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Guaranteed access to a job.

Reasoning
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5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
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5/17/2010 7:26:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:23:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I like the idea but how exactly would it work?

Communism
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
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5/17/2010 7:26:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.

He's not a libertarian.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/17/2010 7:26:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.

I meant right-libertarians, but fine. :P
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/17/2010 7:27:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You already have guaranteed access to a job - just not guaranteed success, or necessarily the job of your choosing :p
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FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:28:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:27:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
You already have guaranteed access to a job - just not guaranteed success, or necessarily the job of your choosing :p

So all unemployed people are there by choice?
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fnord
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:29:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:26:39 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.

He's not a libertarian.

I most certainly am.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Danielle
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5/17/2010 7:30:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:28:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:27:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
You already have guaranteed access to a job - just not guaranteed success, or necessarily the job of your choosing :p

So all unemployed people are there by choice?

Yep. They could be a writer, a musician, etc. lol I said not guaranteed success. One could also be a bum for a living (standing on the corner collecting change). Anyway this was mostly a response in jest; I know it's off topic from what you were asking/proposing. But I'm still right ;p
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Volkov
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5/17/2010 7:34:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What do you mean by "access" to a job? Like, employment is guaranteed, or that the opportunity to seek employment is guaranteed?
Vi_Veri
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5/17/2010 7:36:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:29:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:26:39 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.

He's not a libertarian.

I most certainly am.

lol Dude, I asked you last week and you said you weren't.... wtf?
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:36:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:34:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
What do you mean by "access" to a job? Like, employment is guaranteed, or that the opportunity to seek employment is guaranteed?

Guaranteed employment I suppose. But like I said, I don't know how it would work.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Reasoning
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5/17/2010 7:39:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:36:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Guaranteed employment I suppose. But like I said, I don't know how it would work.

Well. A group of people would create an organization that would find men willing to work, a job, maybe even if they need to create a job digging ditches to do so.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:42:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:36:15 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:29:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:26:39 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:25:12 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:24:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
inb4 libertarians. :P

A libertarian wrote the OP.

He's not a libertarian.

I most certainly am.

lol Dude, I asked you last week and you said you weren't.... wtf?

I don't remember that. It depends on what is meant by Libertarian. I do not associate with the Libertarian Party in anyway if that's what you mean.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
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5/17/2010 7:42:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:36:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Guaranteed employment I suppose. But like I said, I don't know how it would work.

It wouldn't, not without an economy which is almost entirely artificial. Employment is available when demand for that labour or those skill sets is needed; if you try to guarantee employment, you need to create continual artificial demand even if in reality the demand is low. You could also require that only certain professions are taught, but then that brings in too much state direction and then you get the ball rolling towards the USSR.

Now, if it were guaranteed opportunity, that's different. If you allowed all individuals with any skill set the possibility to be hired in jobs without discrimination, based on real market demands and at fair, supportable wages, you go a long way to creating your "guaranteed employment."

Also, if you want more employment, get better education. One of the biggest reasons so many people go unemployed is because they simply don't have up-to-date skills.
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:43:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:38:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What about disabled people who can't work? Will they get some other kind of support?

There's jobs they can have if they want one.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:45:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:42:52 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:36:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Guaranteed employment I suppose. But like I said, I don't know how it would work.

It wouldn't, not without an economy which is almost entirely artificial. Employment is available when demand for that labour or those skill sets is needed; if you try to guarantee employment, you need to create continual artificial demand even if in reality the demand is low. You could also require that only certain professions are taught, but then that brings in too much state direction and then you get the ball rolling towards the USSR.

Now, if it were guaranteed opportunity, that's different. If you allowed all individuals with any skill set the possibility to be hired in jobs without discrimination, based on real market demands and at fair, supportable wages, you go a long way to creating your "guaranteed employment."

Also, if you want more employment, get better education. One of the biggest reasons so many people go unemployed is because they simply don't have up-to-date skills.

*taking notes*
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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5/17/2010 7:45:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:43:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:38:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What about disabled people who can't work? Will they get some other kind of support?

There's jobs they can have if they want one.

Which kinds of jobs though? also, wouldn't payment be an issue? Wouldn't employers want to pay those people less as they would be less constructive due to their disabilities?
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:50:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:45:54 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:43:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:38:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What about disabled people who can't work? Will they get some other kind of support?

There's jobs they can have if they want one.

Which kinds of jobs though? also, wouldn't payment be an issue? Wouldn't employers want to pay those people less as they would be less constructive due to their disabilities?

There's plenty off jobs that someone who, say, can't walk, can do. There are many mental-task jobs and such.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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5/17/2010 7:52:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:50:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:45:54 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:43:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:38:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What about disabled people who can't work? Will they get some other kind of support?

There's jobs they can have if they want one.

Which kinds of jobs though? also, wouldn't payment be an issue? Wouldn't employers want to pay those people less as they would be less constructive due to their disabilities?

There's plenty off jobs that someone who, say, can't walk, can do. There are many mental-task jobs and such.

Ok, what about mentally disabled people? Sorry for all the "what-if" questions. Haha.
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:52:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
One idea I had is that small businesses could be given money to expand in a way as to hire more people.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:53:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:52:03 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:50:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:45:54 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:43:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:38:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What about disabled people who can't work? Will they get some other kind of support?

There's jobs they can have if they want one.

Which kinds of jobs though? also, wouldn't payment be an issue? Wouldn't employers want to pay those people less as they would be less constructive due to their disabilities?

There's plenty off jobs that someone who, say, can't walk, can do. There are many mental-task jobs and such.

Ok, what about mentally disabled people? Sorry for all the "what-if" questions. Haha.

Well obviously those people would remain under custody of someone as they do now.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
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5/17/2010 7:53:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:52:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
One idea I had is that small businesses could be given money to expand in a way as to hire more people.

That's called a grant or subsidy, and it already happens. Small businesses can apply for government grants in order to expand and build up their industry, with the obvious stipulation that they pay the money back.
FREEDO
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5/17/2010 7:56:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:53:51 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:52:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
One idea I had is that small businesses could be given money to expand in a way as to hire more people.

That's called a grant or subsidy, and it already happens. Small businesses can apply for government grants in order to expand and build up their industry, with the obvious stipulation that they pay the money back.

Well what if it was a large scale initiative that granted many small businesses this money specifically so they can hire more people and they don't have to pay it back.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
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5/17/2010 8:01:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:56:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Well what if it was a large scale initiative that granted many small businesses this money specifically so they can hire more people and they don't have to pay it back.

Because small businesses are "small" for a reason - they don't need to hire more people when they have enough to handle the business level they're already at. Hiring more people would just drain resources and create an artificial job. Small businesses natural expanding would be a cause for such a grant, since they need to hire more people to fill more roles.

But giving businesses money to hire labour they don't need, without any expectation of repayment, doesn't help solve the problem. The state's money would simply prop up artificial employment, draining many more resources than they could replace.
wjmelements
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5/17/2010 8:07:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 7:28:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/17/2010 7:27:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
You already have guaranteed access to a job - just not guaranteed success, or necessarily the job of your choosing :p

So all unemployed people are there by choice?

If there were no minimum wage, the answer would be a certain yes, but in most welfare states the large majority of the unemployed are unemployed by choice.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
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5/17/2010 8:08:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/17/2010 8:03:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Alright, here's a different idea. Hiring everyone who is unemployed for public services.

That presents two problems:

1. Bloated bureaucracy which literally has to pile layer upon layer of it in order to create enough jobs, which presents a host of problems, least of which is loss of efficiency.

2. Public sector jobs only extend to how far the public services will go. The same problem of artificial employment comes up, unless you want to create a very large bureaucracy.