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Why is the bathroom issue considered so impor

MasturDbtor
Posts: 45
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11/13/2014 9:19:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
...important to trans activists?

To start off with let's define a few terms:

I will use "male" and "female" to refer to physical sex and "man" and "woman" to refer to mental gender and always use "sex" to refer to the physical aspect and "gender" to refer to the mental aspect.

I get that transmen identify as men so if it says "men's room" and "women's room" and they're required to use the "women's room" that might be denying their identity. Same with transwomen and bathrooms.

But then why not just label the bathrooms "Physical Male" and "Physical Female". Then nobody's identity is being denied.

How is segregation based on gender more justified than segregation based on sex? If we explicitly make it clear we're talking about physical sex by using the word "physical" then we're not denying anyone's identity, we're just not basing segregation (for bathrooms or sports teams) on mental gender but on physical sex instead. It would still be equal.

Note: I'm not personally particular about what bathroom or sports team people use, it just appears to me that there's no reason why separating people based on sex would be less justifiable than gender for things like bathrooms and sports teams.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
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11/13/2014 10:39:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 9:19:12 PM, MasturDbtor wrote:
...important to trans activists?

To start off with let's define a few terms:

I will use "male" and "female" to refer to physical sex and "man" and "woman" to refer to mental gender and always use "sex" to refer to the physical aspect and "gender" to refer to the mental aspect.

I get that transmen identify as men so if it says "men's room" and "women's room" and they're required to use the "women's room" that might be denying their identity. Same with transwomen and bathrooms.

But then why not just label the bathrooms "Physical Male" and "Physical Female". Then nobody's identity is being denied.

How is segregation based on gender more justified than segregation based on sex? If we explicitly make it clear we're talking about physical sex by using the word "physical" then we're not denying anyone's identity, we're just not basing segregation (for bathrooms or sports teams) on mental gender but on physical sex instead. It would still be equal.

Note: I'm not personally particular about what bathroom or sports team people use, it just appears to me that there's no reason why separating people based on sex would be less justifiable than gender for things like bathrooms and sports teams.

I hate public bathrooms. It's not a matter of gender. It's a matter of hygiene. Public bathrooms are gross.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2014 11:56:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 10:39:45 PM, YYW wrote:
I hate public bathrooms. It's not a matter of gender. It's a matter of hygiene. Public bathrooms are gross.
They generally are. A few times, however, I was travelling through Germany, and stopped by some places that have this chain of public bathrooms called "Sanifair." It cost 50 euro cents at the time, but you get a coupon with which you can purchase something, such as a small cup of coffee. To the point - The bathrooms were very clean, and the toilet seat would rinse itself after use, which was delightful. The typical view I had of public bathrooms was quite positively changed afterwards.
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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11/14/2014 8:57:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 9:19:12 PM, MasturDbtor wrote:
...important to trans activists?

Why are they not allowed in the military?
Harper
Posts: 374
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11/16/2014 3:41:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
But then why not just label the bathrooms "Physical Male" and "Physical Female". Then nobody's identity is being denied.

Brilliant proposal, although the use of the term "physical" might set the trans community off as some people physically have a penis even though they were born female. Thus, I would only edit your proposal to "Genetic Male/Female" or "Biologically Male/Female", that way the distinction is entirely clear.

But there is one problem that just occurred to me: what if the individual had an abnormality with regards to their genetic sex? As in with individuals with Turner Syndrome or XXY Syndrome... I'm guessing they'd simply follow with what ever sex they were assigned to at birth or whatever's recorded in their birth certificate...
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,086
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11/16/2014 3:50:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 10:39:45 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/13/2014 9:19:12 PM, MasturDbtor wrote:
...important to trans activists?

To start off with let's define a few terms:

I will use "male" and "female" to refer to physical sex and "man" and "woman" to refer to mental gender and always use "sex" to refer to the physical aspect and "gender" to refer to the mental aspect.

I get that transmen identify as men so if it says "men's room" and "women's room" and they're required to use the "women's room" that might be denying their identity. Same with transwomen and bathrooms.

But then why not just label the bathrooms "Physical Male" and "Physical Female". Then nobody's identity is being denied.

How is segregation based on gender more justified than segregation based on sex? If we explicitly make it clear we're talking about physical sex by using the word "physical" then we're not denying anyone's identity, we're just not basing segregation (for bathrooms or sports teams) on mental gender but on physical sex instead. It would still be equal.

Note: I'm not personally particular about what bathroom or sports team people use, it just appears to me that there's no reason why separating people based on sex would be less justifiable than gender for things like bathrooms and sports teams.

I hate public bathrooms. It's not a matter of gender. It's a matter of hygiene. Public bathrooms are gross.

That I can agree with.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/16/2014 4:10:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/16/2014 3:41:13 PM, Harper wrote:
But then why not just label the bathrooms "Physical Male" and "Physical Female". Then nobody's identity is being denied.

Brilliant proposal
"Man" and "Woman" are sexes, while "Male" and "Female" are genders. It is unnecessary to alter the terms when they are clear.