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Cuban Healthcare- A conversation

SebUK
Posts: 850
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12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/10/2014 3:49:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Are you Cuban and/or have first hand knowledge of its system?
Why do you imply America does is not high quality?
My work here is, finally, done.
SebUK
Posts: 850
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12/10/2014 5:08:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:49:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Are you Cuban and/or have first hand knowledge of its system?
Why do you imply America does is not high quality?

I never referred to the US , 'The Cuban health system is recognized worldwide for its excellence and its efficiency. Despite extremely limited resources and the dramatic impact caused by the economic sanctions imposed by the United States for more than half a century, Cuba has managed to guarantee access to care for all segments of the population and obtain results similar to those of the most developed nations.

During her recent visit to Havana in July of 2014, Margaret Chan, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), impressed by the country's achievements in this field, praised the Cuban health care system: "Cuba is the only country that has a health care system closely linked to research and development. This is the way to go, because human health can only improve through innovation," She also praised "the efforts of the country's leadership for having made health an essential pillar of development" [1]. ' - (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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12/10/2014 5:54:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

This is probably related to the medical university being free of cost, therefore no brilliant brains stay out of the career for economic reasons, as it happens in the rest of the world.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/11/2014 8:27:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 5:08:57 PM, SebUK wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:49:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Are you Cuban and/or have first hand knowledge of its system?
Why do you imply America does is not high quality?

I never referred to the US , 'The Cuban health system is recognized worldwide for its excellence and its efficiency. Despite extremely limited resources and the dramatic impact caused by the economic sanctions imposed by the United States for more than half a century, Cuba has managed to guarantee access to care for all segments of the population and obtain results similar to those of the most developed nations.

First, everyone, even non-citizens have access to healthcare, even before the ACA.
Second, Cuba is being praised for its focus on preventive care. There is nothing stopping people from getting preventive care in capitalist countries. In fact, one could argue the third party system increases these costs. I know that going to a doctor costs between $80-$130. Or, I can pay that much per month in insurance so I can pay $40 each visit. If insurance was insurance, and healthcare was healthcare, things would be different. Regulation is also an issue, for example, being forced to charge the same amount to everyone, regardless that cash payers cost less to treat those with insurance, which cost less then those on Medicare.
I've heard of stories of doctors who were shut down because they refused any and all insurance, and charged a flat fee of $80 for all tests and visits (GP). I've also heard stories of pharmacies being sued for offering really cheap generics, due to some law from the 1900s (anti-trust or retail price minimums)
Third, for whatever successes there are in Cuba, it is important to note that foreign dignitaries come to America and other more capitalist nations for health treatment. Why is that?

During her recent visit to Havana in July of 2014, Margaret Chan, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), impressed by the country's achievements in this field, praised the Cuban health care system: "Cuba is the only country that has a health care system closely linked to research and development. This is the way to go, because human health can only improve through innovation," She also praised "the efforts of the country's leadership for having made health an essential pillar of development" [1]. ' - (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)
My work here is, finally, done.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/11/2014 12:04:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 5:08:57 PM, SebUK wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:49:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Are you Cuban and/or have first hand knowledge of its system?
Why do you imply America does is not high quality?

I never referred to the US , 'The Cuban health system is recognized worldwide for its excellence and its efficiency. Despite extremely limited resources and the dramatic impact caused by the economic sanctions imposed by the United States for more than half a century, Cuba has managed to guarantee access to care for all segments of the population and obtain results similar to those of the most developed nations.

During her recent visit to Havana in July of 2014, Margaret Chan, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), impressed by the country's achievements in this field, praised the Cuban health care system: "Cuba is the only country that has a health care system closely linked to research and development. This is the way to go, because human health can only improve through innovation," She also praised "the efforts of the country's leadership for having made health an essential pillar of development" [1]. ' - (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)

I think the Cuban healthcare system being treated as a paragon of virtue a myth. Part of their issue is, however, that they are barred trade from the US. Lack of consumer goods, lack of all medicines in many cases, poor facilities, blackouts, are all common in Cuban hospitals. They may be able to diagnose bronchitis, but they cannot treat it as they have no antibiotics. There is also a shortage of doctors as Castro has sent many of them to Venezuela in order to obtain discounter oil. Indeed, part of the problem is due to the fact government interests trump actual care!
See, eg, http://www.nationalcenter.org...

So part of their healthcare failure is due to poverty and the trade ban to Cuba from the US. However, I would suspect even if that is lifted (also note: arguably the poverty is due to the 'communist' government, meaning the problem still occurs in the government), I still suspect the healthcare would fail on its own merits. It would be 'free', but rationing, the shortage of doctors, and other issues which come from managed care (rationing, for example) would remain.

A good comparison between Canada and the US has been done by NBER, and generally finds that American health outcomes are superior to that of Canada's.
http://www.nber.org...

The reason Canada is a good example is because it is culturally similar to the US. Overall, I don't think single payer healthcare would fix the healthcare issue. However, free market reforms probably would.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/11/2014 3:29:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Cuban healthcare is so good because everyone is kept in pristine health. How? You're scheduled regular health appointments (doctor, dentist, pharma etc) and if you do not go you're escorted there at gunpoint. Literally.

My girlfriend's brother-in-law grew up in Cuba and it is not a nice place at all.
SebUK
Posts: 850
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12/11/2014 4:14:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2014 3:29:35 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Cuban healthcare is so good because everyone is kept in pristine health. How? You're scheduled regular health appointments (doctor, dentist, pharma etc) and if you do not go you're escorted there at gunpoint. Literally.

My girlfriend's brother-in-law grew up in Cuba and it is not a nice place at all.

Interesting , thanks for the info.
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
SebUK
Posts: 850
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12/11/2014 4:15:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2014 12:04:18 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/10/2014 5:08:57 PM, SebUK wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:49:57 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Are you Cuban and/or have first hand knowledge of its system?
Why do you imply America does is not high quality?

I never referred to the US , 'The Cuban health system is recognized worldwide for its excellence and its efficiency. Despite extremely limited resources and the dramatic impact caused by the economic sanctions imposed by the United States for more than half a century, Cuba has managed to guarantee access to care for all segments of the population and obtain results similar to those of the most developed nations.

During her recent visit to Havana in July of 2014, Margaret Chan, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), impressed by the country's achievements in this field, praised the Cuban health care system: "Cuba is the only country that has a health care system closely linked to research and development. This is the way to go, because human health can only improve through innovation," She also praised "the efforts of the country's leadership for having made health an essential pillar of development" [1]. ' - (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)

I think the Cuban healthcare system being treated as a paragon of virtue a myth. Part of their issue is, however, that they are barred trade from the US. Lack of consumer goods, lack of all medicines in many cases, poor facilities, blackouts, are all common in Cuban hospitals. They may be able to diagnose bronchitis, but they cannot treat it as they have no antibiotics. There is also a shortage of doctors as Castro has sent many of them to Venezuela in order to obtain discounter oil. Indeed, part of the problem is due to the fact government interests trump actual care!
See, eg, http://www.nationalcenter.org...

So part of their healthcare failure is due to poverty and the trade ban to Cuba from the US. However, I would suspect even if that is lifted (also note: arguably the poverty is due to the 'communist' government, meaning the problem still occurs in the government), I still suspect the healthcare would fail on its own merits. It would be 'free', but rationing, the shortage of doctors, and other issues which come from managed care (rationing, for example) would remain.

A good comparison between Canada and the US has been done by NBER, and generally finds that American health outcomes are superior to that of Canada's.
http://www.nber.org...

The reason Canada is a good example is because it is culturally similar to the US. Overall, I don't think single payer healthcare would fix the healthcare issue. However, free market reforms probably would.

Thanks for the sources , I can refer to them in the future if needed :) . Great Answer.
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
18Karl
Posts: 351
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12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.
praise the lord Chin Chin
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.
Max.Wallace
Posts: 29
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12/12/2014 8:16:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Health care mandated by .gov is a tradition of all tyrannical governments.

The Cuban .govers only care about the health of those that are subservient.

The tyrants of Cuba hold up their comrades as trophies to the world.

Why do so many Cubans float over here at their own peril/freedom, if the Cuban .gov is so grand?

You sick sob .govers.
18Karl
Posts: 351
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12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.
praise the lord Chin Chin
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.
18Karl
Posts: 351
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12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?
praise the lord Chin Chin
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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12/12/2014 8:44:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?

I don't like fat capitalist b*stards
18Karl
Posts: 351
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12/12/2014 8:46:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:44:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?

I don't like fat capitalist b*stards

I don't like them too. But that's no true scotsmen fallacy. Do you like pies?
praise the lord Chin Chin
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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12/12/2014 8:46:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:46:13 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?

I don't like fat capitalist b*stards

I don't like them too. But that's no true scotsmen fallacy. Do you like pies?

Are you an idiot?
18Karl
Posts: 351
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12/12/2014 8:55:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:46:45 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:46:13 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?

I don't like fat capitalist b*stards

I don't like them too. But that's no true scotsmen fallacy. Do you like pies?

Are you an idiot?

No?
praise the lord Chin Chin
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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12/12/2014 8:56:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/12/2014 8:55:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:46:45 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:46:13 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:44:25 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:43:58 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:41:51 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/12/2014 8:07:11 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 12/11/2014 7:03:40 PM, 18Karl wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

I would rather die for my liberty than live without it.

Better commit suicide then, because you don't have it.

I like pies.

If you eat enough of them that should do the trick.

Do you like pies?

I don't like fat capitalist b*stards

I don't like them too. But that's no true scotsmen fallacy. Do you like pies?

Are you an idiot?

No?

Do you really want an answer to that question?
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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12/15/2014 10:41:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2014 3:30:39 PM, SebUK wrote:
I am interested in hearing how my Capitalist pro-free market brothers respond to the high quality of Cuban healthcare?

Yep, Cuba can afford that healthcare because they sends their slaves-- I mean selfless doctors to foreign countries, pay them a few cents an hour and make a profit off of them.

http://www.ncpa.org...

Cuba, the utilitarian's wet dream.