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What is Israel trying to do?

frbnsn
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11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!
RulerOfNone
Posts: 43
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11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.
Greyparrot
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11/12/2014 10:01:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Then it's not genocide. Find another word.
Wocambs
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11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/12/2014 11:32:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Then evidently you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

What "genocides" are you referring to exactly? You should know that the only people that have been killed recently ARE Israelis because of terror attacks being launched by Palestinians. In Jerusalem they have been rioting, desecrating the Temple Mount and attacking Israeli citizens--as well as in Tel Aviv where Israeli solders were recently stabbed and killed.

As for Gaza, Hamas initiated that conflict by firing a barrage of rockets and missiles (over 4500) into Israeli territory. They also established an underground terror network and made three attempts at ARMED infiltration of Israeli towns. This is exactly why Israel decided to enter into Gaza--to destroy these tunnels.

That btw were built in civilian neighbourhoods AND under civilian homes. Hamas exploits its civilian population and during conflict regularly deploys the use of "human shields". Examples of them firing and storing weaponry from civilian places is further proof of this. During the summer, over three UN schools were found to have rockets inside--as well as that Mosques and homes were also found with guns/booby traps, and were used as rocket launch sites.

Some Hamas rockets were even misfired at Gaza civilians themselves.

So get your facts right before making judgments.
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Emilrose
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11/12/2014 11:35:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.

This is laughable. You do realise that Palestinians actually live in Israeli neighbourhoods and in so-callled Israeli "settlements"?

Arabs also willingly SELL individual property to Israeli citizens.
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socialpinko
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11/12/2014 11:39:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Call out Israel's lack of concern for Palestinian life all you want (I'll agree), but invoking Nazism for rhetorical effect is extremely offensive.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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: I disagree.
Emilrose
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11/12/2014 11:44:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

I'd advise that you research some history and learn what a "Nazi" actually is.

I don't see any gas chambers or ovens in which the Palestinians are burned alive in. I don't see them randomly getting shot in the streets just for being Arab or Palestinian. I don't see them being put into actual death camps were they have absolutely NO freedom whatsoever. I don't see their Mosques being rioted against and smashed. I don't see them being forced to work in labour camps with NO food and no proper water and nothing to survive on. I don't see heaps of emaciated Palestinian bodies laying on top of each other. I don't see Palestinians having their clothes and possessions stolen, having all their hair shaved off and being forced to walk around either naked or in pyjamas.

Until anyone does see that, they have absolutely right to ever accuse Israel of being "Nazi-like".
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Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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11/12/2014 12:07:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 11:35:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.

This is laughable. You do realise that Palestinians actually live in Israeli neighbourhoods and in so-callled Israeli "settlements"?

Arabs also willingly SELL individual property to Israeli citizens.

Actually I don't find seizing land or turning children into piles of body parts particularly amusing. Didn't the Israeli government seize another thousand acres of the West Bank this September?

Until anyone does see that, they have absolutely right to ever accuse Israel of being "Nazi-like".

It's pretty cheap to accuse Israel of being 'Nazi-like', but it seems just as cheap to dismiss someone's criticism of Israel because they happened to use that phrase by simply talking about how bad the Nazis were.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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11/12/2014 12:20:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You are correct, they are dumb, they should just nuke Iran and Isis and Palestine and then there will be middle east peace. Those stupid muslims won't stop murdering untill they are dead.
FantumHeist
Posts: 40
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11/12/2014 12:25:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Israel is trying to piss us off
Sincerely, FantumHeist a game developer and young scientist and Visionary
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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11/12/2014 12:26:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To even suggest the Nazis were remotely as humane as Israelis is indicative of the highest form of Nazi worship and fanaticism.

You should be shamed.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/12/2014 12:41:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 12:07:25 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:35:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.

This is laughable. You do realise that Palestinians actually live in Israeli neighbourhoods and in so-callled Israeli "settlements"?

Arabs also willingly SELL individual property to Israeli citizens.

Actually I don't find seizing land or turning children into piles of body parts particularly amusing. Didn't the Israeli government seize another thousand acres of the West Bank this September?

As I've previously stated, the borders between Israeli controlled areas of the Jerusalem and Palestinian are ONLY UN armistice, therefore they are not definable and do not count in actual legal setting. From 1948 to 1967, Jerusalem and the West Bank belonged to Jordan--not Palestine.

As for your second statement, what body parts? Granted that's the kind of behaviour Hamas would execute.

Until anyone does see that, they have absolutely right to ever accuse Israel of being "Nazi-like".

It's pretty cheap to accuse Israel of being 'Nazi-like', but it seems just as cheap to dismiss someone's criticism of Israel because they happened to use that phrase by simply talking about how bad the Nazis were.

It's very cheap--not to mention highly insulting to those who did suffer at the cruel hands of the Nazi and the relatives that have had to live with that. What happened on the death camps and Nazi Germany was incomprehensibly inhumane and bares no comparison to anything that has EVER to the Palestinians.

As I highlighted, are they forced into gas chambers and burning ovens? NO. Any suffering that is endured by the Palestinian people is largely attributed to the oppressive terror regime they live under, Gaza being the main example.

This is a system in which Palestinians are manipulated into believing that Israel is "the enemy", and in which they are indoctrinate their children with falsified history and anti-Jewish propaganda.

You contradict your own statement when with: "how bad the Nazis were", because Israel never HAS and never will be anywhere that bad.

In fact, Israel had tried on numerous occasions to appease. Such as handing Gaza over, offering Palestine its own state, treating Palestinians in its hospitals, offering full citizenship rights, having an independent Arab representation in the Knesset, and a while host of other things.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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11/12/2014 1:52:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 12:41:13 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 12:07:25 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:35:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.

This is laughable. You do realise that Palestinians actually live in Israeli neighbourhoods and in so-callled Israeli "settlements"?

Arabs also willingly SELL individual property to Israeli citizens.

Actually I don't find seizing land or turning children into piles of body parts particularly amusing. Didn't the Israeli government seize another thousand acres of the West Bank this September?

As I've previously stated, the borders between Israeli controlled areas of the Jerusalem and Palestinian are ONLY UN armistice, therefore they are not definable and do not count in actual legal setting. From 1948 to 1967, Jerusalem and the West Bank belonged to Jordan--not Palestine.

As for your second statement, what body parts? Granted that's the kind of behaviour Hamas would execute.

The hundreds of children who have been blown to pieces? I mean, how many dead Israeli kids can you blame Hamas missiles for exactly? Your aggression simply increases support for them, anyway. As far as I am aware seizing land from Jordan

I also have no idea what you're talking about concerning the settlements. Are you claiming it is a loophole? Everyone appears to classify it as a 'seizure'.
http://www.timesofisrael.com...
http://www.aljazeera.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

They took land and classified it as 'state land', didn't they? I would call it a seizure if someone suddenly classified my land as the property of the state.


Until anyone does see that, they have absolutely right to ever accuse Israel of being "Nazi-like".

It's pretty cheap to accuse Israel of being 'Nazi-like', but it seems just as cheap to dismiss someone's criticism of Israel because they happened to use that phrase by simply talking about how bad the Nazis were.

It's very cheap--not to mention highly insulting to those who did suffer at the cruel hands of the Nazi and the relatives that have had to live with that. What happened on the death camps and Nazi Germany was incomprehensibly inhumane and bares no comparison to anything that has EVER to the Palestinians.

As I highlighted, are they forced into gas chambers and burning ovens? NO. Any suffering that is endured by the Palestinian people is largely attributed to the oppressive terror regime they live under, Gaza being the main example.

This is a system in which Palestinians are manipulated into believing that Israel is "the enemy", and in which they are indoctrinate their children with falsified history and anti-Jewish propaganda.

You contradict your own statement when with: "how bad the Nazis were", because Israel never HAS and never will be anywhere that bad.

In fact, Israel had tried on numerous occasions to appease. Such as handing Gaza over, offering Palestine its own state, treating Palestinians in its hospitals, offering full citizenship rights, having an independent Arab representation in the Knesset, and a while host of other things.

To my knowledge Israel never offered the Palestinians their own fully-autonomous state, but correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding that the United States vetoed the two-state solution which everyone favoured apart from the US and Israel. Acts of 'appeasement' don't mean much if you're literally just trying to get them to accept some degree of subjugation.

Also, I wasn't trying to claim that Israel is anything at all like Nazi Germany, I was just saying that the claim that Israel is significantly comparable to the Nazis is pretty silly, and it's essentially just as silly to talk about how they aren't like the Nazis as if this proves that the government is acting justly.

I may talk about how your military blows up civilians, a large proportion of which happen to be children, but I don't think Israel is 'particularly bad'. If we're talking about making lists of the most evil states in history then I assure you Israel is very far down the list. I do think, though, that the many actions of Israel are unjust, and not only that, but they promote violent and hateful attitudes. The West is to a great extent affiliated with Israel, and I am a citizen of the West, so it seems I have a great responsibility to criticise its actions. I also have the responsibility to criticise the actions and beliefs of the other side, but I I don't seem to be in contact with anyone on the 'other side', and if we sit here criticising people who want to destroy Israel then not only am I criticising the actions of others when I could be criticising 'our' actions, but it also seems to distort the argument, as if we're arguing over whether its right to think that Israel should be destroyed or right to think that Israel should continue behaving as it does, when really both of those positions are false. It also seems that as Israel is the far more powerful and educated entity, demanding that the Palestinians prove themselves to be a nation of reincarnated Gandhis before we bother demanding that Israel acts with peaceful and fair intentions is completely the wrong way to approach the situation. I mean, the side which is not suffering poverty and great loss of innocent life is surely the one we expect to take greater responsibility for bringing about peace.
Emilrose
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11/12/2014 2:43:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 1:52:32 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 12:41:13 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 12:07:25 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:35:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 11/12/2014 11:26:25 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Yeah, seems like their aim is to take all of the land worth having and let the Palestinians live in isolated cantons. It's a joke when people defend their actions by pointing out that the Palestinians are not saints, on account of some of them resorting to the only (ineffective) violent means they have of retaliating against Israeli occupation and violence.

This is laughable. You do realise that Palestinians actually live in Israeli neighbourhoods and in so-callled Israeli "settlements"?

Arabs also willingly SELL individual property to Israeli citizens.

Actually I don't find seizing land or turning children into piles of body parts particularly amusing. Didn't the Israeli government seize another thousand acres of the West Bank this September?

As I've previously stated, the borders between Israeli controlled areas of the Jerusalem and Palestinian are ONLY UN armistice, therefore they are not definable and do not count in actual legal setting. From 1948 to 1967, Jerusalem and the West Bank belonged to Jordan--not Palestine.

As for your second statement, what body parts? Granted that's the kind of behaviour Hamas would execute.

The hundreds of children who have been blown to pieces? I mean, how many dead Israeli kids can you blame Hamas missiles for exactly? Your aggression simply increases support for them, anyway. As far as I am aware seizing land from Jordan

I also have no idea what you're talking about concerning the settlements. Are you claiming it is a loophole? Everyone appears to classify it as a 'seizure'.
http://www.timesofisrael.com...
http://www.aljazeera.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

They took land and classified it as 'state land', didn't they? I would call it a seizure if someone suddenly classified my land as the property of the state.


Until anyone does see that, they have absolutely right to ever accuse Israel of being "Nazi-like".

It's pretty cheap to accuse Israel of being 'Nazi-like', but it seems just as cheap to dismiss someone's criticism of Israel because they happened to use that phrase by simply talking about how bad the Nazis were.

It's very cheap--not to mention highly insulting to those who did suffer at the cruel hands of the Nazi and the relatives that have had to live with that. What happened on the death camps and Nazi Germany was incomprehensibly inhumane and bares no comparison to anything that has EVER to the Palestinians.

As I highlighted, are they forced into gas chambers and burning ovens? NO. Any suffering that is endured by the Palestinian people is largely attributed to the oppressive terror regime they live under, Gaza being the main example.

This is a system in which Palestinians are manipulated into believing that Israel is "the enemy", and in which they are indoctrinate their children with falsified history and anti-Jewish propaganda.

You contradict your own statement when with: "how bad the Nazis were", because Israel never HAS and never will be anywhere that bad.

In fact, Israel had tried on numerous occasions to appease. Such as handing Gaza over, offering Palestine its own state, treating Palestinians in its hospitals, offering full citizenship rights, having an independent Arab representation in the Knesset, and a while host of other things.

To my knowledge Israel never offered the Palestinians their own fully-autonomous state, but correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding that the United States vetoed the two-state solution which everyone favoured apart from the US and Israel. Acts of 'appeasement' don't mean much if you're literally just trying to get them to accept some degree of subjugation.

Israel absolutely offered Palestine it's OWN state. However, as the PLO initially refused this opportunity and walked out of the negotiations, the plan was cancelled. Later attempts to create a Palestine state were undermined by Palestinian refusal to recognise Israel as a state.

However--this has consistently been refused. Continuously attacking Israel via rockets/kidnapps/weapon attacks, has also done nothing to enhance the prospect of a real Palestine state. After all, you can you agree to a state that executes such aggressive behaviour towards you?

Also, I wasn't trying to claim that Israel is anything at all like Nazi Germany, I was just saying that the claim that Israel is significantly comparable to the Nazis is pretty silly, and it's essentially just as silly to talk about how they aren't like the Nazis as if this proves that the government is acting justly.

I may talk about how your military blows up civilians, a large proportion of which happen to be children, but I don't think Israel is 'particularly bad'. If we're talking about making lists of the most evil states in history then I assure you Israel is very far down the list. I do think, though, that the many actions of Israel are unjust, and not only that, but they promote violent and hateful attitudes. The West is to a great extent affiliated with Israel, and I am a citizen of the West, so it seems I have a great responsibility to criticise its actions. I also have the responsibility to criticise the actions and beliefs of the other side, but I I don't seem to be in contact with anyone on the 'other side', and if we sit here criticising people who want to destroy Israel then not only am I criticising the actions of others when I could be criticising 'our' actions, but it also seems to distort the argument, as if we're arguing over whether its right to think that Israel should be destroyed or right to think that Israel should continue behaving as it does, when really both of those positions are false. It also seems that as Israel is the far more powerful and educated entity, demanding that the Palestinians prove themselves to be a nation of reincarnated Gandhis before we bother demanding that Israel acts with peaceful and fair intentions is completely the wrong way to approach the situation. I mean, the side which is not suffering poverty and great loss of innocent life is surely the one we expect to take greater responsibility for bringing about peace.

The IDF does NOT purposely blow up civilians and especially children. Hamas (it's actually fairly obvious) exploit their civilian population and fire/store weaponry from civilian places. For example, numbers of IDF attacks were cancelled on the very basis of there being civilians within the populace--and there's recorded evidence to prove it.

Israel is not demanding any "reincarnation" of Ghandi's. The ONLY ask is that it be recognised and that terror attacks stop being launched on citizens.

Just look at recent events in Israel!
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

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John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Vox_Veritas
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11/12/2014 3:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

Prove that just because Palestinians were living on the land means that the land is theirs. Squatters have no legitimate claim to a property, so prove that the Palestinians have a right to the land that is "seized" by the Israeli Government.
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charleslb
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11/12/2014 4:01:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

For a smart fellow this was certainly a rather stupid comeback.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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11/12/2014 4:05:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

Yes, the behavior of the state of Israel is indeed quite hegemonic, but in the United States speaking this bit of truth gets one stigmatized as an anti-Semite, even though the victims of Israel whom one supports are Semitic peoples!
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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11/12/2014 4:07:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 11:39:08 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:59:31 AM, RulerOfNone wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

This isn't about skin color, this is an attempted elimination of the Palestinian people. Israel wants more land, and they're looking more and more Nazi-like with each tragedy they cause.

That's not to say that Palestine isn't partially at fault as well, what with the constant attacks on Israel, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation.

Call out Israel's lack of concern for Palestinian life all you want (I'll agree), but invoking Nazism for rhetorical effect is extremely offensive.

Ditto.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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11/12/2014 5:05:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 2:43:14 PM, Emilrose wrote:
Israel absolutely offered Palestine it's OWN state. However, as the PLO initially refused this opportunity and walked out of the negotiations, the plan was cancelled. Later attempts to create a Palestine state were undermined by Palestinian refusal to recognise Israel as a state.

So I have been looking into it, and it seems that the primary barrier for peace, aside from the bloodshed, is 'Israel as a Jewish state' (emphasis on the 'Jewish' part) and the Palestinian 'right of return'. What's your opinion on that? I really don't know what the implications are.

However--this has consistently been refused. Continuously attacking Israel via rockets/kidnapps/weapon attacks, has also done nothing to enhance the prospect of a real Palestine state. After all, you can you agree to a state that executes such aggressive behaviour towards you?
The IDF does NOT purposely blow up civilians and especially children. Hamas (it's actually fairly obvious) exploit their civilian population and fire/store weaponry from civilian places. For example, numbers of IDF attacks were cancelled on the very basis of there being civilians within the populace--and there's recorded evidence to prove it.

Israel is not demanding any "reincarnation" of Ghandi's. The ONLY ask is that it be recognised and that terror attacks stop being launched on citizens.

Just look at recent events in Israel!

Indeed, Hamas appears perfectly willing to be shielded by its citizens - which isn't the same as 'using human shields' - I don't see that using disproportionate force which they are perfectly aware will cause huge civilian casualties is the only option Israel has available. If you want to make that argument, then you may as well accept that Hamas are being perfectly justified since they're using the only means they have to 'punish' Israel. Israel clearly has a very advanced military, and Hamas does not even have a real military. If Hamas did not integrate itself in the population, I'm sure it would be immediately annihilated. I don't think its unreasonable to say that they are forced to make the decision between being completely destroyed and hiding among civilians. While this is immoral, it seems substantially different when it is, effectively, their only option that is not complete military stupidity or pacificism, so I think these attempts to shift all the blame to Hamas, properly understood, are just attempts to blame Hamas for not being pacifists. If we want to avoid this, the only real solution seems to be a ceasefire, not making quite extraordinary demands of Hamas - and don't take that out of context. I'm only trying to show in this discussion that if we want war, then we have to expect that Hamas will use their only advantage, which is hiding among civilians.

Ceasefires have been agreed, but what goes wrong? It appears Israeli aggression.

"We defined "conflict pauses" as periods of one or more days when no one is killed on either side, and we asked which side kills first after conflict pauses of different durations. As shown in Figure 2, this analysis shows that it is overwhelmingly Israel that kills first after a pause in the conflict: 79% of all conflict pauses were interrupted when Israel killed a Palestinian, while only 8% were interrupted by Palestinian attacks (the remaining 13% were interrupted by both sides on the same day). In addition, we found that this pattern -- in which Israel is more likely than Palestine to kill first after a conflict pause -- becomes more pronounced for longer conflict pauses. Indeed, of the 25 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than a week, Israel unilaterally interrupted 24, or 96%, and it unilaterally interrupted 100% of the 14 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than 9 days"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

If this is true, then it does seem that you demand truly incredible moral standards from Hamas. If it is true that Hamas are capable of adhering to ceasefires and Israel is not, then the issue of who bears more responsibility becomes even clearer.

I'll also reiterate that what I think Hamas should do is refuse to engage in violence and push for peaceful resolutions. What I expect of Israel is exactly the same.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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11/12/2014 9:30:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

This is one of those times where, more or less, I just have to guess what potential influences led you to come to that conclusion. I could tell you that you're wrong, explain to you why and then (if I was especially concerned with your edification) point you to the irony in your arriving at that conclusion.

The irony is of course that Hamas *would* if given the liberty effectuate a genocide against every Jew in the world, and Israel would never do that -even though they have the means. The reason is because of the fundamental differences between Judaism and Islam; the former as it is practiced in the world is peaceful, the latter is not only not peaceful, but a considerable percentage of practitioners of Islam derive from their "scripture" a divine command to kill people who are not Muslims, as well as Muslims who aren't "muslim" enough.
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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11/12/2014 9:54:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 4:01:35 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 11/12/2014 9:52:57 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Genocide? Why go outside of their own borders then? Aren't there enough Brown colored Isreali citizens they can easily kill?

For a smart fellow this was certainly a rather stupid comeback.

Really? Cause there are a lot of Muslim Israelis. If they wanted to gas chamber the Muslims, wouldn't it be way easier to start within their own borders like the Nazis did?
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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11/13/2014 3:37:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 9:30:05 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

This is one of those times where, more or less, I just have to guess what potential influences led you to come to that conclusion. I could tell you that you're wrong, explain to you why and then (if I was especially concerned with your edification) point you to the irony in your arriving at that conclusion.

The irony is of course that Hamas *would* if given the liberty effectuate a genocide against every Jew in the world, and Israel would never do that -even though they have the means. The reason is because of the fundamental differences between Judaism and Islam; the former as it is practiced in the world is peaceful, the latter is not only not peaceful, but a considerable percentage of practitioners of Islam derive from their "scripture" a divine command to kill people who are not Muslims, as well as Muslims who aren't "muslim" enough.

According to you, doesn't Israel occupy territories of Palestine? And is it right?
frbnsn
Posts: 353
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11/13/2014 4:02:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 3:24:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

Prove that just because Palestinians were living on the land means that the land is theirs. Squatters have no legitimate claim to a property, so prove that the Palestinians have a right to the land that is "seized" by the Israeli Government.

In 1948, who were the residents there, Palestinians or Jews? Who settled after?
If you look at a map of that region, you see how gradually occupied by Israel.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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11/13/2014 7:27:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 4:02:38 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 11/12/2014 3:24:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/12/2014 5:06:20 AM, frbnsn wrote:
I think, the aim of Israel annihilate Palestinians and establish Great Israel Kingdom.
Because they make genocide like been made during World War II and kill without separating child or woman or old.
And United Nations doen't intervene, just watches like a spectator theatre!

Prove that just because Palestinians were living on the land means that the land is theirs. Squatters have no legitimate claim to a property, so prove that the Palestinians have a right to the land that is "seized" by the Israeli Government.

In 1948, who were the residents there, Palestinians or Jews? Who settled after?
If you look at a map of that region, you see how gradually occupied by Israel.

I have an Ideal solution. Palestine will create a land for the Israelis to live in and forcibly move them there. Wait.... hasn't that already been done multiple times?
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/13/2014 7:43:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/12/2014 5:05:57 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 11/12/2014 2:43:14 PM, Emilrose wrote:
Israel absolutely offered Palestine it's OWN state. However, as the PLO initially refused this opportunity and walked out of the negotiations, the plan was cancelled. Later attempts to create a Palestine state were undermined by Palestinian refusal to recognise Israel as a state.

So I have been looking into it, and it seems that the primary barrier for peace, aside from the bloodshed, is 'Israel as a Jewish state' (emphasis on the 'Jewish' part) and the Palestinian 'right of return'. What's your opinion on that? I really don't know what the implications are.

The fact that Israel has a 20% Arab population already refutes that. In fact, some of the soldiers and police guards recently killed by Hamas were actually Arab themselves--another example of them murdering their own people.

It's not exactly a "big ask" for Israel to only require that its own state be recognised in order for there to be a Palestinian state. This is literally the ONLY requirement there is. Naturally if you continue launching terror attacks you are NOT increasing your chances of actually establishing your own state or helping your people in any way.

For example, what does firing over 4500 rockets/missiles actually achieve for the people of Gaza? Absolutely nothing. The excuse that it's the only way to "defend" or get at Israel is also ridiculous as it's the fact rockets are fired that Israel responds in the very first place. I'll reiterate on e again that Hamas has initiated every single conflict they've had with Israel.

However--this has consistently been refused. Continuously attacking Israel via rockets/kidnapps/weapon attacks, has also done nothing to enhance the prospect of a real Palestine state. After all, you can you agree to a state that executes such aggressive behaviour towards you?
The IDF does NOT purposely blow up civilians and especially children. Hamas (it's actually fairly obvious) exploit their civilian population and fire/store weaponry from civilian places. For example, numbers of IDF attacks were cancelled on the very basis of there being civilians within the populace--and there's recorded evidence to prove it.

Israel is not demanding any "reincarnation" of Ghandi's. The ONLY ask is that it be recognised and that terror attacks stop being launched on citizens.

Just look at recent events in Israel!

Indeed, Hamas appears perfectly willing to be shielded by its citizens - which isn't the same as 'using human shields' - I don't see that using disproportionate force which they are perfectly aware will cause huge civilian casualties is the only option Israel has available. If you want to make that argument, then you may as well accept that Hamas are being perfectly justified since they're using the only means they have to 'punish' Israel. Israel clearly has a very advanced military, and Hamas does not even have a real military. If Hamas did not integrate itself in the population, I'm sure it would be immediately annihilated. I don't think its unreasonable to say that they are forced to make the decision between being completely destroyed and hiding among civilians. While this is immoral, it seems substantially different when it is, effectively, their only option that is not complete military stupidity or pacificism, so I think these attempts to shift all the blame to Hamas, properly understood, are just attempts to blame Hamas for not being pacifists. If we want to avoid this, the only real solution seems to be a ceasefire, not making quite extraordinary demands of Hamas - and don't take that out of context. I'm only trying to show in this discussion that if we want war, then we have to expect that Hamas will use their only advantage, which is hiding among civilians.

So what exactly is the difference there? Hiding behind civilian population is not that unlike using civilian population--which Hamas consistently do. The evidence for such is perfectly clear to see by the numerous photographs of rockets launch sites outside schools, Mosques AND homes. The fact weaponry and rockets are even stored within these places, AND--Hamas telling its civilian population to stay within dangerous areas whenever the Israel distributes leaflets, sends phone calls and text messages.

One such example is when the IDF called a Gaza building prior to responding to fire being aimed from there. Speaking in Arabic, the solider specifically asked the receptionist if any civilians were left and the building and her response was: "NO", she asked again for further assurance and once more the fellow woman said there were no civilians.

It later turned out that she had in fact lied to IDF.

Ceasefires have been agreed, but what goes wrong? It appears Israeli aggression.

What goes wrong? Just look at Hamas! I can't see how really follow the events that accurately as the vast majority of your statements are incorrect.

Israel AGREES to every single ceasefire that gets proposed, it's Hamas that either rejects/breaks them. They've practically initiated this second wave of violence in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, along with the Palestinian authority.

Whereas Israel has done nothing against Gaza or even against the Palestinians in the West Bank. I suggest you look at the facts surrounding the summer conflict too as you'll see that every ceasefire was rejected or violated by Hamas. Like when they agreed but then infiltrated Israeli towns armed with weaponry--that is what "aggression" is.


"We defined "conflict pauses" as periods of one or more days when no one is killed on either side, and we asked which side kills first after conflict pauses of different durations. As shown in Figure 2, this analysis shows that it is overwhelmingly Israel that kills first after a pause in the conflict: 79% of all conflict pauses were interrupted when Israel killed a Palestinian, while only 8% were interrupted by Palestinian attacks (the remaining 13% were interrupted by both sides on the same day). In addition, we found that this pattern -- in which Israel is more likely than Palestine to kill first after a conflict pause -- becomes more pronounced for longer conflict pauses. Indeed, of the 25 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than a week, Israel unilaterally interrupted 24, or 96%, and it unilaterally interrupted 100% of the 14 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than 9 days"

These statistics may be biased as many Israeli's were interrupted by Palestinian attacks. Far more than 8%! I can assure you that in July/August, alarms were sounding off all over Israel. Not just in the south near Gaza but well into North too. As well as that, residents northern parts of Israel (in the Galilee/Golan area) are also disturbed by fighting going on in Syria and the Syrian drones that occasionally enter Israel.

As for Israel not having enough civilian casualties, well, sorry about that! When reading such things I get the impression that people actually want more Israeli casualties.

The reason why they are largely avoided is because Israel protects its people and does not use its population for war or propaganda purposes. Israel has an Iron Dome Defence system, which btw, is enormously expensive to operate. It also builds proper bomb shelters and gives adequate warnings to its people whenever rockets are coming or terror attacks are planned. That is WHY.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

If this is true, then it does seem that you demand truly incredible moral standards from Hamas. If it is true that Hamas are capable of adhering to ceasefires and Israel is not, then the issue of who bears more responsibility becomes even clearer.

I'll also reiterate that what I think Hamas should do is refuse to engage in violence and push for peaceful resolutions. What I expect of Is
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