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Ken Ham"s Ark Encounter loses tax incentive

Skepticalone
Posts: 6,094
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12/14/2014 11:24:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://www.patheos.com...

Separation of church and state wins.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/15/2014 11:01:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/14/2014 11:24:18 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
http://www.patheos.com...

Separation of church and state wins.

I don't really see this as a church/state victory, since the tax incentives were due to tourism, and it is religiously themed, but is not a religious institution.
It's a theme park.
My work here is, finally, done.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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12/15/2014 5:31:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/15/2014 11:01:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/14/2014 11:24:18 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
http://www.patheos.com...

Separation of church and state wins.

I don't really see this as a church/state victory, since the tax incentives were due to tourism, and it is religiously themed, but is not a religious institution.
It's a theme park.

Arc Encounters was intended to receive $18 million tax incentive from the Kentucky state government because of its positive impacts on tourism and job creation. If this were the whole story, then you'd probably be right; the state's funding of a for-profit theme park wouldn't infringe upon the separation of church and state. The state government said as much when they preliminarily approved the tax incentive.

Here's the problem: information came out that Arc Encounter was discriminating in employment based on religion. Since Arc Encounter is a for-profit theme park which is receiving tax incentives from the state government, such employment discrimination would be in violation of the separation of church and state. Consequently, the state government informed Arc Encounter's lawyers that "The Commonwealth must have the express written assurance from Ark Encounter, LLC that it will not discriminate in any way on the basis of religion in hiring," or they would not approve the incentives. Arc Encounter, failed to provide this assurance (actually, they actively fought to defend their discriminatory hiring policies) so they lost the tax incentives.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/16/2014 8:41:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/15/2014 5:31:01 PM, Enji wrote:
At 12/15/2014 11:01:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/14/2014 11:24:18 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
http://www.patheos.com...

Separation of church and state wins.

I don't really see this as a church/state victory, since the tax incentives were due to tourism, and it is religiously themed, but is not a religious institution.
It's a theme park.

Arc Encounters was intended to receive $18 million tax incentive from the Kentucky state government because of its positive impacts on tourism and job creation. If this were the whole story, then you'd probably be right; the state's funding of a for-profit theme park wouldn't infringe upon the separation of church and state. The state government said as much when they preliminarily approved the tax incentive.

Here's the problem: information came out that Arc Encounter was discriminating in employment based on religion. Since Arc Encounter is a for-profit theme park which is receiving tax incentives from the state government, such employment discrimination would be in violation of the separation of church and state. Consequently, the state government informed Arc Encounter's lawyers that "The Commonwealth must have the express written assurance from Ark Encounter, LLC that it will not discriminate in any way on the basis of religion in hiring," or they would not approve the incentives. Arc Encounter, failed to provide this assurance (actually, they actively fought to defend their discriminatory hiring policies) so they lost the tax incentives.

Yeah, so, where is the victory for church and state, as I said there wasn't any?
In fact, the fact that the state had promised money to religion themed amusement park should be the concern from these people, shouldn't it?
My work here is, finally, done.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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12/16/2014 9:33:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/16/2014 8:41:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/15/2014 5:31:01 PM, Enji wrote:
At 12/15/2014 11:01:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't really see this as a church/state victory, since the tax incentives were due to tourism, and it is religiously themed, but is not a religious institution.
It's a theme park.

Arc Encounters was intended to receive $18 million tax incentive from the Kentucky state government because of its positive impacts on tourism and job creation. If this were the whole story, then you'd probably be right; the state's funding of a for-profit theme park wouldn't infringe upon the separation of church and state. The state government said as much when they preliminarily approved the tax incentive.

Here's the problem: information came out that Arc Encounter was discriminating in employment based on religion. Since Arc Encounter is a for-profit theme park which is receiving tax incentives from the state government, such employment discrimination would be in violation of the separation of church and state. Consequently, the state government informed Arc Encounter's lawyers that "The Commonwealth must have the express written assurance from Ark Encounter, LLC that it will not discriminate in any way on the basis of religion in hiring," or they would not approve the incentives. Arc Encounter, failed to provide this assurance (actually, they actively fought to defend their discriminatory hiring policies) so they lost the tax incentives.

Yeah, so, where is the victory for church and state, as I said there wasn't any?
In fact, the fact that the state had promised money to religion themed amusement park should be the concern from these people, shouldn't it?

The issue isn't the religious messages of the theme park which would have been permitted. This is a victory for the separation of church and state since state taxpayer dollars are not going towards funding benefits and jobs only for fundamentalist Christians.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/16/2014 9:38:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/16/2014 9:33:06 AM, Enji wrote:
At 12/16/2014 8:41:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/15/2014 5:31:01 PM, Enji wrote:
At 12/15/2014 11:01:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't really see this as a church/state victory, since the tax incentives were due to tourism, and it is religiously themed, but is not a religious institution.
It's a theme park.

Arc Encounters was intended to receive $18 million tax incentive from the Kentucky state government because of its positive impacts on tourism and job creation. If this were the whole story, then you'd probably be right; the state's funding of a for-profit theme park wouldn't infringe upon the separation of church and state. The state government said as much when they preliminarily approved the tax incentive.

Here's the problem: information came out that Arc Encounter was discriminating in employment based on religion. Since Arc Encounter is a for-profit theme park which is receiving tax incentives from the state government, such employment discrimination would be in violation of the separation of church and state. Consequently, the state government informed Arc Encounter's lawyers that "The Commonwealth must have the express written assurance from Ark Encounter, LLC that it will not discriminate in any way on the basis of religion in hiring," or they would not approve the incentives. Arc Encounter, failed to provide this assurance (actually, they actively fought to defend their discriminatory hiring policies) so they lost the tax incentives.

Yeah, so, where is the victory for church and state, as I said there wasn't any?
In fact, the fact that the state had promised money to religion themed amusement park should be the concern from these people, shouldn't it?

The issue isn't the religious messages of the theme park which would have been permitted. This is a victory for the separation of church and state since state taxpayer dollars are not going towards funding benefits and jobs only for fundamentalist Christians.

And that is what I have a problem with.
Are you familiar with Affirmative Action? I'm sure you are.
Did you know that that does not apply to businesses, UNLESS they get government money?
The fact they are discriminating, FOR ANY REASON, is why they lost the contract.

To claim it is due to religious separation is just disingenuous, especially given the fact that this was clearly a religious infused attraction, which the government was more than willing to "fund".
My work here is, finally, done.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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12/16/2014 11:13:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/16/2014 9:38:29 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/16/2014 9:33:06 AM, Enji wrote:
At 12/16/2014 8:41:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Yeah, so, where is the victory for church and state, as I said there wasn't any?
In fact, the fact that the state had promised money to religion themed amusement park should be the concern from these people, shouldn't it?

The issue isn't the religious messages of the theme park which would have been permitted. This is a victory for the separation of church and state since state taxpayer dollars are not going towards funding benefits and jobs only for fundamentalist Christians.

And that is what I have a problem with.
Are you familiar with Affirmative Action? I'm sure you are.
Did you know that that does not apply to businesses, UNLESS they get government money?
The fact they are discriminating, FOR ANY REASON, is why they lost the contract.

To claim it is due to religious separation is just disingenuous, especially given the fact that this was clearly a religious infused attraction, which the government was more than willing to "fund".

The state government does note "The Commonwealth has not and does not provide incentives to any company that discriminates on the basis of religion and will not make an exception for Arc Encounter, LLC," however they also specifically state that "The use of state incentives in this way [to advance religion] violates the separation of church and state provisions of the Constitution and is therefore impermissible." The two aren't mutually exclusive, and the separation of church and state did play a role in the state's decision.

Note that the state was willing to subsidize the theme park as a tourism attraction with Biblical themes because they had been told that Arc Encounter wouldn't discriminate in hiring practices and would be expressly a tourist attraction and not a religious ministry. The state claims that "The Commonwealth's position hasn't changed. The applicant's position has changed," and while Arc Encounter is free to change its position from a tourist attraction to a ministry, "state tourism tax incentives cannot be used to fund religious indoctrination or otherwise be used to advance religion."

Considering that the state government specifically references the separation of church and state in their explanation for why they denied tax incentives to Arc Encounter, LLC - I don't think it's in any way disingenuous to claim that this is a victory for the separation of church and state.