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jews want make islam bad name

banker
Posts: 1,370
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5/18/2010 6:55:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Just like bush and america did 9/11 to make islam look bad all with help of israel and jews despite clear evidence that osama himself said he was not involved and it was just a sign of allah..! Here again jews try to get quoran and islam news to do hate and incite to jihad wIth no proof its from islam..!!
http://translating-jihad.blogspot.com...
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 7:09:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not only Jews, but other religious groups, too.

Some religions have been formed with the goal to destabilize Islam and its teachings. They were luckily never successful.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/18/2010 7:27:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 7:09:39 AM, Mirza wrote:
Not only Jews, but other religious groups, too.

Some religions have been formed with the goal to destabilize Islam and its teachings. They were luckily never successful.

Oh come on, which religion was formed with the purpose of destabilizing Islam?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 8:01:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 7:27:09 AM, innomen wrote:
Oh come on, which religion was formed with the purpose of destabilizing Islam?
Bah'ism, Babism. Other sects of Islam (many of which are hardly Islamic), too.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/18/2010 8:21:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:01:41 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 7:27:09 AM, innomen wrote:
Oh come on, which religion was formed with the purpose of destabilizing Islam?
Bah'ism, Babism. Other sects of Islam (many of which are hardly Islamic), too.

I wouldn't confuse a sect that breaks off out of protest or difference to a religion that has the sole purpose of destabilizing another religion. Protestantism had elements within it that were entirely ready to destabilize Catholicism, but to say that it's establishment was with the express purpose of destabilizing the Catholic church does a great disservice to Martin Luther and his intentions.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 8:31:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:21:02 AM, innomen wrote:
I wouldn't confuse a sect that breaks off out of protest or difference to a religion that has the sole purpose of destabilizing another religion. Protestantism had elements within it that were entirely ready to destabilize Catholicism, but to say that it's establishment was with the express purpose of destabilizing the Catholic church does a great disservice to Martin Luther and his intentions.
Russian spies encouraged Mirza Shiraazi to claim something which was against Islam.

As this belief of his developed, the whole idea of things totally contrary to Islam was established. Belief in crucifixion of Jesus (peace be upon him), belief that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was not the last Prophet, and so forth. This was a goal to distort the teachings of Islam, so people could forget the original ones, and not pay attention to them. These people cannot be considered Muslims.

Some sects were mainly formed due to a variety of different beliefs, but some that go beyond the teachings of Islam and clearly violate them, are not Islamic. They prohibit some basic laws of Islam, too. You can look up the history of the religion above.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/18/2010 8:32:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 7:09:39 AM, Mirza wrote:
Not only Jews, but other religious groups, too.

Some religions have been formed with the goal to destabilize Islam and its teachings. They were luckily never successful.

I don't think he was serious...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/18/2010 8:35:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:31:01 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 8:21:02 AM, innomen wrote:
I wouldn't confuse a sect that breaks off out of protest or difference to a religion that has the sole purpose of destabilizing another religion. Protestantism had elements within it that were entirely ready to destabilize Catholicism, but to say that it's establishment was with the express purpose of destabilizing the Catholic church does a great disservice to Martin Luther and his intentions.
Russian spies encouraged Mirza Shiraazi to claim something which was against Islam.

As this belief of his developed, the whole idea of things totally contrary to Islam was established. Belief in crucifixion of Jesus (peace be upon him), belief that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was not the last Prophet, and so forth. This was a goal to distort the teachings of Islam, so people could forget the original ones, and not pay attention to them. These people cannot be considered Muslims.

Some sects were mainly formed due to a variety of different beliefs, but some that go beyond the teachings of Islam and clearly violate them, are not Islamic. They prohibit some basic laws of Islam, too. You can look up the history of the religion above.

Why would this be done? An attempt to de-fang Islam?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 8:39:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:35:52 AM, innomen wrote:
Why would this be done? An attempt to de-fang Islam?
The Qur'an has 114 chapters. Not one has less or more.

Protestants and Catholics do not have the same Bibles. Why? Because the different attempts of distorting Christianity were quite successful. the so-called "sects" of Islam that go against its teachings and actually embarrass themselves in many ways are not Islamic. The histories of certain sects proves it all.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 8:39:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:39:10 AM, Mirza wrote:
... quite successful. *the so-called "sects" of Islam that go against its teachings and actually embarrass themselves in many ways are not Islamic. The histories of certain sects proves it all.
*The
banker
Posts: 1,370
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5/18/2010 8:46:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I believe that mrza,s assumsion is correct

Mirza assuming libs to belive that jews and christians where created to make islam look hatefull..!!

Actualy libs believe that they cuase misunderstandings that cuasing beheadings, suicides and mass hangings..!

All done to make islam look bad
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/18/2010 8:47:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:39:10 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 8:35:52 AM, innomen wrote:
Why would this be done? An attempt to de-fang Islam?
The Qur'an has 114 chapters. Not one has less or more.

Protestants and Catholics do not have the same Bibles. Why? Because the different attempts of distorting Christianity were quite successful. the so-called "sects" of Islam that go against its teachings and actually embarrass themselves in many ways are not Islamic. The histories of certain sects proves it all.

However, the protestant bible was not created with the purpose of destabilizing the Catholic church, but rather as an expression of its interpretation of Christ's message. Your saying that the sects (sorry if you don't like that term, provide another if you like) were created out of a conspiracy to destabilize Islam, and i am doubting that.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/18/2010 8:49:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:46:37 AM, banker wrote:
I believe that mrza,s assumsion is correct

Mirza assuming libs to belive that jews and christians where created to make islam look hatefull..!!

Actualy libs believe that they cuase misunderstandings that cuasing beheadings, suicides and mass hangings..!

All done to make islam look bad

Absurd. Both Judaism and Christianity predates Islam, significantly. Oh i don't even know where to go with such a statement.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 8:59:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:47:10 AM, innomen wrote:
However, the protestant bible was not created with the purpose of destabilizing the Catholic church, but rather as an expression of its interpretation of Christ's message. Your saying that the sects (sorry if you don't like that term, provide another if you like) were created out of a conspiracy to destabilize Islam, and i am doubting that.
No, but it is still not the same Bible. However, when a sect/belief is made directly to distort another, which I believe can be the case with some sects in some religions, then it is clear that the sects were formed only due to that. I am not saying that all sects of Islam were created to distort Islam. Some are just there due to a few different beliefs, not to distort anything. However, this particular one I am talking about is very clear on that just in its message, but the history tells everything. Debates took place with one of this particular religion, and he had not a word to say. Such was the case of those who uttered falsehood against Islam.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 9:01:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:49:26 AM, innomen wrote:
Absurd. Both Judaism and Christianity predates Islam, significantly. Oh i don't even know where to go with such a statement.
I did not say that. Banker is coming up with something random.

But neither Judaism nor Christianity predate Islam. Islam is the word that refers to "Submission to God", and both the ancient Jews and Christians were true Muslims. Those who go too much against the Bible today are hardly Christians, and we Muslims follow it more than Christians. The only reason one can give to say that Judaism and Christianity are older than Islam is the one which says that Torah and Injeel came before the Qur'an, and that is it. But the Qur'an did not establish Islam at all. It set things straight about it and confirmed the previous revelations.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/18/2010 10:56:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 9:01:28 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 8:49:26 AM, innomen wrote:
Absurd. Both Judaism and Christianity predates Islam, significantly. Oh i don't even know where to go with such a statement.
I did not say that. Banker is coming up with something random.

But neither Judaism nor Christianity predate Islam. Islam is the word that refers to "Submission to God", and both the ancient Jews and Christians were true Muslims. Those who go too much against the Bible today are hardly Christians, and we Muslims follow it more than Christians. The only reason one can give to say that Judaism and Christianity are older than Islam is the one which says that Torah and Injeel came before the Qur'an, and that is it. But the Qur'an did not establish Islam at all. It set things straight about it and confirmed the previous revelations.

Stop saying that! Some annoying fallacy of definition, that's not what we mean by Islam and you know it.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 11:05:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 10:56:21 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Stop saying that! Some annoying fallacy of definition, that's not what we mean by Islam and you know it.
I know what people mean.

1) Islam did not exist before the 6th century.
2) Ditto for Muslims.
3) Christianity and Judaism are older.

Who is bringing up a fallacy here? Do you think even Christianity and Judaism are today as they were before? What kind of logic is applied here? That is true, Islam after the Qur'an was revealed was not the same as before, because new rules are set for Muslims, such as the prayer time, etc. However, it does not mean that Islam did not exist. It does not mean that people did not call themselves Muslims.

Since Judaism and Christianity as we know them today are not at all as they were before, then the same logic I use about Islam applies to them. Neither religion was fully established before as it is today (except for Islam after the Qur'an was revealed), so the basic logical point is that Islam does predate those religions, since neither Christianity nor Judaism are today as they were before. So why say that Islam came after those two, when neither of those two are as they were before?
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/18/2010 11:20:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 11:05:10 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 10:56:21 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Stop saying that! Some annoying fallacy of definition, that's not what we mean by Islam and you know it.
I know what people mean.

1) Islam did not exist before the 6th century.
2) Ditto for Muslims.
3) Christianity and Judaism are older.

Who is bringing up a fallacy here? Do you think even Christianity and Judaism are today as they were before? What kind of logic is applied here? That is true, Islam after the Qur'an was revealed was not the same as before, because new rules are set for Muslims, such as the prayer time, etc. However, it does not mean that Islam did not exist. It does not mean that people did not call themselves Muslims.
That's not what the definition of Islam is, Islam is a Abrahamic religion that if defined by the additional teachings of Muhammad. All Abrahamic religions are one, however there are split distinctions that give them their name.

Judaism - Judah, son of Jacob.
Islam - "submission" Res-submission to God contrary to polytheist Christianity.
Christianity - Christ, the anointed implying the messiah.

You follow? To be Muslim, Jewish, Christian that is the basic rule you need to follow.

Since Judaism and Christianity as we know them today are not at all as they were before, then the same logic I use about Islam applies to them. Neither religion was fully established before as it is today (except for Islam after the Qur'an was revealed), so the basic logical point is that Islam does predate those religions, since neither Christianity nor Judaism are today as they were before. So why say that Islam came after those two, when neither of those two are as they were before?
Assuming it's true.

Definitions are base done Objective truths or likely hoods, Islam is treated as false. So Muhammad made it all up one way or the other.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/18/2010 11:25:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 8:46:37 AM, banker wrote:
I believe that mrza,s assumsion is correct

Mirza assuming libs to belive that jews and christians where created to make islam look hatefull..!!
Your Christian so wtf...
We predate Islam*, our modern traditions mostly predate Islam, the ones that don't aren't for or by Islam.

(*Don't even think about it Mirza).

Actualy libs believe that they cuase misunderstandings that cuasing beheadings, suicides and mass hangings..!
No because they rightfully take the Qur'an literally.

All done to make islam look bad
You must really like her, it's just a photo get over it.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
twsurber
Posts: 505
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5/18/2010 11:36:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Jews don't have to do anything to give Islam a bad name, Islam does a fine job of that without any help. Very rarely does any government attack an Islamic terror group except in retaliation.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 11:40:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 11:20:03 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
That's not what the definition of Islam is, Islam is a Abrahamic religion that if defined by the additional teachings of Muhammad. All Abrahamic religions are one, however there are split distinctions that give them their name.

Judaism - Judah, son of Jacob.
Islam - "submission" Res-submission to God contrary to polytheist Christianity.
Christianity - Christ, the anointed implying the messiah.

You follow? To be Muslim, Jewish, Christian that is the basic rule you need to follow.
Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, Mohamed (peace be upon them) are all I follow, and they were all Muslims. They were neither Jews nor Christians. Judaism and Christianity were formed after people went astray, and the history of Christianity after the death of Jesus (peace be upon him) proves this. People disagreed over Trinity etc., and finally they formed a Trinitarian belief. Before such things happened, the Biblical teachings were Islamic teachings. The Qur'an mentions same Prophets, similar laws, and so forth. And we Muslims pray in a similar way to how the Prophets did in the Bible. Do Christians do that? We do not believe that Jesus is God, neither does the Bible. Do Christians believe it? Yes. Then what new did Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) come with? The Qur'an was revealed, fine. A final system of Islam was established, fine. But what he did in the first place was to spread the true message of the Abrahamic religions, because it was distorted. Where does the Bible say anything about Christianity? Jesus (peace be upon him) was a Muslim. He knew that word.

Read: http://www.answering-christianity.com...

Assuming it's true.
Of course it is true. Even by looking at the Reformation, we know that this is true. Already there a significant part of the Bible was ignored by many Christians. Do you think they could agree before? No. That is why they were in doubt of "Trinity" and such.

Definitions are base done Objective truths or likely hoods, Islam is treated as false. So Muhammad made it all up one way or the other.
Islam has no objection to the original Torah, Zabur, and Injeel. It says that those were books from God. However, people disagreed and went the wrong ways, and once the Injeel (which was revealed to Jesus) became corrupt, especially when people started believing in Trinity, that is when Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came and cleared things up, and spread the message about true monotheism.

[Qur'an 5:69] "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

This speaks about the time when people still believed in the Torah and Injeel during the last era of Islam. People had to accept that they believed in the old scriptures. We Muslims also have to believe in their existence. They were labeled as Christians and Jews because that is how they were recognized before Islam came, but after the full revelation of the Qur'an, there was no doubt about a scripture, nor about God. No trinity, nor "Son of God" or "God died for our sins" etc. For these reasons, the last era of Islam was after the revelation of the Qur'an, but the first ones had predated this one, and the teachings the Qur'an holds about God, His Prophets etc. applied to all times.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 11:45:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 11:25:37 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
We predate Islam*, our modern traditions mostly predate Islam, the ones that don't aren't for or by Islam.

(*Don't even think about it Mirza).
The original Biblical teachings predate the current ones, so what kind of logic are you trying to use? Which Christian belief of yours do you think predates Islam? Trinity? No, Islam teaches about monotheism, and monotheism is encouraged in the Bible. Jesus being God? No, the Bible does not say that. The teaching you are talking about came quite a long time after such "Christian" teachings came. So tell me which modern Christian beliefs of yours predate Islam! Expect a response in the "Jesus' Divinity" thread about some modern Christian arguments. Islam, even as we all know it today, after the Qur'an was revealed, matches the Bible more than the Christian belief you are boasting about, practicing, and which other Christians practice. Then since Islam is more compatible with the Bible than the teachings of Christians, where is your logical proof?

No because they rightfully take the Qur'an literally.
We are fully satisfied with that.
twsurber
Posts: 505
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5/18/2010 11:51:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 11:45:13 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/18/2010 11:25:37 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
We predate Islam*, our modern traditions mostly predate Islam, the ones that don't aren't for or by Islam.

(*Don't even think about it Mirza).
The original Biblical teachings predate the current ones, so what kind of logic are you trying to use? Which Christian belief of yours do you think predates Islam? Trinity? No, Islam teaches about monotheism, and monotheism is encouraged in the Bible. Jesus being God? No, the Bible does not say that. The teaching you are talking about came quite a long time after such "Christian" teachings came. So tell me which modern Christian beliefs of yours predate Islam! Expect a response in the "Jesus' Divinity" thread about some modern Christian arguments. Islam, even as we all know it today, after the Qur'an was revealed, matches the Bible more than the Christian belief you are boasting about, practicing, and which other Christians practice. Then since Islam is more compatible with the Bible than the teachings of Christians, where is your logical proof?

No because they rightfully take the Qur'an literally.
We are fully satisfied with that.

What Bible are you guys reading? The Trinity is clearly Biblical, and to deny the deity of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. Jesus clearly stated that He was the Messiah and God throughout the Gospel and confirmed by His apostles.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 11:53:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 11:51:40 AM, twsurber wrote:
What Bible are you guys reading? The Trinity is clearly Biblical, and to deny the deity of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. Jesus clearly stated that He was the Messiah and God throughout the Gospel and confirmed by His apostles.
Like in John 10:30?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/18/2010 12:08:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Will you people LRN2HISTORY!?

Most Christian beliefs, or at least their basis, came to a head during the period between Jesus' death and the First Council of Nicaea, both dates which predate Islam by centuries. The Trinity makes an appearance in the third century. A simple Wikipedia search would reveal this.

Why does it take an atheist to tell people this?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/18/2010 12:14:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/18/2010 12:08:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
Will you people LRN2HISTORY!?

Most Christian beliefs, or at least their basis, came to a head during the period between Jesus' death and the First Council of Nicaea, both dates which predate Islam by centuries. The Trinity makes an appearance in the third century. A simple Wikipedia search would reveal this.

Why does it take an atheist to tell people this?
Thanks for sharing it with us, but I already mentioned most of it.

what predates the Qur'an is the Bible. What Islam teaches, however, predates what Christians teach. Even the Bible we have today is much more compatible with Islamic teachings/the entire Qur'an than what Christians teach. Since the Bible itself is older than Trinity, and so forth, which is what Christians today call Christianity, but it does not speak of those, rather of what Islam speaks about, then Islamic teachings are clearly predating Christian teaching. We shared the same monotheistic messages before the Qur'an was revealed. Read what I wrote, it explains it.

Even the word Christianity is not mentioned in the Bible. Just because the Bible predates the Qur'an does not mean that Christianity predates Islam. Islam was actually once based on the Bible (Torah and Injeel), so why take that credit away from Islam? The Bible even goes as far as predicting Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)! I can give a talk on this.

Have you heard of Dr. Zakir Naik?