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Rand Paul on Alex Jones Show

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/22/2010 12:24:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/22/2010 7:38:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
this guy alex jones sounds like a clown
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/22/2010 7:48:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:38:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
this guy alex jones sounds like a clown

Tell me about it.

Paul hasn't been doing so well on the media circuit lately. This doesn't seem to be any better. Doesn't this guy have media handlers?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/22/2010 7:49:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:48:15 AM, Volkov wrote:
Paul hasn't been doing so well on the media circuit lately. This doesn't seem to be any better. Doesn't this guy have media handlers?

Correction: The New York Times, the Huffington Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc don't like Rand Paul. There's a difference.
Volkov
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5/22/2010 7:51:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:49:45 AM, Nags wrote:
Correction: The New York Times, the Huffington Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc don't like Rand Paul. There's a difference.

No - I don't like Rand Paul, er, as in I don't like how he's handling himself in the media. I knew too little about him to not like him per se. xD

The man clearly fumbles and stumbles during interviews. Not a great media relations guy maybe. I dunno what his problem it, but its painful to watch.
Volkov
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5/22/2010 7:53:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:51:47 AM, Volkov wrote:
No - I don't like Rand Paul, er, as in I don't like how he's handling himself in the media. I know* too little about him to not like him per se. xD

The man clearly fumbles and stumbles during interviews. Not a great media relations guy maybe. I dunno what his problem is*, but its painful to watch.

*Fix'd.

10 am is too early to get up on a Saturday.
Xer
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5/22/2010 7:53:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:51:47 AM, Volkov wrote:
No - I don't like Rand Paul, er, as in I don't like how he's handling himself in the media. I knew too little about him to not like him per se. xD

I think you had your mind made up when you learned that his father is Ron and he is a Republican.

The man clearly fumbles and stumbles during interviews. Not a great media relations guy maybe. I dunno what his problem it, but its painful to watch.

Not at all. You just don't like the policies coming out of his mouth.
Volkov
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5/22/2010 7:56:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:53:06 AM, Nags wrote:
I think you had your mind made up when you learned that his father is Ron and he is a Republican.

I like some of Ron Paul's positions, so I can't despise him for just being a GOPer. Maybe the same is with Rand.

Not at all. You just don't like the policies coming out of his mouth.

Not all of them, no. That much is obvious. But I think I'm objective enough to point out where I think he's falling over himself during interviews. I'd admit it about Democratic politicians too, if I bothered to watch any of their interviews anymore.
Xer
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5/22/2010 8:02:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:56:10 AM, Volkov wrote:
I like some of Ron Paul's positions, so I can't despise him for just being a GOPer. Maybe the same is with Rand.

I believe you've called Ron a crazy right wing extremist before, or something to that affect. Your mind is made up with Rand as well.

Not all of them, no. That much is obvious. But I think I'm objective enough to point out where I think he's falling over himself during interviews.

He doesn't want to answer a yes/no question that the media will kill him over just because they don't like the answer. That's good media relations, not bad.

I'd admit it about Democratic politicians too

Doubtful.
Volkov
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5/22/2010 8:06:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 8:02:34 AM, Nags wrote:
I believe you've called Ron a crazy right wing extremist before, or something to that affect. Your mind is made up with Rand as well.

Have I? I don't remember saying anything like that... if I did, it was probably before I looked into him in any depth.

He doesn't want to answer a yes/no question that the media will kill him over just because they don't like the answer. That's good media relations, not bad.

Yeah I wouldn't, but its not something to fight over.

Doubtful.

I think Howard Dean is kind of a tool. Isn't that proof enough? :(

Mind you, I think everyone thinks Dean is kind of a tool.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/22/2010 1:28:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 7:51:47 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 5/22/2010 7:49:45 AM, Nags wrote:
Correction: The New York Times, the Huffington Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc don't like Rand Paul. There's a difference.

No - I don't like Rand Paul, er, as in I don't like how he's handling himself in the media. I knew too little about him to not like him per se. xD

The man clearly fumbles and stumbles during interviews. Not a great media relations guy maybe. I dunno what his problem it, but its painful to watch.

I'm pretty sure he was a doctor, not a lawyer as most politicians have been, from which we suffer, so he's not as trained to be so quick on his feet as the professional pols. He also takes a pretty controversial libertarian stance, and it's a classic example of freedom versus equality.
comoncents
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5/22/2010 5:03:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 3:32:41 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Does Rand Paul share his father's views about shutting down the IRS?

Yes, that's why he is awesome!
comoncents
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5/22/2010 5:07:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 4:26:45 PM, Puck wrote:
Amusingly he has been accused of racism after defending property owners freedom to bar non whites.

Some would call it amusing, but the racism claim is completely wrong!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 4:26:45 PM, Puck wrote:
Amusingly he has been accused of racism after defending property owners freedom to bar non whites.

As I told Nags earlier, all this is is putting the power of the government into that hands of the private sector. Businesses should not be given the right to discriminate on the basis of race. The stance that Libertarians have on freedom are obscured and say that the businesses are free to be fascists.

@ All those who support this:

House =/= business. You don't have to let anyone into your house because it's your house. However, if you have a business that provides service to the public, you can't deny anyone on the basis of their traits.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/22/2010 5:54:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
When talking about Rand Paul, Sean Hannity was trying to argue that Libertarians were against liberty by strawmanning their arguments about Gay Marriage. Hannity, when distinguishing conservatives from libertarians, said something like "society doesn't need to redefine marriage", yet libertarians don't want the government to define what is and what isn't marriage at all. Bogus.

</rant>
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/22/2010 5:55:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
As I told Nags earlier, all this is is putting the power of the government into that hands of the private sector. Businesses should not be given the right to discriminate on the basis of race. The stance that Libertarians have on freedom are obscured and say that the businesses are free to be fascists.

@ All those who support this:

House =/= business. You don't have to let anyone into your house because it's your house. However, if you have a business that provides service to the public, you can't deny anyone on the basis of their traits.

Private property = private property. And that's all, folks.
wjmelements
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5/22/2010 6:00:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public,

The only organization that can afford to provide a service to the public is the government. Normal businesses provide for individuals or firms.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/22/2010 6:08:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:00:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public,

The only organization that can afford to provide a service to the public is the government. Normal businesses provide for individuals or firms.

Public: open to all persons

http://dictionary.reference.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/22/2010 6:10:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:08:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:00:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public,

The only organization that can afford to provide a service to the public is the government. Normal businesses provide for individuals or firms.

Public: open to all persons

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That's the adjective.
the people constituting a community
I know no business that sells to a community. Only governments provide for the community.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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5/22/2010 6:10:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 4:26:45 PM, Puck wrote:
Amusingly he has been accused of racism after defending property owners freedom to bar non whites.

As I told Nags earlier, all this is is putting the power of the government into that hands of the private sector.
The power of the government? The government operates on the involuntary contributions of the people, and is supposed to work for the people, run by the people. A business operates on profit earned through giving the customers what they want.

Businesses should not be given the right to discriminate on the basis of race.
Governments should not be given the right to tell people what they can and cannot discriminate by.

The stance that Libertarians have on freedom are obscured and say that the businesses are free to be fascists.
You're free to be fascist as long as this fascism does not violate anybody else's rights. And nobody has a right to use the services of your private business.

@ All those who support this:

House =/= business. You don't have to let anyone into your house because it's your house. However, if you have a business that provides service to the public, you can't deny anyone on the basis of their traits.
Non sequitur, and besides, they don't serve the public, they serve individuals.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:08:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:00:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public,

The only organization that can afford to provide a service to the public is the government. Normal businesses provide for individuals or firms.

Public: open to all persons

http://dictionary.reference.com...

Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/22/2010 6:12:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Besides, if that was your definition, the following would simply be begging the question and have no relevance to the private discrimination debate.

At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public, you can't deny anyone on the basis of their traits.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/22/2010 6:12:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:08:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:00:47 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/22/2010 5:12:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
However, if you have a business that provides service to the public,

The only organization that can afford to provide a service to the public is the government. Normal businesses provide for individuals or firms.

Public: open to all persons

http://dictionary.reference.com...

Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.

Beat me to it by 6 seconds.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/22/2010 6:13:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.

Then it is a secret society, cult, or a klan.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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5/22/2010 6:15:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:13:43 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.

Then it is a secret society, cult, or a klan.

Well...

...

I don't see anything that anybody can respond to in that post, actually...
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/22/2010 6:15:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:13:43 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.

Then it is a secret society, cult, or a klan.

lolwut? If my dad decided to stop fixing Mexican cars, his business would be considered a cult?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/22/2010 6:18:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/22/2010 6:15:22 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:13:43 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/22/2010 6:11:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Well, if they're discriminating based on race, they're obviously not public, so your argument falls.

Then it is a secret society, cult, or a klan.

Well...

...

I don't see anything that anybody can respond to in that post, actually...

Seconded.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/22/2010 6:20:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
A business is open to everyone.

Anything else is a black market, cult, or clan.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat