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2 NYPD officers shot dead

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice? The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 7:50:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

Furthermore 1 black man does not represent the whole. So instead of trying to make the narrative that blacks are slapping down an olive branch why not understand the cops have done nothing to mend the divide?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 7:57:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:50:24 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

Furthermore 1 black man does not represent the whole. So instead of trying to make the narrative that blacks are slapping down an olive branch why not understand the cops have done nothing to mend the divide?

Of course he doesn't. But that doesn't mean he cannot damage relations between the two groups by assassinating cops.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...
Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive. http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

Where is there justice? You're full of crap.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 8:20:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.


Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

He's pointing out that you blame the black people for getting "themselves" killed instead of pointing out they they were killed by cops (for no good reason it should be added).
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.


Where is there justice? You're full of crap.
Such
Posts: 1,110
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12/20/2014 8:23:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:27:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:20:43 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.


Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

He's pointing out that you blame the black people for getting "themselves" killed instead of pointing out they they were killed by cops (for no good reason it should be added).

Yes, I realize that. I disagree that they were killed by cops for no good reason. In any case, the cops in this case were in fact assassinated, while the unarmed civilians he's talking about were not. Also, "unarmed civilians" makes them seem totally innocent, when in fact that is rarely (if ever) the case.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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12/20/2014 8:28:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

Is that from Merriam-Webster? I love how you skipped the first definition:
To injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

You probably know this and are just playing dumb, but the word "assassinate" has the connotation that the victim was defenseless. So I ask you, who is more helpless, armed cops sitting in their patrol car, or unarmed civilians, one of whom was a child?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
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12/20/2014 8:32:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

It means that if one commits injustice one should not expect peace. Where there is no justice, there is no peace. The killing of unarmed black men represents no justice carried out by the people who purport to uphold it.

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

The cop used an illegal choke hold. And intention or not if you watch the tape that was extreme excessive force for the minor crime of selling cigarettes.

Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

So the cops kill the child yet you blame the parents .... wow.

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.

None of these cases involved pointing toy guns at the officers. What about this man who was shot by an officer for getting his wallet AFTER being instructed to get his wallet? http://www.cnn.com... Sure this cop is getting punished, but how do you explain his actions in the context of all the other innocent black men being shot and killed?

All you're doing is making excuses for injustice.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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12/20/2014 8:35:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:28:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

Is that from Merriam-Webster? I love how you skipped the first definition:
To injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

You probably know this and are just playing dumb, but the word "assassinate" has the connotation that the victim was defenseless. So I ask you, who is more helpless, armed cops sitting in their patrol car, or unarmed civilians, one of whom was a child?

First, just because the word "assassinate" sometimes carries the connotation that the victim was defenseless, that does not mean that it holds true for all cases. If it did then the following sentence would be wrong: "JFK was assassinated". Now, JFK was not defenseless--he had bodyguards and was the President--but one still says that he was assassinated.

Second, this entire debate seems to be centered on the unjustified idea that killing justifies further killing. I thought that we had moved beyond the era of blood feuds and vendetta. What is this?
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Such
Posts: 1,110
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12/20/2014 8:37:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.


Where is there justice? You're full of crap.

So, basically, what you're saying is that all cops are good people, they always have the best intentions, and black people too often misbehave, resulting in cops needing to put them down for being unruly?

Aren't you a libertarian? And, you support a police state that operates on the premise of "cooperate or die"?

You've got to be kidding me. I can't believe some people can even consider accepting a cop killing an unarmed person, even a suspect. There's a such thing as due process for a reason.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:46:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:37:34 PM, Such wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.


Where is there justice? You're full of crap.

So, basically, what you're saying is that all cops are good people, they always have the best intentions, and black people too often misbehave, resulting in cops needing to put them down for being unruly?

Does it really seem like that's what I'm saying?


Aren't you a libertarian? And, you support a police state that operates on the premise of "cooperate or die"?

If by "cooperate" you mean "don't attack or point guns at cops", then yes.


You've got to be kidding me. I can't believe some people can even consider accepting a cop killing an unarmed person, even a suspect.

That's ridiculous. Cops don't necessarily know whether the suspect is armed, whether they will try to escape, or whether they will try to grab their gun.

There's a such thing as due process for a reason.

I'm not advocating that we replace the justice system with a "shoot on sight" approach, idiot.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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12/20/2014 8:49:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:35:54 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:28:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

Is that from Merriam-Webster? I love how you skipped the first definition:
To injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

You probably know this and are just playing dumb, but the word "assassinate" has the connotation that the victim was defenseless. So I ask you, who is more helpless, armed cops sitting in their patrol car, or unarmed civilians, one of whom was a child?

First, just because the word "assassinate" sometimes carries the connotation that the victim was defenseless, that does not mean that it holds true for all cases. If it did then the following sentence would be wrong: "JFK was assassinated". Now, JFK was not defenseless--he had bodyguards and was the President--but one still says that he was assassinated.

Was JFK packing heat when he was shot? No. In fact the reason he had bodyguards was to protect him since he sure as hell couldn't protect himself.

Second, this entire debate seems to be centered on the unjustified idea that killing justifies further killing. I thought that we had moved beyond the era of blood feuds and vendetta. What is this?

I don't believe any of these killings are justified. Not the cop shootings, not the civilian shootings. What I am pointing out is that Dylan expresses sympathy for some cops who died and condemns their killers as "assassins" but when the victims are black and unarmed, he doesn't seem to care at all. Doesn't that strike you as odd?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:51:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:28:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:13:09 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:06:52 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Great word choice. Armed cops were "assassinated" yet unarmed civilians "got themselves killed"

Do you even know what the word "assassinate" means?

Assassinate: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

Is that from Merriam-Webster? I love how you skipped the first definition:
To injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously


No, I typed "assassinate definition" into Google and it was the first thing that came up.

Oh wait, this is what you call "playing the race card" right? I forgot you don't like it when people shine a light on your ugly prejudices.

You probably know this and are just playing dumb, but the word "assassinate" has the connotation that the victim was defenseless. So I ask you, who is more helpless, armed cops sitting in their patrol car, or unarmed civilians, one of whom was a child?

Answering this question will not tell us anything. In one case, a man traveled to New York for the sole purpose of murdering cops, and killed two who were unaware of his presence. This was obviously a symbolic killing. It was definitely an assassination. On the other hand, it's not justifiable to assume that the cops who killed those people ever planned on doing so or wanted to do so.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 8:56:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:49:08 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:35:54 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:


I don't believe any of these killings are justified. Not the cop shootings, not the civilian shootings. What I am pointing out is that Dylan expresses sympathy for some cops who died and condemns their killers as "assassins" but when the victims are black and unarmed, he doesn't seem to care at all. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

That's not true. If a cop intentionally killed an innocent person (black or otherwise) I would be outraged. However, in all of the examples I've seen, the "victim" provoked the attack in some way. It's not as if cops are just going around shooting black people.
Vox_Veritas
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12/20/2014 8:58:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Just pointing out that the Chokehold black guy did nothing deserving of death.
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ford_prefect
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12/20/2014 8:59:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:56:51 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:49:08 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:35:54 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:


I don't believe any of these killings are justified. Not the cop shootings, not the civilian shootings. What I am pointing out is that Dylan expresses sympathy for some cops who died and condemns their killers as "assassins" but when the victims are black and unarmed, he doesn't seem to care at all. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

That's not true. If a cop intentionally killed an innocent person (black or otherwise) I would be outraged. However, in all of the examples I've seen, the "victim" provoked the attack in some way. It's not as if cops are just going around shooting black people.

Eric Garner would disagree with you, if he were alive
dylancatlow
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12/20/2014 9:02:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:59:19 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:56:51 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:49:08 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:35:54 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:


I don't believe any of these killings are justified. Not the cop shootings, not the civilian shootings. What I am pointing out is that Dylan expresses sympathy for some cops who died and condemns their killers as "assassins" but when the victims are black and unarmed, he doesn't seem to care at all. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

That's not true. If a cop intentionally killed an innocent person (black or otherwise) I would be outraged. However, in all of the examples I've seen, the "victim" provoked the attack in some way. It's not as if cops are just going around shooting black people.

Eric Garner would disagree with you, if he were alive

Probably, but who cares? Eric Garner didn't deserve to die (obviously), but by resisting arrest, he was forcing the cops to use force on him, which is always potentially dangerous.
Skepsikyma
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12/20/2014 9:36:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

The officer used a choke hold, which is prohibited by his police department rules, resulting in the death of a man for selling untaxed cigarettes. This, at the very least, warrants a manslaughter charge, but the officer was not even put to trial. If any civilian had committed this crime, they would have had their day in court,

Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

No, they are not. Rolling up to within two feet of a possible threat without assessing the situation, opening the door, and shooting the suspect within two seconds is not standard police procedure by any stretch of the imagination. It is an extrajudicial execution, and the man should be tried for murder. If you still believe that this officer was a well-trained and responsible one, consider the fact that he was considered unfit for duty by his previous department and resigned as a result, and another department hired him without checking his file. This is the basis of a current lawsuit being filed by the parents of the murdered child.

http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.

If the death penalty is morally questionable because of the looming possibility that there may have been a misjudgement of guilt after several extensive and well analysed trials and retrials, then how much more unjust is it to give police this much leeway when it comes to executing civilians without even a chance of a trial? This is grave injustice, not just an abrogation but a reversal. We live in government which has an entire branch dedicated to the methodical determination of guilt or innocence. The police are a tiny part of the branch which is supposed to apprehend suspects so that they may be judged fairly. When an officer can act as a de facto executioner and apply what ought to be the most gravely considered and scarcely used punishment, we are in a dangerous place. That they have this power at all is dangerous. That we are willing to even consider justifying its use in the most absurd of cases is abominable.

Where is there justice? You're full of crap.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
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12/20/2014 9:53:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 9:36:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:11:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:55:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:48:32 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:38:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:33:58 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

No justice no peace.

Explain how it's "justice" for someone to kill two police officers who haven't done anything wrong because they think (without any definitive proof, by the way) that another cop wrongly killed a black person. Anything who thinks that's justice belongs in another century.

Who said anything about justice?

You did.

No justice =/= Justice

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

The lack of justice is what is causing these killings. Do you think black people have time to sit around and debate the finer subtleties of justice when they are constantly denied it?

Just because a few aggressive black males got themselves shot by acting stupid does not give all black people the right to assassinate any cop they wish. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. In any case, if you really care about this issue, then assassinating cops is the last thing you should be doing.

Eric Garner was not aggressive and was choked to death. https://www.youtube.com...

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

The officer used a choke hold, which is prohibited by his police department rules, resulting in the death of a man for selling untaxed cigarettes. This, at the very least, warrants a manslaughter charge, but the officer was not even put to trial. If any civilian had committed this crime, they would have had their day in court,

Yes, and like I said, it was wrong.


Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy w/a toy gun, was shot with 2 seconds of cops showing up on the scene. No chance to be aggressive.

This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

No, they are not. Rolling up to within two feet of a possible threat without assessing the situation, opening the door, and shooting the suspect within two seconds is not standard police procedure by any stretch of the imagination. It is an extrajudicial execution, and the man should be tried for murder.

Cops are not trained to quickly respond to someone who is pointing a gun at them? I'm pretty sure that's part of their training. I'm not sure how he got himself into the situation (you may be right, I simply don't know). It's certainly not murder, but perhaps manslaughter based on what you said.

If you still believe that this officer was a well-trained and responsible one, consider the fact that he was considered unfit for duty by his previous department and resigned as a result, and another department hired him without checking his file. This is the basis of a current lawsuit being filed by the parents of the murdered child.


http://www.theguardian.com...
John Crawford was not being aggressive when he was killed in a Wal-mart holding a toy gun. http://www.theguardian.com...
Darrien Hunt, a cosplayer, killed while fleeing. That's not being aggressive is it? http://boingboing.net...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.

If the death penalty is morally questionable because of the looming possibility that there may have been a misjudgement of guilt after several extensive and well analysed trials and retrials, then how much more unjust is it to give police this much leeway when it comes to executing civilians without even a chance of a trial?

The death penalty is a controlled, predictable process (usually), whereas police are forced to make very tough decisions very quickly. Thus, blaming them for making the wrong call is not as easy. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not predators.

This is grave injustice, not just an abrogation but a reversal. We live in government which has an entire branch dedicated to the methodical determination of guilt or innocence. The police are a tiny part of the branch which is supposed to apprehend suspects so that they may be judged fairly. When an officer can act as a de facto executioner and apply what ought to be the most gravely considered and scarcely used punishment, we are in a dangerous place. That they have this power at all is dangerous. That we are willing to even consider justifying its use in the most absurd of cases is abominable.

Of course, I agree. I simply don't think that's true of our society.


Where is there justice? You're full of crap.
Skepsikyma
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12/20/2014 10:07:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 9:53:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 9:36:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

The officer used a choke hold, which is prohibited by his police department rules, resulting in the death of a man for selling untaxed cigarettes. This, at the very least, warrants a manslaughter charge, but the officer was not even put to trial. If any civilian had committed this crime, they would have had their day in court,

Yes, and like I said, it was wrong.



This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

No, they are not. Rolling up to within two feet of a possible threat without assessing the situation, opening the door, and shooting the suspect within two seconds is not standard police procedure by any stretch of the imagination. It is an extrajudicial execution, and the man should be tried for murder.


Cops are not trained to quickly respond to someone who is pointing a gun at them? I'm pretty sure that's part of their training. I'm not sure how he got himself into the situation (you may be right, I simply don't know). It's certainly not murder, but perhaps manslaughter based on what you said.

This cop was not walking down the street sipping his coffee only to be accosted by a small boy aiming a realistic looking gun at him. He was responded to a call from a resident concerned that someone was walking around the park outside his home with what looked like a gun. The officer's response was not to stop at a safe distance and assess what could have been a dangerous situation, but to roll right up to the child and shoot him within two seconds. I don't see how that sort of response isn't murder. If my neighbour called me and said that there was a suspicious man across the street, and I rolled up to him and shot him, I would be in jail, and rightfully so. Officers should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.

If you still believe that this officer was a well-trained and responsible one, consider the fact that he was considered unfit for duty by his previous department and resigned as a result, and another department hired him without checking his file. This is the basis of a current lawsuit being filed by the parents of the murdered child.


http://www.theguardian.com...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.

If the death penalty is morally questionable because of the looming possibility that there may have been a misjudgement of guilt after several extensive and well analysed trials and retrials, then how much more unjust is it to give police this much leeway when it comes to executing civilians without even a chance of a trial?

The death penalty is a controlled, predictable process (usually), whereas police are forced to make very tough decisions very quickly. Thus, blaming them for making the wrong call is not as easy. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not predators.

No, we shouldn't. Do a simple search, just one little acronym. COINTELPRO. Read some of the material, and you will hopefully understand why police do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. The Fred Hampton case is a particularly germane example.

This is grave injustice, not just an abrogation but a reversal. We live in government which has an entire branch dedicated to the methodical determination of guilt or innocence. The police are a tiny part of the branch which is supposed to apprehend suspects so that they may be judged fairly. When an officer can act as a de facto executioner and apply what ought to be the most gravely considered and scarcely used punishment, we are in a dangerous place. That they have this power at all is dangerous. That we are willing to even consider justifying its use in the most absurd of cases is abominable.

Of course, I agree. I simply don't think that's true of our society.


It's not true in semi-affluent white society. But that isn't all of our society.

"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/20/2014 10:21:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 10:07:49 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/20/2014 9:53:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2014 9:36:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/20/2014 8:23:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

I thought by "No justice no peace" you meant "Peace would be impossible without this sort of revenge".

Of course this was wrong, but I highly doubt the cop intentionally killed him. He was forcefully resisting arrest and he was a big guy.

The officer used a choke hold, which is prohibited by his police department rules, resulting in the death of a man for selling untaxed cigarettes. This, at the very least, warrants a manslaughter charge, but the officer was not even put to trial. If any civilian had committed this crime, they would have had their day in court,

Yes, and like I said, it was wrong.



This was a terrible tragedy, and I think most of the blame lies with the parents. The toy gun had a piece removed so it was indistinguishable from a real gun at some distance. Cops are trained to respond in such a manner.

No, they are not. Rolling up to within two feet of a possible threat without assessing the situation, opening the door, and shooting the suspect within two seconds is not standard police procedure by any stretch of the imagination. It is an extrajudicial execution, and the man should be tried for murder.


Cops are not trained to quickly respond to someone who is pointing a gun at them? I'm pretty sure that's part of their training. I'm not sure how he got himself into the situation (you may be right, I simply don't know). It's certainly not murder, but perhaps manslaughter based on what you said.

This cop was not walking down the street sipping his coffee only to be accosted by a small boy aiming a realistic looking gun at him. He was responded to a call from a resident concerned that someone was walking around the park outside his home with what looked like a gun. The officer's response was not to stop at a safe distance and assess what could have been a dangerous situation, but to roll right up to the child and shoot him within two seconds. I don't see how that sort of response isn't murder. If my neighbour called me and said that there was a suspicious man across the street, and I rolled up to him and shot him, I would be in jail, and rightfully so. Officers should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.

The boy probably aimed the gun at him as he pulled up. When you see a child with a gun, I don't think it's entirely obvious what you should do. He was probably trying to talk to the boy and tell him to put the gun down, and make sure he understands that he was wielding (what he thought) was a deadly weapon. Are you suggesting he planned to kill the boy and most likely face trial? Which he did, by the way. The grand jury just decided not to indict him.


If you still believe that this officer was a well-trained and responsible one, consider the fact that he was considered unfit for duty by his previous department and resigned as a result, and another department hired him without checking his file. This is the basis of a current lawsuit being filed by the parents of the murdered child.


http://www.theguardian.com...

None of these were unmotivated. If you don't want to be shot by cops, then don't attack them or point guns or toy guns at them.

If the death penalty is morally questionable because of the looming possibility that there may have been a misjudgement of guilt after several extensive and well analysed trials and retrials, then how much more unjust is it to give police this much leeway when it comes to executing civilians without even a chance of a trial?

The death penalty is a controlled, predictable process (usually), whereas police are forced to make very tough decisions very quickly. Thus, blaming them for making the wrong call is not as easy. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not predators.

No, we shouldn't. Do a simple search, just one little acronym. COINTELPRO. Read some of the material, and you will hopefully understand why police do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. The Fred Hampton case is a particularly germane example.

This is grave injustice, not just an abrogation but a reversal. We live in government which has an entire branch dedicated to the methodical determination of guilt or innocence. The police are a tiny part of the branch which is supposed to apprehend suspects so that they may be judged fairly. When an officer can act as a de facto executioner and apply what ought to be the most gravely considered and scarcely used punishment, we are in a dangerous place. That they have this power at all is dangerous. That we are willing to even consider justifying its use in the most absurd of cases is abominable.

Of course, I agree. I simply don't think that's true of our society.


It's not true in semi-affluent white society. But that isn't all of our society.



Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/20/2014 10:24:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/20/2014 7:50:24 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 12/20/2014 7:26:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Because nothing helps improve relations between the police and the black community more than a black man assassinating two police officers. What a f*cking idiot.

Furthermore 1 black man does not represent the whole. So instead of trying to make the narrative that blacks are slapping down an olive branch why not understand the cops have done nothing to mend the divide?

Doesn't this imply that all cops are to be blamed for the actions of a few?
It doesn't seem consistent with your "no justice no peace", especially when you consider police are often above the law, regardless of race.
My work here is, finally, done.