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All Lives Matter

Conservative101
Posts: 191
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12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/8/2014 9:40:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.

You do realize the issue isn't race per se, but due to cops shooting blacks, with seemingly no justice, as there is rarely a trial it seems.
The race baiters and politicians spin this to be a worse problem than it is, but for people who are told they are always a victim, and they see this, it is not surprising when they say black lives matter.
My work here is, finally, done.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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12/9/2014 11:03:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2014 9:40:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.

You do realize the issue isn't race per se, but due to cops shooting blacks, with seemingly no justice, as there is rarely a trial it seems.
The race baiters and politicians spin this to be a worse problem than it is, but for people who are told they are always a victim, and they see this, it is not surprising when they say black lives matter.

Even then, the number of people shot by cops per year is REALLY low. I want to say it's less than 300. So I don't think it's a epidemic.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/9/2014 11:09:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 11:03:16 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 12/8/2014 9:40:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.

You do realize the issue isn't race per se, but due to cops shooting blacks, with seemingly no justice, as there is rarely a trial it seems.
The race baiters and politicians spin this to be a worse problem than it is, but for people who are told they are always a victim, and they see this, it is not surprising when they say black lives matter.

Even then, the number of people shot by cops per year is REALLY low. I want to say it's less than 300. So I don't think it's a epidemic.

Well, you're quite wrong about that.
I want to say 11,000, but that seems too high.
I know of a stat that says 15-19 year olds were 406/year over a three year stretch.

Epidemic or not, there are at least four cases where the cop "killed" either an unarmed man, or a fleeing man in one case (six shots in the back), and none of them are going to trial.
All white cops, 3 black men, and one white down-syndrome.
Two died due to other factors, two were shot.

For anyone who feels racism is still alive and well, and it is institutional, you can't blame them for thinking this is more of the same, and being frustrated and feeling like no one cares about them.

I disagree with them, but I can see their thought process.
My work here is, finally, done.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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12/9/2014 5:27:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 11:09:33 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/9/2014 11:03:16 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 12/8/2014 9:40:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.

You do realize the issue isn't race per se, but due to cops shooting blacks, with seemingly no justice, as there is rarely a trial it seems.
The race baiters and politicians spin this to be a worse problem than it is, but for people who are told they are always a victim, and they see this, it is not surprising when they say black lives matter.

Even then, the number of people shot by cops per year is REALLY low. I want to say it's less than 300. So I don't think it's a epidemic.

Well, you're quite wrong about that.
I want to say 11,000, but that seems too high.
I know of a stat that says 15-19 year olds were 406/year over a three year stretch.

Epidemic or not, there are at least four cases where the cop "killed" either an unarmed man, or a fleeing man in one case (six shots in the back), and none of them are going to trial.
All white cops, 3 black men, and one white down-syndrome.
Two died due to other factors, two were shot.

For anyone who feels racism is still alive and well, and it is institutional, you can't blame them for thinking this is more of the same, and being frustrated and feeling like no one cares about them.

I disagree with them, but I can see their thought process.

I'll be honest with you... In a nation of 300,000,000+ people, that's not a lot. And the cops being white isn't very convincing since the vast majority of cops are white, so proportionately, that means 3 out of 4 cops who kill will be white, so 4 out of the 4 you listed isn't far off. And almost 50% of all crime is caused by a black person, so 3 out of 4 is also not far off.

As for the down-syndrome man, did the cop know he had down-syndrome? Even if he had, was he in danger? If he was in immediate danger, than it doesn't really matter who is endangering him.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/9/2014 9:08:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 5:27:23 PM, donald.keller wrote:

Epidemic or not, there are at least four cases where the cop "killed" either an unarmed man, or a fleeing man in one case (six shots in the back), and none of them are going to trial.
All white cops, 3 black men, and one white down-syndrome.
Two died due to other factors, two were shot.

For anyone who feels racism is still alive and well, and it is institutional, you can't blame them for thinking this is more of the same, and being frustrated and feeling like no one cares about them.

I disagree with them, but I can see their thought process.

I'll be honest with you... In a nation of 300,000,000+ people, that's not a lot. And the cops being white isn't very convincing since the vast majority of cops are white, so proportionately, that means 3 out of 4 cops who kill will be white, so 4 out of the 4 you listed isn't far off. And almost 50% of all crime is caused by a black person, so 3 out of 4 is also not far off.
Statistically, no it's not.
I've also seen stats that suggest only 3 cops of every thousand are convicted of misconduct, while 10 of every thousand are accused (1%).

The point here, though, is from the narrow POV of these people, that is enough.
And, frankly, I have a problem with the police being too.....well, stupid and/or aggressive. They do not protect and serve anymore, and that is a problem.

As for the down-syndrome man, did the cop know he had down-syndrome? Even if he had, was he in danger? If he was in immediate danger, than it doesn't really matter who is endangering him.

From the pictures, it was pretty obvious.
The issue was he didn't want to leave the theater, resisted arrest (maybe a temper tantrum or something, I doubt it was very dangerous), and they ended up handcuffing him (needed to link three to cuff him), and laid him on his stomach.
I'm assuming in doing that, the man suffocated or ruptured a lung or something due to his weight.
Sad, really.

But, guess what, parents of down syndrome kids are concerned, now.
It's human nature.
Think of all the parent who are afraid of kidnappers, when it is so incredibly rare.
My work here is, finally, done.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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12/9/2014 9:48:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 9:08:17 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/9/2014 5:27:23 PM, donald.keller wrote:
Epidemic or not, there are at least four cases where the cop "killed" either an unarmed man, or a fleeing man in one case (six shots in the back), and none of them are going to trial.
All white cops, 3 black men, and one white down-syndrome.
Two died due to other factors, two were shot.

For anyone who feels racism is still alive and well, and it is institutional, you can't blame them for thinking this is more of the same, and being frustrated and feeling like no one cares about them.

I disagree with them, but I can see their thought process.

I'll be honest with you... In a nation of 300,000,000+ people, that's not a lot. And the cops being white isn't very convincing since the vast majority of cops are white, so proportionately, that means 3 out of 4 cops who kill will be white, so 4 out of the 4 you listed isn't far off. And almost 50% of all crime is caused by a black person, so 3 out of 4 is also not far off.

Statistically, no it's not.

It's around 1 death per 3800 violent crimes. That obviously leaves out non-violent crimes. That is statistically low for a nation like the US. While not low compared to the UK or France, you can't really compare the US and Europe. What would you consider low? At only 320 deaths a year, the 1,100,000 officers in the US are doing pretty good at not killing.

I've also seen stats that suggest only 3 cops of every thousand are convicted of misconduct, while 10 of every thousand are accused (1%).

The position of cop will always be followed with a high rate of accusation. We love to accuse the person who catches us in the act of doing something wrong. Accusations against a cop (like with anyone) should be questioned first, and not taken at face value. Most people caught by a cop will have some reason to say the cop was the one in the wrong. It's not about the number. It's about the actual cases. It may just be that only a third of all accusations are credible.

The point here, though, is from the narrow POV of these people, that is enough.

I can't imagine their POV changes the truth.

And, frankly, I have a problem with the police being too.....well, stupid and/or aggressive. They do not protect and serve anymore, and that is a problem.

Because of a few bad examples? That seems a bit generalizing. Police still aim to protect people. You know how many people they kill.. Now ask how many of the deaths were justified, how many happened in an attempt to protect someone, and than ask yourself... How many people do the police save each year? I'll give you a damn good idea in the last section below.

As for the down-syndrome man, did the cop know he had down-syndrome? Even if he had, was he in danger? If he was in immediate danger, than it doesn't really matter who is endangering him.

From the pictures, it was pretty obvious.
The issue was he didn't want to leave the theater, resisted arrest (maybe a temper tantrum or something, I doubt it was very dangerous), and they ended up handcuffing him (needed to link three to cuff him), and laid him on his stomach.
I'm assuming in doing that, the man suffocated or ruptured a lung or something due to his weight.
Sad, really.

Indeed. If the cop wasn't justified, its because he knew he wasn't in danger, not because the man had down-syndrome though. Had the guy not had down-syndrome, it would still not have been okay. Justification is about how much of a threat that person is, not who that person was, unless he was a kid (which a full grown down-syndrome adult isn't.)

But, guess what, parents of down syndrome kids are concerned, now.
It's human nature.
Think of all the parent who are afraid of kidnappers, when it is so incredibly rare.

Indeed, it's incredibly rare. However still a valid fear. There are more kidnappings each year than is the number of kids killed by police. And more kidnapped children saved by police than is the number of people killed by police period (776,000 children, if I have my math right. So that number alone should tell you something.)
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Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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12/9/2014 10:04:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 11:09:33 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/9/2014 11:03:16 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 12/8/2014 9:40:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/8/2014 8:00:53 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
I don't understand this whole "Black lives matter" thing. Of course black lives matter, but so does everyone else's. What makes black lives more significant than non-black lives?

Black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. However, there is no one protesting "White lives matter" in the streets. "Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse." http://humanevents.com...

It is easy to infer from this that white on black crime is definitely makes up the minority of crimes, yet we have thousands up in arms. What is with the sensitivity on race? Do non-black lives just not matter anymore? I thought we were done with prejudice. Apparently not.

You do realize the issue isn't race per se, but due to cops shooting blacks, with seemingly no justice, as there is rarely a trial it seems.
The race baiters and politicians spin this to be a worse problem than it is, but for people who are told they are always a victim, and they see this, it is not surprising when they say black lives matter.

Even then, the number of people shot by cops per year is REALLY low. I want to say it's less than 300. So I don't think it's a epidemic.

Well, you're quite wrong about that.
I want to say 11,000, but that seems too high.
I know of a stat that says 15-19 year olds were 406/year over a three year stretch.

Epidemic or not, there are at least four cases where the cop "killed" either an unarmed man, or a fleeing man in one case (six shots in the back), and none of them are going to trial.
All white cops, 3 black men, and one white down-syndrome.
Two died due to other factors, two were shot.

For anyone who feels racism is still alive and well, and it is institutional, you can't blame them for thinking this is more of the same, and being frustrated and feeling like no one cares about them.

I disagree with them, but I can see their thought process.

My bad. I thought we were talking about people KILLED via police shooting.

http://www.usatoday.com...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/10/2014 2:27:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*facepalm*

I bet you would've been one of those complaining about the "I am a Man" slogan during the civil rights movement indignantly protesting "So are you saying others aren't men or are they less of a man than you?!"

"We know that all lives matter. WE KNOW. But we have to say #BlackLivesMatter to remind people of our humanity, which is far too often forgotten. So for white people (or anyone who isn"t Black) to feel like this proclamation somehow diminishes THEIR humanity is to confirm that very self-centeredness that we"re fighting against."

As Arthur chu said, "Do people who change #blacklivesmatter to #allivesmatter run thru a cancer fundrasier going "THERE ARE OTHER DISEASES TOO'"

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com...
http://www.alligator.org...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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2/1/2015 6:32:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 2:27:22 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
*facepalm*

I bet you would've been one of those complaining about the "I am a Man" slogan during the civil rights movement indignantly protesting "So are you saying others aren't men or are they less of a man than you?!"

"We know that all lives matter. WE KNOW. But we have to say #BlackLivesMatter to remind people of our humanity, which is far too often forgotten. So for white people (or anyone who isn"t Black) to feel like this proclamation somehow diminishes THEIR humanity is to confirm that very self-centeredness that we"re fighting against."

Black on white crime is way higher than white on black crime. Most blacks are killed by other blacks. So where is this epidemic of white cops killing blacks? If there's an epidemic, how come we only hear stories like this about once every few years?

As Arthur chu said, "Do people who change #blacklivesmatter to #allivesmatter run thru a cancer fundrasier going "THERE ARE OTHER DISEASES TOO'"

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com...
http://www.alligator.org...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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2/2/2015 11:28:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 6:32:22 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 12/10/2014 2:27:22 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
*facepalm*

I bet you would've been one of those complaining about the "I am a Man" slogan during the civil rights movement indignantly protesting "So are you saying others aren't men or are they less of a man than you?!"

"We know that all lives matter. WE KNOW. But we have to say #BlackLivesMatter to remind people of our humanity, which is far too often forgotten. So for white people (or anyone who isn"t Black) to feel like this proclamation somehow diminishes THEIR humanity is to confirm that very self-centeredness that we"re fighting against."

Black on white crime is way higher than white on black crime. Most blacks are killed by other blacks.

Yeah, no duh. Most racial members of a racial group are killed by members in their own racial groups. And blacks, when they kill other blacks, are also punished more harshly than whits. The problem comes in when police who kill blacks AREN'T FAIRLY PUNISHED. This a very simple point.

So where is this epidemic of white cops killing blacks? If there's an epidemic, how come we only hear stories like this about once every few years?


Who is "we"? I hear about this all the time. You are aware that there are more cases then are blown up by the national media? Do you even look for information?

As Arthur chu said, "Do people who change #blacklivesmatter to #allivesmatter run thru a cancer fundrasier going "THERE ARE OTHER DISEASES TOO'"

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com...
http://www.alligator.org...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/2/2015 11:53:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:28:10 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/1/2015 6:32:22 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 12/10/2014 2:27:22 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
*facepalm*

I bet you would've been one of those complaining about the "I am a Man" slogan during the civil rights movement indignantly protesting "So are you saying others aren't men or are they less of a man than you?!"

"We know that all lives matter. WE KNOW. But we have to say #BlackLivesMatter to remind people of our humanity, which is far too often forgotten. So for white people (or anyone who isn"t Black) to feel like this proclamation somehow diminishes THEIR humanity is to confirm that very self-centeredness that we"re fighting against."

Black on white crime is way higher than white on black crime. Most blacks are killed by other blacks.

Yeah, no duh. Most racial members of a racial group are killed by members in their own racial groups. And blacks, when they kill other blacks, are also punished more harshly than whits.
Is this true? Being convicted of murder doesn't really leave much room for "more harsh" punishments. Other crimes do.
The problem comes in when police who kill blacks AREN'T FAIRLY PUNISHED. This a very simple point.
As I've said before, I don't see that as the primary issue here. Police just are excused, in general. Thus, I don't see this as a racial issue.
There was a cop that has had two trials, and two mistrials (hung juries). And, yes, this was a white cop and a black CHILD (7 yr old, sleeping in her bed, though, I doubt she was sleeping, during a raid).
Also, do you mean punished, or held accountable? A trial holds people accountable and is not necessarily a punishment.

So where is this epidemic of white cops killing blacks? If there's an epidemic, how come we only hear stories like this about once every few years?


Who is "we"? I hear about this all the time. You are aware that there are more cases then are blown up by the national media? Do you even look for information?

Precisely why I have this thread.
http://www.debate.org...
Please, document these cases there.

By the way, how do you hear about this all the time? What news source do you use?
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/2/2015 11:55:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 6:32:22 PM, Varrack wrote:

Black on white crime is way higher than white on black crime. Most blacks are killed by other blacks. So where is this epidemic of white cops killing blacks? If there's an epidemic, how come we only hear stories like this about once every few years?

Actually, it's usually a few every year.
Huffington post had an article that referenced deaths, and it had 10 in 2014.
I'm sure there may be more, that were local and not national headlines, but, then again, maybe those were justified. It's hard to say.