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What makes Socialist Sweden work?

Skynet
Posts: 674
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10/30/2014 10:51:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sweden and other Scandinavian countries are often held up as shining examples of socialist governments working well. Having been there recently, I can tell you, there are reasons why they work better than other socialist ventures, but don't believe ALL the hype.

First thing to know about Sweden. They "all" love their country. On almost every breakfast table, front door post, and car fender, people fly the Swedish flag. They haven't directly been involved in a major conflict in a major way for 300 years, something they are very proud of. The royal family has a squeaky clean public image. Well mannered, personable, and virtually powerless to harm. Second, much of Scandinavia was united into a single nation in the past, with borders fluctuating across groups of mostly homogenous population. They are surrounded by allies who are also distant family. They get out a lot. The public schools have a big emphasis on Swedish ecology, and laws infringe on personal property just enough to make most land public for limited recreation. They are generally hard working, smart, healthy, and well-mannered. More so than the Danes, who make up for lack of politeness with friendliness and fun times.

So you've got all the recipes to make a smooth running culture. But, like other partly socialist countries, they have problems with the system. Their parliament also replaced their version of SS with a giant I.O.U. They have high personal income, VAT, and business taxes. It's discouraging for a healthy person with a growing family to see 1/3-1/2 your paycheck evaporate into programs you don't benefit from. Youth unemployment is very high right now. They have a large influx of foreigners unwilling to integrate. The nation is having a bit of identity crisis because they have mostly rejected their Christian roots, but hold on to some of the trappings for no logically consistent reason. The government recently forced many experienced teachers to retire at a set age. Outside regulation from the E.U. has forced many dairy farmers, for example, to give up on their trade. Staple industries are in some distress due to recent mismanagement.

Admittedly, not all these problems are caused by socialism. My point is, despite all that Sweden has going for it, they still have problems with mutli-culturalism and socialist policies.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/1/2014 3:21:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 10:51:27 PM, Skynet wrote:
Sweden and other Scandinavian countries are often held up as shining examples of socialist governments working well. Having been there recently, I can tell you, there are reasons why they work better than other socialist ventures, but don't believe ALL the hype.

First thing to know about Sweden. They "all" love their country. On almost every breakfast table, front door post, and car fender, people fly the Swedish flag. They haven't directly been involved in a major conflict in a major way for 300 years, something they are very proud of. The royal family has a squeaky clean public image. Well mannered, personable, and virtually powerless to harm. Second, much of Scandinavia was united into a single nation in the past, with borders fluctuating across groups of mostly homogenous population. They are surrounded by allies who are also distant family. They get out a lot. The public schools have a big emphasis on Swedish ecology, and laws infringe on personal property just enough to make most land public for limited recreation. They are generally hard working, smart, healthy, and well-mannered. More so than the Danes, who make up for lack of politeness with friendliness and fun times.

So you've got all the recipes to make a smooth running culture. But, like other partly socialist countries, they have problems with the system. Their parliament also replaced their version of SS with a giant I.O.U. They have high personal income, VAT, and business taxes. It's discouraging for a healthy person with a growing family to see 1/3-1/2 your paycheck evaporate into programs you don't benefit from. Youth unemployment is very high right now. They have a large influx of foreigners unwilling to integrate. The nation is having a bit of identity crisis because they have mostly rejected their Christian roots, but hold on to some of the trappings for no logically consistent reason. The government recently forced many experienced teachers to retire at a set age. Outside regulation from the E.U. has forced many dairy farmers, for example, to give up on their trade. Staple industries are in some distress due to recent mismanagement.

Admittedly, not all these problems are caused by socialism. My point is, despite all that Sweden has going for it, they still have problems with mutli-culturalism and socialist policies.

Sweden is not exactly socialist , in fact their corporate tax is lower then in the US and like Stefan Molyneux has pointed out Sweden ranks high at the 'easiness to do business' index , they are economically free in some ways. http://www.freetheworld.com...
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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11/2/2014 10:25:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/30/2014 10:51:27 PM, Skynet wrote:
Sweden and other Scandinavian countries are often held up as shining examples of socialist governments working well. Having been there recently, I can tell you, there are reasons why they work better than other socialist ventures, but don't believe ALL the hype.

First thing to know about Sweden. They "all" love their country. On almost every breakfast table, front door post, and car fender, people fly the Swedish flag. They haven't directly been involved in a major conflict in a major way for 300 years, something they are very proud of. The royal family has a squeaky clean public image. Well mannered, personable, and virtually powerless to harm. Second, much of Scandinavia was united into a single nation in the past, with borders fluctuating across groups of mostly homogenous population. They are surrounded by allies who are also distant family. They get out a lot. The public schools have a big emphasis on Swedish ecology, and laws infringe on personal property just enough to make most land public for limited recreation. They are generally hard working, smart, healthy, and well-mannered. More so than the Danes, who make up for lack of politeness with friendliness and fun times.

So you've got all the recipes to make a smooth running culture. But, like other partly socialist countries, they have problems with the system. Their parliament also replaced their version of SS with a giant I.O.U. They have high personal income, VAT, and business taxes. It's discouraging for a healthy person with a growing family to see 1/3-1/2 your paycheck evaporate into programs you don't benefit from. Youth unemployment is very high right now. They have a large influx of foreigners unwilling to integrate. The nation is having a bit of identity crisis because they have mostly rejected their Christian roots, but hold on to some of the trappings for no logically consistent reason. The government recently forced many experienced teachers to retire at a set age. Outside regulation from the E.U. has forced many dairy farmers, for example, to give up on their trade. Staple industries are in some distress due to recent mismanagement.

Admittedly, not all these problems are caused by socialism. My point is, despite all that Sweden has going for it, they still have problems with mutli-culturalism and socialist policies.

Almost all modern democracies are "more Socialist" than America. All counrties have problems if you look close enough.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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11/4/2014 10:38:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:21:15 AM, SebUK wrote:
At 10/30/2014 10:51:27 PM, Skynet wrote:
Sweden and other Scandinavian countries are often held up as shining examples of socialist governments working well. Having been there recently, I can tell you, there are reasons why they work better than other socialist ventures, but don't believe ALL the hype.

First thing to know about Sweden. They "all" love their country. On almost every breakfast table, front door post, and car fender, people fly the Swedish flag. They haven't directly been involved in a major conflict in a major way for 300 years, something they are very proud of. The royal family has a squeaky clean public image. Well mannered, personable, and virtually powerless to harm. Second, much of Scandinavia was united into a single nation in the past, with borders fluctuating across groups of mostly homogenous population. They are surrounded by allies who are also distant family. They get out a lot. The public schools have a big emphasis on Swedish ecology, and laws infringe on personal property just enough to make most land public for limited recreation. They are generally hard working, smart, healthy, and well-mannered. More so than the Danes, who make up for lack of politeness with friendliness and fun times.

So you've got all the recipes to make a smooth running culture. But, like other partly socialist countries, they have problems with the system. Their parliament also replaced their version of SS with a giant I.O.U. They have high personal income, VAT, and business taxes. It's discouraging for a healthy person with a growing family to see 1/3-1/2 your paycheck evaporate into programs you don't benefit from. Youth unemployment is very high right now. They have a large influx of foreigners unwilling to integrate. The nation is having a bit of identity crisis because they have mostly rejected their Christian roots, but hold on to some of the trappings for no logically consistent reason. The government recently forced many experienced teachers to retire at a set age. Outside regulation from the E.U. has forced many dairy farmers, for example, to give up on their trade. Staple industries are in some distress due to recent mismanagement.

Admittedly, not all these problems are caused by socialism. My point is, despite all that Sweden has going for it, they still have problems with mutli-culturalism and socialist policies.

Sweden is not exactly socialist , in fact their corporate tax is lower then in the US and like Stefan Molyneux has pointed out Sweden ranks high at the 'easiness to do business' index , they are economically free in some ways. http://www.freetheworld.com...

I'm not trying to say Sweden is more or less socialist than anyone else. There are a lot of facets of socialism, and I know in some ways America is farther left. This is an answer to people always holding up Scandinavian countries as shining examples of how socialism works. It still has the same problems as it does over there, but they have other societal advantages the US as a whole doesn't have that help compensate for some of the disadvantages socialism brings.

They function pretty well DESPITE socialism.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/4/2014 12:02:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I will not speak for all Scandinavian countries, as I am mostly familiar with Denmark. The truth is that socialism is not an active political system here. Nor is there a good ground to consider it ideal for all other societies, for there are cultural reasons, too, for why the mixed market works with a strong welfare state. The American public is mislead on how well things are, nevertheless. In terms of healthcare, Denmark spends slightly less on it than America, and is only ranked better by negligible numbers by the WHO. [http://en.wikipedia.org...] There are many segments of the system that can be heavily criticized, and it irritates me that far left Americans can't put the data under scrutiny.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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11/4/2014 3:35:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 12:02:47 PM, Mirza wrote:
I will not speak for all Scandinavian countries, as I am mostly familiar with Denmark. The truth is that socialism is not an active political system here. Nor is there a good ground to consider it ideal for all other societies, for there are cultural reasons, too, for why the mixed market works with a strong welfare state. The American public is mislead on how well things are, nevertheless. In terms of healthcare, Denmark spends slightly less on it than America, and is only ranked better by negligible numbers by the WHO. [http://en.wikipedia.org...] There are many segments of the system that can be heavily criticized, and it irritates me that far left Americans can't put the data under scrutiny.

I wouldn't call people who support a Swedish social-democratic model "far left".
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/4/2014 3:42:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 3:35:58 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I wouldn't call people who support a Swedish social-democratic model "far left".
They are not so by necessity, although I find them to be more fanatically supportive of the Scandinavian model than those leaning closer to the political centre. Regardless, whoever supports the political and economic policies of Northern Europe should do so with careful examination first, for it is far from the idealized utopian model it is made to seem like.