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Can Libertarians believe in contraception?

SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/1/2014 9:30:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

I am sorry for misunderstanding you. Can we start over?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/2/2014 12:36:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

Believing in mandatory contraception coverage makes you less of a minarchist. But it's okay; most Conservatives generally have authoritarian stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/2/2014 12:42:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:36:40 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

Believing in mandatory contraception coverage makes you less of a minarchist. But it's okay; most Conservatives generally have authoritarian stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.

I am not a conservative or a liberal. I am a minarchist Libertarian.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/2/2014 12:56:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:42:25 AM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/2/2014 12:36:40 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

Believing in mandatory contraception coverage makes you less of a minarchist. But it's okay; most Conservatives generally have authoritarian stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.

I am not a conservative or a liberal. I am a minarchist Libertarian.

Do you believe that the Government should have a border fence? Do you believe that the Government should enforce a minimum wage? Do you believe in social security? Do you believe in the Affordable Care Act?
Answering yes to any of the above means that you are not a hardcore Minarchist.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/2/2014 7:45:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 9:30:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

I am sorry for misunderstanding you. Can we start over?

Sure and it's okay. If you misunderstood me does this mean you don't really believe the government should fund contraception or ? Because if you want we can cancel the debate then .
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/2/2014 9:45:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:36:40 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

Believing in mandatory contraception coverage makes you less of a minarchist. But it's okay; most Conservatives generally have authoritarian stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.

You did not commit the 'No True Scotsman' Fallacy . I had this argument with her earlier . Using the 'No True Scotsman' Fallacy is only a good way argue if the assumption is unreasonable such as -All men should treat woman like princesses , no real man treats her woman bad. The problem here is that being male is a purely biological issue however arguing that it's not a good idea to identify as Y when you are really X is a REASONABLE claim. 'Example: Angus declares that Scotsmen do not put sugar on their porridge, to which Lachlan points out that he is a Scotsman and puts sugar on his porridge. Furious, like a true Scot, Angus yells that no true Scotsman sugars his porridge. ' Change this to SebUK declares that no true Libertarian believes in Tyranny of the government in the sphere of economics, to which SitaraMusic replies that it is not a belief in economic freedom that makes her Libertarian - Well this is not a valid argument because unlike in the example presented it is things like Economic Liberty and Personal Choice that make a Libertarian in other words we are discussing a scenario in which in fact not putting sugar on your porridge makes you a Scotsman
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/2/2014 12:54:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 7:45:02 AM, SebUK wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:30:31 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

I am sorry for misunderstanding you. Can we start over?

Sure and it's okay. If you misunderstood me does this mean you don't really believe the government should fund contraception or ? Because if you want we can cancel the debate then .

Yeah I am not saying that the government should fund everything. I am sorry for not being clear.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/2/2014 12:58:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 12:56:07 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/2/2014 12:42:25 AM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/2/2014 12:36:40 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:59:50 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:45:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:29:19 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/1/2014 9:23:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Basically you're a feminist Libertarian.

Yes. I am a minarchist Libertarian feminist.

How are you a Minarchist when you want the Government to force businesses to provide birth control?
No true Scotsman fallacy. Believing in contraception does not make me less of a minarchist. I just think that workers should be compensated for their labor. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

Believing in mandatory contraception coverage makes you less of a minarchist. But it's okay; most Conservatives generally have authoritarian stances on things like abortion and gay marriage.

I am not a conservative or a liberal. I am a minarchist Libertarian.

Do you believe that the Government should have a border fence? Do you believe that the Government should enforce a minimum wage? Do you believe in social security? Do you believe in the Affordable Care Act?
Answering yes to any of the above means that you are not a hardcore Minarchist.
I support free trade, my dear.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/2/2014 1:46:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I never did like the term "minarchist" since it is a belief in "small" government but what is "small"? And what things should this "small" government do?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/2/2014 6:32:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:23:35 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Someone said that I am not a Libertarian because I believe in contraception. I disagree with their claim and assert that Libertarians can believe in contraception.

Well, to state an obvious and unoriginal thought, one might wish that the parents of "libertarians" (or ultracapitalists, as Noam Chomsky more aptly calls them) were bigger believers in, and more diligently practiced birth control.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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11/2/2014 6:35:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 1:46:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I never did like the term "minarchist" since it is a belief in "small" government but what is "small"? And what things should this "small" government do?

I like the term minarchist because I feel that monarchism is more practical than anarchism.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/2/2014 6:42:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

Blah, blah, we should all exist as atomized individuals with government functioning to do pretty much nothing except ensure that capitalists continue to have the license to obscenely overaccumulate capital & wealth, and to exploit their fellow human beings; mm-hmm, heaven forbid that an enlightened recognition of the social interdependence of the members of a society ever lead to government functioning as anything more than a watchman for the interests of capitalist fat cats; blah ...
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/3/2014 9:50:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 6:35:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/2/2014 1:46:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I never did like the term "minarchist" since it is a belief in "small" government but what is "small"? And what things should this "small" government do?

I like the term minarchist because I feel that monarchism is more practical than anarchism.

The problem that I have is that "small" doesn't indicate a leaning nor a real measurement on size.

Let's say the government currently does 26 things, A - Z. Person 1 might say, "government should only be doing A, B, C, D, and E." Just 5 of the 26. That certainly makes them wanting a smaller government than the current. However, person 2 might say "government should only be doing V, W, X, Y, and Z." That is also only 5 of 26 but they are very different things. They can easily be as different as liberal and conservative.

Likewise, person 3 might say, "government should only be doing A and D, how can you call yourself a miniarchist when you support B, C, and E?!" At what size is the line drawn between miniarchist and not?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/3/2014 10:41:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 6:42:18 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

Blah, blah, we should all exist as atomized individuals with government functioning to do pretty much nothing except ensure that capitalists continue to have the license to obscenely overaccumulate capital & wealth, and to exploit their fellow human beings; mm-hmm, heaven forbid that an enlightened recognition of the social interdependence of the members of a society ever lead to government functioning as anything more than a watchman for the interests of capitalist fat cats; blah ...

Who asked you your opinion?
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
SebUK
Posts: 850
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11/3/2014 10:42:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/2/2014 6:42:18 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

Blah, blah, we should all exist as atomized individuals with government functioning to do pretty much nothing except ensure that capitalists continue to have the license to obscenely overaccumulate capital & wealth, and to exploit their fellow human beings; mm-hmm, heaven forbid that an enlightened recognition of the social interdependence of the members of a society ever lead to government functioning as anything more than a watchman for the interests of capitalist fat cats; blah ...

A small reminder, http://www.debate.org...
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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11/3/2014 3:30:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 10:42:53 AM, SebUK wrote:
At 11/2/2014 6:42:18 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/1/2014 3:53:18 PM, SebUK wrote:
For anyone visiting this post , just to clarify I didn't say Libertarians can't believe in contraception but simply stated that Libertarians shouldn't believe that the government should force all Employers to pay for their Employees contraception as this goes against the Libertarian ideas of Economic Freedom and Personal Liberty and it also goes against the Libertarian idea that the government should serve to protect Lives , Liberty and Property. :) .

Blah, blah, we should all exist as atomized individuals with government functioning to do pretty much nothing except ensure that capitalists continue to have the license to obscenely overaccumulate capital & wealth, and to exploit their fellow human beings; mm-hmm, heaven forbid that an enlightened recognition of the social interdependence of the members of a society ever lead to government functioning as anything more than a watchman for the interests of capitalist fat cats; blah ...

A small reminder, http://www.debate.org...

And let me remind you that back then J.Kenyon and the "libertarian", ancap, and other pro-capitalist cliques dominated the site, ergo anyone espousing socialist views wasn't likely to fair well in a debate. Also, I didn't play by the rules, which is what turned many voters against me. And of course DDO is a microcosm of a society and culture in which most people have been thoroughly programmed with a naively negative opinion of communism. In fact the mere word instantly turns many off, and automatically closes their minds. That is, Mr. Kenyon had a popular bias working in his favor and virtually assured his victory merely by assigning the label "communist" to the anti-capitalist point of view. In short, given these circumstance one can hardly judge the merits of my point of view by the outcome of the debate in question.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.