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Regressive Tax

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:04:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Whether you're for a progressive tax or not has nothing to with this. It's debatable.
But how could anyone be for a regressive tax? Such as a sales tax or like in Delaware where they have a regressive income tax. That's just craziness.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/2/2010 5:08:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Regressive Tax isn't really regressive. At least that's what I learned in Econ. It just means marginal tax rate decreases.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:12:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to progressive taxes.

"A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases."
http://en.wikipedia.org...
The statement from that site, "a regressive tax imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich", implies an income tax. A sales tax is not regressive in reality because as the amount subject to taxation (consumption-dedicated income) increases, the percentage of it taxed does not change.

There have been several truly regressive taxes throughout history, lincluding one in France before the French Revolution. I believe most of them were due to the fact that the land-owners had a significant influence on the tax policy.

Feudalist systems are necessarily regressive.

Lump-sum taxes such as driver's licensing fees are also regressive in terms of percentage.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
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5/2/2010 5:13:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:08:16 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
Regressive Tax isn't really regressive. At least that's what I learned in Econ. It just means marginal tax rate decreases.

Can you expand on what that means?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:15:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:08:16 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
Regressive Tax isn't really regressive. At least that's what I learned in Econ. It just means marginal tax rate decreases.

I think your teacher was referring to this definition of regressive:
http://dictionary.reference.com...
-regressing or tending to regress; retrogressive.

Marginal tax rate decrease means that when you add a unit to be taxed, the percentage lowers.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/2/2010 5:16:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:13:01 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:08:16 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
Regressive Tax isn't really regressive. At least that's what I learned in Econ. It just means marginal tax rate decreases.

Can you expand on what that means?

Something like this. Let's say the base tax on something is 20%.
0-20,000: 20%
20k-35k: 40% (marginal is 20-10=20%)
35-50k: 48% (M: 8%)
50k-75k: 53% (M: 5%)
75k-100k: 57% (M: 4%)
100k+: 60% (M: 3%)

It's still more taxes for higher income people.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:15:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Haha, aside from the regressive tax for a moment, I just found this, it's pretty interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:23:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Never heard of it. But isn't Friedman a Libertarian? Why would he come up with that?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/2/2010 5:28:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:23:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Never heard of it. But isn't Friedman a Libertarian? Why would he come up with that?

He came up with as a way to transition to completely laissez faire.

1. Replace current income tax and all welfare programs with negative income tax.
2. Get rid of all income taxes.
3. Laissez faire.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/2/2010 5:28:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:23:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Never heard of it. But isn't Friedman a Libertarian? Why would he come up with that?

"Mention "free-market economics" to a member of the lay public and chances are that if he has heard the term at all, he identifies it completely with the name Milton Friedman. For several years, Professor Friedman has won continuing honors from the press and the profession alike, and a school of Friedmanites and "monetarists" has arisen in seeming challenge to the Keynesian orthodoxy.

However, instead of the common response of reverence and awe for "one of our own who has made it," libertarians should greet the whole affair with deep suspicion: "If he's so devoted a libertarian, how come he's a favorite of the Establishment?" An advisor of Richard Nixon and a friend and associate of most Administration economists, Friedman has, in fact, made his mark in current policy, and indeed reciprocates as a sort of leading unofficial apologist for Nixonite policy.

In fact, in this as in other such cases, suspicion is precisely the right response for the libertarian, for Professor Friedman's particular brand of "free-market economics" is hardly calculated to ruffle the feathers of the powers-that-be. Milton Friedman is the Establishment's Court Libertarian, and it is high time that libertarians awaken to this fact of life." - Murray Rothbard[1]

[1] http://www.lewrockwell.com...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/2/2010 5:29:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:28:36 PM, Nags wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:23:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Never heard of it. But isn't Friedman a Libertarian? Why would he come up with that?

He came up with it as a way to transition to completely laissez faire.

1. Replace current income tax and all welfare programs with negative income tax.
2. Get rid of all income taxes.
3. Laissez faire.

Fixed.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.

Out of all the political views I've had I've never been an Authoritarian.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/2/2010 5:32:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Out of all the political views I've had I've never been an Authoritarian.

But don't ya know, the dictatorship of the proletariat is the step before the state withers and dies away, and humanity reaches its final stage as a communist society!
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:34:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.

I don't know what the dictatorship of the proletariat means.

That's fine. It means a complete, limitless democratic rule.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:36:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:34:35 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.

I don't know what the dictatorship of the proletariat means.

That's fine. It means a complete, limitless democratic rule.

I know what it means and I won't be switching to it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:36:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:32:11 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Out of all the political views I've had I've never been an Authoritarian.

But don't ya know, the dictatorship of the proletariat is the step before the state withers and dies away, and humanity reaches its final stage as a communist society!

Indeed. FREEDO:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Search the page for "Historical periodisation"
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 5:37:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:36:12 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:34:35 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.

I don't know what the dictatorship of the proletariat means.

That's fine. It means a complete, limitless democratic rule.

I know what it means and I won't be switching to it.

How do you plan on transition to your lib-soc society? (assuming that's what you currently follow)
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:48:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:37:09 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:36:12 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:34:35 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:29:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:22:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:21:21 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:19:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:17:55 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Don't tell me you've never heard of that before.

He is ignorant of the ways of Friedman.

Maybe that's what he'll be next.

Nah, my bet is he'll be a Marxist-Leninist next. He'll be asking for the dictatorship of the proletariat in no time.

I don't know what the dictatorship of the proletariat means.

That's fine. It means a complete, limitless democratic rule.

I know what it means and I won't be switching to it.

How do you plan on transition to your lib-soc society? (assuming that's what you currently follow)

Transition to worker controlled business through voluntary action. Re-frame the government to be Constitutional Direct-Democracies and farther left but also make all government services and taxes for said services voluntary. Then abolish borders. I want Direct-Democracy balanced individualist rights, Socialism and Panarchy.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/2/2010 5:50:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:48:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Transition to worker controlled business through voluntary action. Re-frame the government to be Constitutional Direct-Democracies and farther left but also make all government services and taxes for said services voluntary. Then abolish borders. I want Direct-Democracy balanced individualist rights, Socialism and Panarchy.

Why wait to abolish borders?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 5:52:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:50:32 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/2/2010 5:48:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Transition to worker controlled business through voluntary action. Re-frame the government to be Constitutional Direct-Democracies and farther left but also make all government services and taxes for said services voluntary. Then abolish borders. I want Direct-Democracy balanced individualist rights, Socialism and Panarchy.

Why wait to abolish borders?

Things don't change with the flip of a switch.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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5/2/2010 5:53:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Freedo, if you abolish borders, democracy would have to be worldwide, right? How do you intend for one policy to fit the entire globe?
Reasoning
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5/2/2010 5:55:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:52:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Things don't change with the flip of a switch.

If someone said "comrade FREEDO, we are going to abolish borders now," would you object and say "not yet, comrade! We have not yet implemented Constitutional Direct-Democracy."?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/2/2010 6:01:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:59:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
I take it back - Reasoning has the same impatience and naivety as Lenin, more so than Freedo.

What?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/2/2010 6:01:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 5:53:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
Freedo, if you abolish borders, democracy would have to be worldwide, right? How do you intend for one policy to fit the entire globe?

No, it wouldn't be one government. In a Panarchy all the governments act like businesses without borders. You can change systems without moving. But it would be smart to pick one stationed near you.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord