the debate, I would have liked to have read some points about suicide and how it differs from euthanasia, especially in determining the claim of soundness of mind.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/17/2014 12:40:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 8:03:35 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 10/17/2014 6:45:39 AM, fazz wrote:
What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Read the debate :) I wanted to promote a discussion because I think this is an interesting and important topic. I recently lost a friend to brain cancer who wanted the option to die with dignity (is how she put it),

I will read the debate.

which just so happens to have 0 votes with only 12 days left to vote.

I will vote, also.

I figured promoting this debate could create dialog based on the arguments we wrote about.

Well, I think my question was related. I was trying to approach the topic of death as taboo.

but...

I will wait till after I vote to comment further.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/17/2014 1:42:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 9:33:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Good debate. Although it wasn't a necessary part of the debate, I would have liked to have read some points about suicide and how it differs from euthanasia, especially in determining the claim of soundness of mind.

Why did you disagree with the Terry Schiavo example?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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10/17/2014 1:45:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 1:42:24 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/17/2014 9:33:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Good debate. Although it wasn't a necessary part of the debate, I would have liked to have read some points about suicide and how it differs from euthanasia, especially in determining the claim of soundness of mind.

Why did you disagree with the Terry Schiavo example?

Read Dani's response.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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10/17/2014 1:51:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I really disagree with appeals to emotion in logical debates. We don't need endless pages of appeal rhetoric Charleslb style to get a logical point across.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/17/2014 1:57:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 1:45:09 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/17/2014 1:42:24 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/17/2014 9:33:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Good debate. Although it wasn't a necessary part of the debate, I would have liked to have read some points about suicide and how it differs from euthanasia, especially in determining the claim of soundness of mind.

Why did you disagree with the Terry Schiavo example?

Read Dani's response.

Mkay.

I would also point out that letting her *starve* to death does not sound like peacefully sliding into the other worldliness. There are much more direct, more humane processes available. Thus, what happened to this woman was/is avoidable, and does not serve as a plus for Con.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/17/2014 5:13:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:04:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
At present, only five U.S. states allow terminally ill patients to die with dignity when they no longer want to suffer. A sad but touching story recently made headlines when a 29 year old decided to be open about taking her own life upon her deadly cancer diagnosis. She chooses to die peacefully in her sleep, surrounded by her mother and husband at home instead of whither away unconscious in a hospital.

Around the time the article came out, I just finished my rematch debate with lann13 on the topic of euthanasia (I'm Pro). I had to forfeit a previous debate, but I sincerely believe that as human beings our lives belong to ourselves. Forcing someone to endure an inevitable and painful death is unnecessary, especially if they choose otherwise. We spare our pets that pain - why not each other?

For more of my obviously convincing arguments, check out the debate linked below.

Brittany Maynard Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

My Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Ok. Debate voted. Done and now I am going ask again.

I understand Dani, that your friend went through this process. How did it change your personal feelings about death?

I have worked with a lot of mental patients in a controlled facility. I found them to be ultimately positive. There was nothing negative about their attitude to life, except for suicide, which I disagree with for personal reasons.

I am posing the questions below to see what people have thoughts about death. Here death is not suicide is not euthanasia. Do people have a right to die?

What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Leaving aside the complicated question of rights and spiritual beliefs which would unduly restrict the discussion to US borders, how do we answer this question?

Pain can be visceral as well. How do we decide if the 'sick' are worthy of rights (Again: let us define rights as morality rather than legality) and those who ultimately have no voice, no purpose, left do not.

Do people have a right to Death?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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10/18/2014 8:32:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/17/2014 5:13:13 PM, fazz wrote:
At 10/16/2014 11:04:43 PM, Danielle wrote:
At present, only five U.S. states allow terminally ill patients to die with dignity when they no longer want to suffer. A sad but touching story recently made headlines when a 29 year old decided to be open about taking her own life upon her deadly cancer diagnosis. She chooses to die peacefully in her sleep, surrounded by her mother and husband at home instead of whither away unconscious in a hospital.

Around the time the article came out, I just finished my rematch debate with lann13 on the topic of euthanasia (I'm Pro). I had to forfeit a previous debate, but I sincerely believe that as human beings our lives belong to ourselves. Forcing someone to endure an inevitable and painful death is unnecessary, especially if they choose otherwise. We spare our pets that pain - why not each other?

For more of my obviously convincing arguments, check out the debate linked below.

Brittany Maynard Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

My Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Ok. Debate voted. Done and now I am going ask again.

I understand Dani, that your friend went through this process. How did it change your personal feelings about death?

I have worked with a lot of mental patients in a controlled facility. I found them to be ultimately positive. There was nothing negative about their attitude to life, except for suicide, which I disagree with for personal reasons.

I am posing the questions below to see what people have thoughts about death. Here death is not suicide is not euthanasia. Do people have a right to die?

What about the right to take one's own life. Not of one's own will but assisted suicide. What if I am not ill. What if I am just 'tired' of all this.

Leaving aside the complicated question of rights and spiritual beliefs which would unduly restrict the discussion to US borders, how do we answer this question?

Pain can be visceral as well. How do we decide if the 'sick' are worthy of rights (Again: let us define rights as morality rather than legality) and those who ultimately have no voice, no purpose, left do not.

Do people have a right to Death?

a FAR better question is, Who sets the bar for declaring a person "Sick" or "Unfit"? At what point is the right to euthanize yourself confiscated by some authority?
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/18/2014 9:45:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 8:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:

a FAR better question is, Who sets the bar for declaring a person "Sick" or "Unfit"?

Meh. I was talking about my own expereinces.

At what point is the right to euthanize yourself confiscated by some authority?

The basis of Western Medicine is to concede authority and refer to consultations instead of holisitic medicine. In the hypothetical situation that I suddenly became "Sick and Unfit" I would ask a professional.

Well, if this is a legal question I would leave it up to the doctors.

If it is a moral question I would leave it up to the family and the religious beliefs.

The doctors can follow the authority of the law unless the family puts some restrictions to treatment like Jehovah's witnesses.

Scientifically, the legal supersedes the moral. Pragmattically, doctors can be lenient towards turning the 'scales'. (ie. ideally that, Pragmatic > Legal).
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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10/18/2014 10:12:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 9:45:05 AM, fazz wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:

a FAR better question is, Who sets the bar for declaring a person "Sick" or "Unfit"?

Meh. I was talking about my own expereinces.

At what point is the right to euthanize yourself confiscated by some authority?

The basis of Western Medicine is to concede authority and refer to consultations instead of holisitic medicine. In the hypothetical situation that I suddenly became "Sick and Unfit" I would ask a professional.

Well, if this is a legal question I would leave it up to the doctors.

If it is a moral question I would leave it up to the family and the religious beliefs.

The doctors can follow the authority of the law unless the family puts some restrictions to treatment like Jehovah's witnesses.

Scientifically, the legal supersedes the moral. Pragmattically, doctors can be lenient towards turning the 'scales'. (ie. ideally that, Pragmatic > Legal).

Then if "Sick" is such a loose and arbitrary term, then it should not be the standard to decide something so important as Euthanasia.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/18/2014 10:33:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/18/2014 10:12:42 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/18/2014 9:45:05 AM, fazz wrote:
At 10/18/2014 8:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:

a FAR better question is, Who sets the bar for declaring a person "Sick" or "Unfit"?

Meh. I was talking about my own expereinces.

At what point is the right to euthanize yourself confiscated by some authority?

The basis of Western Medicine is to concede authority and refer to consultations instead of holisitic medicine. In the hypothetical situation that I suddenly became "Sick and Unfit" I would ask a professional.

Well, if this is a legal question I would leave it up to the doctors.

If it is a moral question I would leave it up to the family and the religious beliefs.

The doctors can follow the authority of the law unless the family puts some restrictions to treatment like Jehovah's witnesses.

Scientifically, the legal supersedes the moral. Pragmattically, doctors can be lenient towards turning the 'scales'. (ie. ideally that, Pragmatic > Legal).

Then if "Sick" is such a loose and arbitrary term, then it should not be the standard to decide something so important as Euthanasia.

The easy answer is duh! its illegal. Its going to stay that way.

The hard answer is sticking our heads into this moral nonsense. I am not sure death is that important. Maybe you think death deserves some protection. But I am all for breaking down this censorship and taboo and letting people decide.

And don't call it Euthanasia. Let's call it what it is.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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10/18/2014 10:36:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Then if "Sick" is such a loose and arbitrary term, then it should not be the standard to decide something so important as Euthanasia.

I don't understand what's so bad about letting sick people die. They're sick. They're better off dead. I personally think all people over 75 should be euthanized. They are all retarded.