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Death penalty..

ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...

Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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10/21/2014 10:39:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

That site is fake.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/21/2014 10:41:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.

Executing him fails to rectify the incident and even the issue at large. Nothing is gained from a captured man's death. Something of spiritual and/or communal value could be gained if he lived to learn from his faults, if anything; a difference could be made. The parents of the victims don't gain anything. The parents of the perpetrator now too must experience an extent of grief. Is anything solved?

Capital punishment is a sign of hopelessness for the accused and the accusers.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/21/2014 11:10:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:39:24 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

That site is fake.

Eh.
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/21/2014 11:56:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 10:41:18 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.

Executing him fails to rectify the incident and even the issue at large. Nothing is gained from a captured man's death. Something of spiritual and/or communal value could be gained if he lived to learn from his faults, if anything; a difference could be made. The parents of the victims don't gain anything. The parents of the perpetrator now too must experience an extent of grief. Is anything solved?

Capital punishment is a sign of hopelessness for the accused and the accusers.

You rape, you die. End of story. He cannot be allowed to live now that we know what he's capable of.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/22/2014 6:13:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

Death sentences solve nothing. He should be sentenced to work on a farm and bring life-sustaining things to people. Explain how a death sentence rectifies anything.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/22/2014 9:34:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 11:56:07 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:41:18 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.

Executing him fails to rectify the incident and even the issue at large. Nothing is gained from a captured man's death. Something of spiritual and/or communal value could be gained if he lived to learn from his faults, if anything; a difference could be made. The parents of the victims don't gain anything. The parents of the perpetrator now too must experience an extent of grief. Is anything solved?

Capital punishment is a sign of hopelessness for the accused and the accusers.

You rape, you die. End of story. He cannot be allowed to live now that we know what he's capable of.

Everyone is capable of good and evil, vice and virtue.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/22/2014 9:35:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 6:13:44 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

Death sentences solve nothing. He should be sentenced to work on a farm and bring life-sustaining things to people. Explain how a death sentence rectifies anything.

That name though... lol
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/22/2014 5:46:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:34:52 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:56:07 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:41:18 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.

Executing him fails to rectify the incident and even the issue at large. Nothing is gained from a captured man's death. Something of spiritual and/or communal value could be gained if he lived to learn from his faults, if anything; a difference could be made. The parents of the victims don't gain anything. The parents of the perpetrator now too must experience an extent of grief. Is anything solved?

Capital punishment is a sign of hopelessness for the accused and the accusers.

You rape, you die. End of story. He cannot be allowed to live now that we know what he's capable of.

Everyone is capable of good and evil, vice and virtue.

All dogs can maul people, but if you treat them well and teach them from puppy-hood not to hurt others, they usually won't. Adult dogs can't be trained as easily. If you've got a full-grown pitbull who goes around ripping children's faces off, you put it down.

If this guy was 8 years old, I'd agree that he needs help. 8-year-old rapists are usually mimicking their own abusers, and don't fully grasp what it is they're doing. However, he's 19. He's an adult, which means he knows full well that rape is wrong and is choosing to do it anyway. If you've got a scumbag who goes around raping people, you put him down.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/22/2014 9:17:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 5:46:27 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:34:52 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 11:56:07 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:41:18 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 10:20:37 PM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

I disagree. People like him have no right to draw breath. If he was in my family, I'd disown and kill him for what he did to that girl.

Executing him fails to rectify the incident and even the issue at large. Nothing is gained from a captured man's death. Something of spiritual and/or communal value could be gained if he lived to learn from his faults, if anything; a difference could be made. The parents of the victims don't gain anything. The parents of the perpetrator now too must experience an extent of grief. Is anything solved?

Capital punishment is a sign of hopelessness for the accused and the accusers.

You rape, you die. End of story. He cannot be allowed to live now that we know what he's capable of.

Everyone is capable of good and evil, vice and virtue.

All dogs can maul people, but if you treat them well and teach them from puppy-hood not to hurt others, they usually won't. Adult dogs can't be trained as easily. If you've got a full-grown pitbull who goes around ripping children's faces off, you put it down.

If this guy was 8 years old, I'd agree that he needs help. 8-year-old rapists are usually mimicking their own abusers, and don't fully grasp what it is they're doing. However, he's 19. He's an adult, which means he knows full well that rape is wrong and is choosing to do it anyway. If you've got a scumbag who goes around raping people, you put him down.

Oh okay. Comparing dogs with humans. gg.
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure. The death penalty is an extremely important symbolic punishment as it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, but modern application (in the US certainly) has robbed it of a lot of its value.

I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.
DDO Vice President

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

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"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/22/2014 9:29:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life"
It is arguably more humane to not let them live. And, in case of an erroneous sentence, it seems worse to be set free at an old age, having missed out on an incredible amount of things and opportunities, lost people one loved without having spent desired time with them, and so forth. At least, when one is dead, one does not regret and go through one of the most imaginable emotional pains possible, should there be another verdict on one's case.
ben2974
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10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/22/2014 9:54:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:17:10 PM, ben2974 wrote:

Oh okay. Comparing dogs with humans. gg.

I wasn't going to, but then I met yo mama.

At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:

And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

China, for all its dodgy crap, is efficient at employing the death penalty. If the US is going to have capital punishment, they should take notes.
thett3
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10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one. Not explicitly, but the fact that you're willing to get worked up over a penalty that affects, at most, about 50 of our worst human rights violators per year when the alternative is a punishment arguably just as cruel and when there are quite literally hundreds of things causing more death than capital punishment shows quite clearly the effect that the punishment of death has on the psyche. By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/23/2014 7:26:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

Nope, didn't miss this.


The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Great, so knowing that the guilty goes punished calms our nerves.

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

I agree, we need punishment. I think those societies that view capital punishment as the most just punishment (for the given "outrage") are wrong.


"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one.

No, I don't. It's the highest unjust punishment, maybe.

By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.

I could only imagine an enculturation of mercilessness and wickedness inspired by a society advocating public executions.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?

What the U.S does, everyone should do?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Burden's on you!
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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10/23/2014 8:36:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.

My mother and I visit my brother on death row once a year, maybe twice if we can afford it (he's in another state). I've heard comments like this before. That is, that it is more humane to kill someone than to let them live in a cell. Let me assure you that my mother, my brother, and I wish he weren't going to die. I do agree that prisoners in jail for life should have the option of state-assisted suicide, if they feel differently.
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apb4y
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10/23/2014 9:08:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 8:36:02 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.

My mother and I visit my brother on death row once a year, maybe twice if we can afford it (he's in another state). I've heard comments like this before. That is, that it is more humane to kill someone than to let them live in a cell. Let me assure you that my mother, my brother, and I wish he weren't going to die. I do agree that prisoners in jail for life should have the option of state-assisted suicide, if they feel differently.

What's he in for? Was it a heinous crime or just a stupid one? I heard of one case in Texas where two guys robbed a convenience store, one of them (but nobody knows which one) accidentally shot the shop owner, and both of them got executed for it. To me, that just seems dumb. They fvcked up; that doesn't make them Jeffrey Dahmer.
thett3
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10/23/2014 9:56:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 8:36:02 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.

My mother and I visit my brother on death row once a year, maybe twice if we can afford it (he's in another state). I've heard comments like this before. That is, that it is more humane to kill someone than to let them live in a cell. Let me assure you that my mother, my brother, and I wish he weren't going to die. I do agree that prisoners in jail for life should have the option of state-assisted suicide, if they feel differently.

I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry to hear this. It's easy to make comments like this as a distant observer, but quite different to hear from someone who feels this impact personally
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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10/23/2014 10:02:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 7:26:14 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I guess not.


I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

Nope, didn't miss this.


The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Great, so knowing that the guilty goes punished calms our nerves.

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

I agree, we need punishment. I think those societies that view capital punishment as the most just punishment (for the given "outrage") are wrong.

That's good for you, but that isn't an argument. By conceding the arguments I made above, you basically conceded the arbitrariness of justice systems as a whole. They only reflect the moral values of the populace and unfortunately for your position in the United States that means the death penalty for right now.

I can see arguments for the death penalty being unjust. The point is, you haven't made them. Literally everything you've been saying has been the equivalent of a rant.


"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one.

No, I don't. It's the highest unjust punishment, maybe.

Your reaction says otherwise.

By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.


I could only imagine an enculturation of mercilessness and wickedness inspired by a society advocating public executions.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?

What the U.S does, everyone should do?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Burden's on you!

No, what the US does the US should do unless you give good reasons otherwise. It's a concept called burden of proof
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/23/2014 10:24:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 10:02:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:26:14 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I guess not.


I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

Nope, didn't miss this.


The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Great, so knowing that the guilty goes punished calms our nerves.

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

I agree, we need punishment. I think those societies that view capital punishment as the most just punishment (for the given "outrage") are wrong.

That's good for you, but that isn't an argument. By conceding the arguments I made above,
Conceding to what argument, LOL? You "clarified" why there is punishment. That does not legitimize capital punishment as such a form.


I can see arguments for the death penalty being unjust. The point is, you haven't made them. Literally everything you've been saying has been the equivalent of a rant.


"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one.

No, I don't. It's the highest unjust punishment, maybe.

Your reaction says otherwise.

By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.


I could only imagine an enculturation of mercilessness and wickedness inspired by a society advocating public executions.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?

What the U.S does, everyone should do?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Burden's on you!

No, what the US does the US should do unless you give good reasons otherwise. It's a concept called burden of proof

Arguments for capital punishment are universal. The fact that the majority of nations favor no capital punishment means that evidence against capital punishment is [seen as] greater than the evidence for it. I can easily switch to a country that does not allow the capital punishment and then redirect the question to you. Yet still that wouldn't make a difference, since reasoning for either side will remain the same no matter the place. You're just pulling this crap so that you can evade actually putting down your thoughts. You still haven't laid anything out for me, nor have you rebutted against my arguments, or concerns, to say the least (what you call rants).
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/23/2014 11:53:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

It must be weighed on the risk of repeat crimes vs the likelihood of redemption. If the person is not likely going to change their ways, there is no reason to waste resources on their survival.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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10/24/2014 12:50:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/23/2014 10:24:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 10:02:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:26:14 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I guess not.


I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

Nope, didn't miss this.


The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Great, so knowing that the guilty goes punished calms our nerves.

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

I agree, we need punishment. I think those societies that view capital punishment as the most just punishment (for the given "outrage") are wrong.

That's good for you, but that isn't an argument. By conceding the arguments I made above,
Conceding to what argument, LOL? You "clarified" why there is punishment. That does not legitimize capital punishment as such a form.

Way to remove the relevant parts of what I said.


I can see arguments for the death penalty being unjust. The point is, you haven't made them. Literally everything you've been saying has been the equivalent of a rant.


"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one.

No, I don't. It's the highest unjust punishment, maybe.

Your reaction says otherwise.

By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.


I could only imagine an enculturation of mercilessness and wickedness inspired by a society advocating public executions.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?

What the U.S does, everyone should do?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Burden's on you!

No, what the US does the US should do unless you give good reasons otherwise. It's a concept called burden of proof

Arguments for capital punishment are universal. The fact that the majority of nations favor no capital punishment means that evidence against capital punishment is [seen as] greater than the evidence for it. I can easily switch to a country that does not allow the capital punishment and then redirect the question to you. Yet still that wouldn't make a difference, since reasoning for either side will remain the same no matter the place. You're just pulling this crap so that you can evade actually putting down your thoughts. You still haven't laid anything out for me, nor have you rebutted against my arguments, or concerns, to say the least (what you call rants).

That you're either too dishonest or too ignorant to understand that a) I *did* provide an argument for capital punishment when I argued that I see little moral difference between it and life imprisonment and specified some advantages and b) The burden is on *you* since *you* made the claim in the OP that there is no place for capital punishment based on a case that was in a country that has capital punishment leads me to declare this conversation over.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/24/2014 8:30:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 12:50:09 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 10:24:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 10:02:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/23/2014 7:26:14 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:58:53 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:42:45 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/22/2014 9:24:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
The amount of bad arguments in this thread...

Fight me bro

Lol, I'll debate you if you want.

I guess not.


I did not look at the link, nor do I want to. I don't need a description of a graphic crime to come to a decision. At the end of the day, I see very little moral difference between executing someone and locking them in a 6 by 8 box for the rest of their "life" except that one ensures they will never kill again and, in some cases, provides a societal sense of closure.
Societal sense of closure? You make it sound like there's a grand conclusion by means of execution. What the hell does societal sense of closure even mean? The only thing that happened is the death of another man (or woman).

So what you're missing here is the fundamental purpose of punishment and why human society evolved to craft legal systems in the first place. Humans crave "justice" and punishment for wrongdoers because we evolved as social animals. There are all sorts of theories of justice but for the most part these are just rationalizing our preexisting beliefs.

Nope, didn't miss this.


The sociologist Nisbet puts the effect murder has on communities better than I ever could in his book Prejudices: A Philosophical Dictionary: "The impact goes far beyond the victim; it goes to family and kindred, indeed to the entire village or town. Tensions compounded of fear, dread, pity, anger, desire for revenge mount quickly and steadily among the inhabitants. A life has been foully taken, a sacred value violated. The tensions become higher as the search takes places, still higher when the murderer is captured and found guilty. Only with his just punishment do the tensions within the locality subside."

Great, so knowing that the guilty goes punished calms our nerves.

Basically, human society needs punishments in order to function and there are certain crimes in certain societies that inspire such outrage that the death penalty is viewed as the most just punishment.

I agree, we need punishment. I think those societies that view capital punishment as the most just punishment (for the given "outrage") are wrong.

That's good for you, but that isn't an argument. By conceding the arguments I made above,
Conceding to what argument, LOL? You "clarified" why there is punishment. That does not legitimize capital punishment as such a form.

Way to remove the relevant parts of what I said.


I can see arguments for the death penalty being unjust. The point is, you haven't made them. Literally everything you've been saying has been the equivalent of a rant.


"it's ultimately the highest punishment a society can use, "
It is? Says who? Who is one to judge the significance of death and its effects on man?

Well, you say so for one.

No, I don't. It's the highest unjust punishment, maybe.

Your reaction says otherwise.

By "ultimate" I mean final, not ultimate in the sense that the death penalty is amazing. The finality has a profound impact on the society although, like I said, our practice of doing executions 20 years after the crime behind closed doors robs that of a huge deal of its potency.


I could only imagine an enculturation of mercilessness and wickedness inspired by a society advocating public executions.


I've yet to see any convincing argument that the right to life is absolute or that retribution is inherently bad and until I see those arguments the only issues that could sway me from supporting the death penalty would be practical aspects. And considering what a clusterfuck the death penalty in the US is, the practical argument stands a good chance of outweighing the benefits of the death penalty.

So, tell me what about capital punishment has you so convinced? Why is it right for you?

At least let me have something to argue against

The burden is on you at the United States is a country that retains the death penalty. Why should we abolish it?

What the U.S does, everyone should do?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Burden's on you!

No, what the US does the US should do unless you give good reasons otherwise. It's a concept called burden of proof

Arguments for capital punishment are universal. The fact that the majority of nations favor no capital punishment means that evidence against capital punishment is [seen as] greater than the evidence for it. I can easily switch to a country that does not allow the capital punishment and then redirect the question to you. Yet still that wouldn't make a difference, since reasoning for either side will remain the same no matter the place. You're just pulling this crap so that you can evade actually putting down your thoughts. You still haven't laid anything out for me, nor have you rebutted against my arguments, or concerns, to say the least (what you call rants).

That you're either too dishonest or too ignorant to understand that a) I *did* provide an argument for capital punishment when I argued that I see little moral difference between it and life imprisonment and specified some advantages and b) The burden is on *you* since *you* made the claim in the OP that there is no place for capital punishment based on a case that was in a country that has capital punishment leads me to declare this conversation over.

Your "argument" was no such thing. That was merely a statement, or claim, perhaps a thesis. (Referring to your first post in the thread).

And I'm afraid you'll dismiss what I have to say if what I argue is not sufficient of an answer to persuade your positioning (not that I'm expecting to change your view anyhow). Will this be the case? Or will you back up your dismissal with evidence to support such a dismissal, perhaps giving your own arguments as well? Maybe this way, a conversation can be had where we exchange thoughts, and even change our minds!

I'm not 100% confident in my viewpoint that capital punishment should be done away with universally. I don't think anyone should be uncompromising when it comes to these kinds of things; I'm seriously up for a change of mind. But if I'm to rescind my position, I need my rationale to be critiqued - I need to understand why I'm wrong.
Material_Girl
Posts: 264
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10/26/2014 10:35:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If someone has committed a heinous crime that has caused multiple people to suffer greatly, I really don't see the moral objection to putting them to death for their crime. I oppose the death penalty in current society due to issues with practicality and cost and such, but primarily because I don't feel too enthusiastic about giving the government the power to murder who it wants to.
http://commissaress.wordpress.com...

Political Compass
Economic Left: -10.00
Social Libertarian: -7.13

Yes, I am an evil godless commie.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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10/26/2014 6:25:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/22/2014 6:13:44 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

Death sentences solve nothing. He should be sentenced to work on a farm and bring life-sustaining things to people. Explain how a death sentence rectifies anything.

Assisted Darwinism for the continuation of the human species.
Thanksfornotraping
Posts: 238
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10/26/2014 9:17:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 6:25:24 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/22/2014 6:13:44 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

Death sentences solve nothing. He should be sentenced to work on a farm and bring life-sustaining things to people. Explain how a death sentence rectifies anything.

Assisted Darwinism for the continuation of the human species.

You assume the person didn't already procreate... And why would you want to kill anyone anyway, if they could help the earth?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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10/26/2014 9:37:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 9:17:44 PM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/26/2014 6:25:24 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/22/2014 6:13:44 AM, Thanksfornotraping wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:57:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.secretsofthefed.com...


Despite these filthy crimes, there is no place for this kind of retributive justice in our society. It only causes more pain, after the fact. What has the boy learned?

Thoughts on this video? On capital punishment?

Death sentences solve nothing. He should be sentenced to work on a farm and bring life-sustaining things to people. Explain how a death sentence rectifies anything.

Assisted Darwinism for the continuation of the human species.

You assume the person didn't already procreate... And why would you want to kill anyone anyway, if they could help the earth?

For rapists, ashes are the best thing they can do to help the earth.