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Michael Moore

Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/4/2010 6:18:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Michael Moore is the Alex Jones of the Left.

So no.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 6:22:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hell yeah Michael Moore is a great documentary-producer. He has awesome films that are entertaining and spot-on. People say he is too dramatic... WAKE UP PEOPLE, if your family lost its home because of an ARM loan, you would take advantage to tell your story on Moore's documentaries too! Without the real-life examples he provides, all those statistics remain abstract and unreal.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/4/2010 6:27:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 6:16:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Would you consider his movies reliable?

No.

If not, why?

Michael Moore is a socialist.
.: All socialists are unreliable.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 6:29:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Technically he is biased; of course he is. The real question is: which bias is right? If we had a debate about torturing children and I came into the argument with the position that it was wrong, technically I would be biased. Right-wing bias is usually achieved by rhetoric, while left-wing bias is achieved by unraveling facts.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 6:30:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 6:27:56 PM, Nags wrote:
At 5/4/2010 6:16:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Would you consider his movies reliable?

No.

If not, why?

Michael Moore is a socialist.
.: All socialists are unreliable.

Michael Moore is for democracy, not socialism. Regulating a market under Democracy is nothing like Red China or the USSR.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/4/2010 6:31:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 6:27:56 PM, Nags wrote:
At 5/4/2010 6:16:24 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Would you consider his movies reliable?

No.

If not, why?

Michael Moore is a socialist.
.: All socialists are unreliable.

Please. Could you actually give some reasoning for your view of his movies? Or else it will be simply dismissed.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/4/2010 6:34:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 6:31:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Please. Could you actually give some reasoning for your view of his movies? Or else it will be simply dismissed.

Fine, I don't care.

No one else has given any reasoning. He's a socialist. I'm not going to refute a particular socialist. Socialism has already been refuted many times on this forum.
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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5/4/2010 6:36:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I love Michael Moore. He's usually right, but that doesn't make him "reliable". He's not trying to be reliable. He's trying to make a political point. You could rip all his arguments apart with logic, but his statements appeal emotionally to our sense of morality in a way that works for me personally. None of this makes him "reliable".

What are you trying to get out of his work?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/4/2010 6:42:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 6:27:56 PM, Nags wrote:
Michael Moore is a socialist.
.: All socialists are unreliable.

almost as unreliable as everyone on the right... but not quite.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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5/4/2010 6:59:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Moore is good at what he does.

He cherry picks facts to fit whatever topic he is harping on.
Let him do what ever he wants.

Look at his movie, "Capitalism", He is the epitome of capitalism.
He promoted it and uses that money to make him fatter. It is all good.

Sicko was filled with cherry picked facts.
The people that love him are uneducated people on the subject matter.

If I told you I was God, would you believe me?
No

I suggest you do the same with Michael Moore.
Do not watch his movies with out logic and critical thinking, Leave that up to the nut jobs who watch his movie once and believe he is the greatest person ever, believing everything he says.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/4/2010 7:02:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Moore doesn't make real points. As comon said, he cherry picks facts that support his point. That combined with his excessive use of appeals to emotion make his movies heart wrenching and entertaining, but generally not a good place to go for accurate reporting.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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5/4/2010 7:05:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:02:31 PM, belle wrote:
Moore doesn't make real points. As comon said, he cherry picks facts that support his point. That combined with his excessive use of appeals to emotion make his movies heart wrenching and entertaining, but generally not a good place to go for accurate reporting.

Yeah, entertaining is the key word.

That it is.
So for that reason, he is good at documentaries and I watch most of them.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/4/2010 7:06:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I wouldn't consider Moore a reliable source simply on the basis of what his agenda is. He's willfully biased and while yes, he does use actual facts and real sources, like any biased media (*cough*Fox*cough*) it ends up being twisted and interpreted in a way that Moore wants you to see it, and not really how it actually is. His movies and documentaries are aimed to be infotainment - and with a specific agenda behind it.

If you want to use Moore as a source, like any media, write down what he cites, and then look it up yourself. There is more than enough sources on the net to track it down.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/4/2010 7:20:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:06:13 PM, Volkov wrote:
Volkov! You're supposed to be my enemy! :O
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/4/2010 7:24:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:20:27 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 5/4/2010 7:06:13 PM, Volkov wrote:
Volkov! You're supposed to be my enemy! :O

I'll try harder next time to be more disagreable.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/4/2010 7:24:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think he definitely plays too hard to emotion, so I can't trust him too much. Anytime I see someone trying to convince me with emotion I get very uncomfortable. But as for the validity of his facts, I don't know, which is why I made the thread. It would be nice to see some examples.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 7:41:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:24:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I think he definitely plays too hard to emotion, so I can't trust him too much. Anytime I see someone trying to convince me with emotion I get very uncomfortable. But as for the validity of his facts, I don't know, which is why I made the thread. It would be nice to see some examples.

Freedo, if your family lost its home because of an ARM loan, would you agree to do an emotional piece in one of Moore's documentaries? Or would you be too "above" that sort of thing?

Is it not important that Americans see the real effects of bad policy in the US? I can give you statistics all day long, but honestly how much do those truly connect with you?
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/4/2010 7:43:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:41:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 5/4/2010 7:24:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I think he definitely plays too hard to emotion, so I can't trust him too much. Anytime I see someone trying to convince me with emotion I get very uncomfortable. But as for the validity of his facts, I don't know, which is why I made the thread. It would be nice to see some examples.

Freedo, if your family lost its home because of an ARM loan, would you agree to do an emotional piece in one of Moore's documentaries? Or would you be too "above" that sort of thing?

Is it not important that Americans see the real effects of bad policy in the US? I can give you statistics all day long, but honestly how much do those truly connect with you?

so if something makes you feel really bad the person pointing it out to you is an accurate source of information? o.O
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/4/2010 7:44:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:41:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Is it not important that Americans see the real effects of bad policy in the US? I can give you statistics all day long, but honestly how much do those truly connect with you?

It is, but it doesn't have a place in any sort of reasoned debate over such policies. Moore uses his appeals to emotion for a specific purpose - it's entertainment. It moves people without really having to explain to them why.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/4/2010 7:54:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:41:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 5/4/2010 7:24:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I think he definitely plays too hard to emotion, so I can't trust him too much. Anytime I see someone trying to convince me with emotion I get very uncomfortable. But as for the validity of his facts, I don't know, which is why I made the thread. It would be nice to see some examples.

Freedo, if your family lost its home because of an ARM loan, would you agree to do an emotional piece in one of Moore's documentaries? Or would you be too "above" that sort of thing?

Is it not important that Americans see the real effects of bad policy in the US? I can give you statistics all day long, but honestly how much do those truly connect with you?

I don't really get sad or have that kind of reaction to things. I'm a little kooky in-case you haven't noticed. I plain don't like an appeal to emotions in intellectual matters. It doesn't work on me.

But his movies do seem to be full of facts. I'm just doing my part as an intellectually honest person in questioning their validity.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 7:55:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
We could make a lot of the same points he does... The entertainment factor is simply why he is in the limelight and we aren't - he's good at it, in an artistic way. Explaining how The Republicans needed someone to stand up to the women's movement in the late 70s, for instance, and then showing an old film of Ronald Reagan slapping a woman in the face for no reason is a pretty good move. Another one was showing a movie about Jesus while he was healing someone, and then dubbing over it with "I'm sorry, I cannot treat her pre-existing condition" to show the irony of the Christian right on health care. If Moore is stimulating your emotions, it probably means he is being effective.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/4/2010 7:56:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
its not just the facts but the context. for example:

http://www.dhmo.org...

all true!

do you want to ban DHMO?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 7:57:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
But his movies do seem to be full of facts. I'm just doing my part as an intellectually honest person in questioning their validity.

Don't... It's Michael Moore. I'll vouche for their authenticity. Moore cares about us and wants to be free. If he didn't then he would just use his skills to make porno flics starring himself in every one of them and doing his version of rick-rolling you on youtube whenever your in the middle of a movie.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/4/2010 7:59:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:57:58 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
But his movies do seem to be full of facts. I'm just doing my part as an intellectually honest person in questioning their validity.

Don't... It's Michael Moore. I'll vouche for their authenticity. Moore cares about us and wants to be free. If he didn't then he would just use his skills to make porno flics starring himself in every one of them and doing his version of rick-rolling you on youtube whenever your in the middle of a movie.

I'm extremely far-left.
And that was an incredibly dim-witted thing to say.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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5/4/2010 8:04:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/4/2010 7:59:54 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/4/2010 7:57:58 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
But his movies do seem to be full of facts. I'm just doing my part as an intellectually honest person in questioning their validity.

Don't... It's Michael Moore. I'll vouche for their authenticity. Moore cares about us and wants to be free. If he didn't then he would just use his skills to make porno flics starring himself in every one of them and doing his version of rick-rolling you on youtube whenever your in the middle of a movie.

I'm extremely far-left.
And that was an incredibly dim-witted thing to say.

Never assume that someone has honest intentions and would never seek to twist the truth. And even more so, never be sure that they won't be in denial of the truth.

A right-winger could just as easily say what you said about Glenn Beck.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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5/4/2010 8:08:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'll show you dim-witted if you want to see it. And My personal stamp of approval carries a lot of weight around here if you haven't noticed. When the rubber hits the road, all that matters is reputation.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.