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Should Slander/Libel Be Banned?

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/30/2010 1:48:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Should slander and libel be banned? For me this is sort of a tough question. I am against any and all authority, so I guess I can't say I'd want a legal ban against it. But if someone got up on a public podium and said GeoLaureate is right wing, young earth creationist promoting anti-gay marriage laws, someone's getting shot in the face.

Hate speech is ok, speech inciting violence is ok, and even speech commanding genocide is ok. Why? Because hate speech is obviously hate inspired opinions. And speech commanding or inciting violence is ok because you don't have to jump off a bridge because your friend tells you to.

But slanderous lies about a person are simply false and defamatory and ought to be either silenced or an equally public refutation or denouncement.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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4/30/2010 1:53:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Slippery slope, no. If this is banned, it opens the door for a lot of bad things. It's probably better to deal with what comes than create such a potentially damaging precedent.
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/30/2010 1:56:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
mmm... tough.

I like the Idea of suing people for damages sustained... BUT then you get companies trying to sue people for 'slander' even when slander isn't occurring, just to try to silence them...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/30/2010 2:03:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is a matter of damage being done. What is the cost, and is it the result of malicious intentional untruths. Can the costs be quantified, or verified as a result of the slander or libel.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/30/2010 2:12:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 1:58:41 PM, mongeese wrote:
If somebody's on the podium defaming you, Geo, argue with them, and back yourself up with facts.

This.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/30/2010 2:17:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
By definition, your reputation is in other people's heads. You have no ownership of it, none of your rights are violated by people slandering or libelling you.

People should be civilly liable for genuine fraud damages in matters that might otherwise come up in slander/libel laws-- but to the people who are told the lie, not the people who the lie is about.
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mattrodstrom
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4/30/2010 2:18:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:15:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ban hate speech

mmm... what do you think about southpark??? :/

I think hatespeech ought not be banned.

Who's to tell me who to hate?

Nazis? check!

Fascists? check!

Satanists? check!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/30/2010 2:20:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:18:36 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:15:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ban hate speech

mmm... what do you think about southpark??? :/

I think hatespeech ought not be banned.

Who's to tell me who to hate?

Nazis? check!

Fascists? check!

Satanists? check!
Are you listing people who you hate?

If so what's your prob with Satnists mon? :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
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4/30/2010 2:23:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:20:03 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:18:36 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:15:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ban hate speech

mmm... what do you think about southpark??? :/

I think hatespeech ought not be banned.

Who's to tell me who to hate?

Nazis? check!

Fascists? check!

Satanists? check!
Are you listing people who you hate?

If so what's your prob with Satnists mon? :P

no I was listing the people who it would be O.K. to hate.. like in society today.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/30/2010 2:24:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:15:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ban hate speech and slander.

So you promise never to say you hate someone/something again?
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/30/2010 2:28:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:24:33 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:15:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ban hate speech and slander.

So you promise never to say you hate someone/something again?

I was referring more along the lines of hate speech that preaches that all Jews should be killed or that blacks should go back to being slaves. That kind of hate speech should be banned.
I-am-a-panda
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4/30/2010 2:40:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:25:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
Slander puts burdens on people, sometimes more than they can handle. This is harm. Is harming others legal?

What's slander is relative.
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/30/2010 2:40:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 1:58:41 PM, mongeese wrote:
If somebody's on the podium defaming you, Geo, argue with them, and back yourself up with facts.

Not always a viable option. For example, there's a site dedicated to defaming David Icke by calling him a Freemason anti-Semite holocaust denier and he cant do much about it except refute the claims on his own site.

Or let's say someone who has access to public mediums and you dont. You don't have the opportunity to defend yourself.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/30/2010 2:42:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I like this bann I want to see a prosecuter after losing a case ceing sued fo slander...!!

Come on how could this even uphold the law..!!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/30/2010 2:42:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:40:34 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
What's slander is relative.
If you spread false information about someone and harm a person with that, then you are doing something that is already illegal, namely harming another person.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/30/2010 2:42:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:28:26 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

I was referring more along the lines of hate speech that preaches that all Jews should be killed or that blacks should go back to being slaves. That kind of hate speech should be banned.

Why?
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/30/2010 2:45:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:44:11 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:42:56 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Why?
It can lead to violence. Violence is harm. Harming others than oneself is illegal.

Yea, what you said. xD You beat me to it.
I-am-a-panda
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4/30/2010 2:46:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:42:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:40:34 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
What's slander is relative.
If you spread false information about someone and harm a person with that, then you are doing something that is already illegal, namely harming another person.

But its false information. Why worry about it?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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4/30/2010 2:48:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:44:11 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:42:56 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Why?
It can lead to violence. Violence is harm. Harming others than oneself is illegal.

Physically is illegally. I could call you skinny. To some people they wouldn't care. But others would cry, and over react, and take it badly. The law can be bent
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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4/30/2010 2:49:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:46:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
But its false information. Why worry about it?

Because the people that the slanderer/libeler is spreading the false information to does not know that the information if false. If I wrote or spoke about how X is a child rapist, and X is a teacher, it is more than likely that X will be fired.
Mirza
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4/30/2010 2:49:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:46:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
But its false information. Why worry about it?
Because it can put a person in danger. If you live in a ghetto and someone spreads lies about you, such as that you spoke negatively about black people, then you can have gangs after you, and how would you live with that? This is unacceptable and is already prohibited by law, and such things can be caused by slander. Slander is therefore harming a society and should be banned, as much as anything harming others than an individual himself should be banned. You can cut down whatever tree you want, but do not let it fall on my roof.
I-am-a-panda
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4/30/2010 2:50:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:49:23 PM, Nags wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:46:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
But its false information. Why worry about it?

Because the people that the slanderer/libeler is spreading the false information to does not know that the information if false. If I wrote or spoke about how X is a child rapist, and X is a teacher, it is more than likely that X will be fired.

And if X can sufficiently prove that information is false, they get the job back.

Besides, an employer that listens to false information is not a good employer for a worker.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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4/30/2010 2:50:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:45:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:44:11 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/30/2010 2:42:56 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Why?
It can lead to violence. Violence is harm. Harming others than oneself is illegal.

Yea, what you said. xD You beat me to it.

Anything can lead to violence. And just because something can or will lead to violence, doesn't mean that that something should be illegal.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/30/2010 2:51:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:50:30 PM, Nags wrote:

Anything can lead to violence. And just because something can or will lead to violence, doesn't mean that that something should be illegal.

This.
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Xer
Posts: 7,776
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4/30/2010 2:51:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:50:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
And if X can sufficiently prove that information is false, they get the job back.

Probably not. Regardless, you already lost your job and your reputation is destroyed.

Besides, an employer that listens to false information is not a good employer for a worker.

The employer wouldn't know the information is false.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/30/2010 2:51:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/30/2010 2:45:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

Yea, what you said. xD You beat me to it.

Haha he beat you to yet another terrible argument.
President of DDO