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Why tax the rich more?

crackofdawn
Posts: 120
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12/28/2008 6:17:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I have my own answer, but I want to hear people who are pro for taxing the richer people more. Corporations like Exxon pay billions of dollars in taxes, the top 10% pays 90% of the taxes, yet the lower classes want them taxed more. How about we cut spending enough that in awhile (probably a long time) we can start moving towards an even tax board. A little more is somewhat understandable (although I don't agree with it) but it's getting to so that you get penalized for making money.

Any thoughts?
A man comes to a fork in a road. . He ends up going left where he is ran over by a car. Another person comes to the same fork and decides to right. He also gets ran over by a car. A third person comes to the same fork. He decides that walking up a road in the dark is not smart and takes the grassy middle of the fork. He survives.

Moral: Don't be an extremist, neither side can be right all the time. Sometimes, you have to make your own path.
Juggernaut
Posts: 90
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12/28/2008 7:26:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 6:19:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Flat tax. Progressive tax. Please learn those terms.

Also, open a grammar book while you're at it.

No need to nitpick.
HandsOff
Posts: 504
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12/28/2008 7:34:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Liberals vote to further burden the over-burdened, because they can-- not because it is right or moral. The parasites of society are now the in the majority, with no laws or conscience standing int their way. The won't quit until the host is dead.
Juggernaut
Posts: 90
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12/28/2008 7:50:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 6:17:17 PM, crackofdawn wrote:
I have my own answer, but I want to hear people who are pro for taxing the richer people more. Corporations like Exxon pay billions of dollars in taxes, the top 10% pays 90% of the taxes, yet the lower classes want them taxed more. How about we cut spending enough that in awhile (probably a long time) we can start moving towards an even tax board. A little more is somewhat understandable (although I don't agree with it) but it's getting to so that you get penalized for making money.

Any thoughts?

I agree.

My plans for tax reform:

1) Triple cost of bail. Double fines for violations of the law. Increase tax for released criminals.
2) Lower tariffs toward non-communist countries.
3) Give tax cuts to businesses which create a certain amount of jobs and pass an inspection. Remove all tax cuts from businesses which do not.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/28/2008 8:22:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
2) Lower tariffs toward non-communist countries.
3) Give tax cuts to businesses which create a certain amount of jobs and pass an inspection. Remove all tax cuts from businesses which do not.

Problem:
Sounds to me like you're asserting that government has the right to dictate what sort of businesses should be permitted to keep their money. Sounds to me like, morally speakin,' your government won't be able to lower tariffs toward itself :D.

My plan for tax reform:
No moar taxes, user fees instead, kplzthnx :D
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Juggernaut
Posts: 90
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12/28/2008 9:03:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 8:22:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
2) Lower tariffs toward non-communist countries.
3) Give tax cuts to businesses which create a certain amount of jobs and pass an inspection. Remove all tax cuts from businesses which do not.

Problem:
Sounds to me like you're asserting that government has the right to dictate what sort of businesses should be permitted to keep their money. Sounds to me like, morally speakin,' your government won't be able to lower tariffs toward itself :D.

My plan for tax reform:
No moar taxes, user fees instead, kplzthnx :D

Optional user fees???
How can one live in a country and choose not to have the safety provided by national defense?
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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12/28/2008 9:14:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 6:17:17 PM, crackofdawn wrote:
I have my own answer, but I want to hear people who are pro for taxing the richer people more. Corporations like Exxon pay billions of dollars in taxes, the top 10% pays 90% of the taxes, yet the lower classes want them taxed more. How about we cut spending enough that in awhile (probably a long time) we can start moving towards an even tax board. A little more is somewhat understandable (although I don't agree with it) but it's getting to so that you get penalized for making money.

Any thoughts?

Near flat tax leaning towards the progressive. I agree the rich are taxed way way too much. Discouraging success seems like a stupid idea to me.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
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Me - i was being completely sarcastic
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askbob
Posts: 7,254
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12/28/2008 9:16:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
My plans for tax reform:

1) Triple cost of bail. Double fines for violations of the law. Increase tax for released criminals.
2) Lower tariffs toward non-communist countries.
3) Give tax cuts to businesses which create a certain amount of jobs and pass an inspection. Remove all tax cuts from businesses which do not.

Elimination of Tarriffs, (I didn't think we had them anymore?)
Free trade trumps protectionism.
I could care less if they were communist as long as they are making me rich I say axe the tarriffs.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/28/2008 9:22:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 9:03:39 PM, Juggernaut wrote:
At 12/28/2008 8:22:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
2) Lower tariffs toward non-communist countries.
3) Give tax cuts to businesses which create a certain amount of jobs and pass an inspection. Remove all tax cuts from businesses which do not.

Problem:
Sounds to me like you're asserting that government has the right to dictate what sort of businesses should be permitted to keep their money. Sounds to me like, morally speakin,' your government won't be able to lower tariffs toward itself :D.

My plan for tax reform:
No moar taxes, user fees instead, kplzthnx :D

Optional user fees???
How can one live in a country and choose not to have the safety provided by national defense?

One can't, but no one said anything about separate user fees.

One pays the fees to have law enforcement legally recognize you-- if you don't, crimes against you don't get prosecuted.

National defense is just the cost of protecting the investment in law enforcement, and so comes out of those fees :D.

Fat lotta good free ridin on national defense does ya when ya got no defense from yer neighbor :D
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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12/28/2008 9:28:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
One pays the fees to have law enforcement legally recognize you-- if you don't, crimes against you don't get prosecuted.

Oh Yippee! When my neighbor gets murdered by a nutter, I can feel nice and safe under R_R's system knowing that he won't be prosecuted! Great.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/28/2008 9:31:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Only if your neighbor wasn't paying for prosecution.

Whereas under the current system, your neighbor is in jail, getting raped daily and probably murdered eventually too :D
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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12/28/2008 9:38:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
How would my neighbor be in jail? He's murdered. He could give a crap less about the raging lunatic on the loose.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
beem0r
Posts: 1,155
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12/29/2008 12:08:39 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
People tax the rich higher because it makes the most sense.
First, it's not discouraging success.
a> Success is ridiculously easy to obtain in the country.
b> People who have lofty ambitions do not give up as soon as it's made a little harder.
c> Money makes money, where productivity should make money. Progressive tax makes the rich have to work at least a little bit to maintain their fortunes.
d> The poor are poor because they are either really bad workers, or they have low ambitions. Welfare doesn't make either of these problems any worse, it just makes sure the poor don't get dumber and dumber [free education], get poorer and poorer [welfare systesm, like progressive tax], or get unhealthier and unhealthier, since any of those problems will destroy the poor - and since we need people filling the poor jobs, it would just create more poor people if we allowed that to happen.

Makes the ambitious work harder for their wealth, makes people who were born into their wealth work a little harder to maintain it [though they still don't have to do much to maintain it], and it stops the poor from dying off.
beem0r
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12/29/2008 12:12:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 9:38:36 PM, askbob wrote:
How would my neighbor be in jail? He's murdered. He could give a crap less about the raging lunatic on the loose.

R_R's system wouldn't care about the lunatic unless your neighbor paid user fees. His system is based around his perception of 'fairness,' not based around any kind of utilitarian thinking.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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12/29/2008 7:59:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Picture the scene in an executive office….

Big Boss Man: Ah, "Magma" Karl! Half man, half volcano! Thank you for coming in, please sit down.

Employee: Thank you sir.

Big Boss Man: I expect you are wondering why I've asked to see you. Well, I've been monitoring your performance for a while now and I've got to tell you I'm very impressed. In fact, I'm so impressed that I've decided to offer you a promotion. It will mean a considerable increase in your salary…

Employee: In other words, I'll be paying more tax…

Big Boss Man: …yes, but…

Employee: Well let me tell you what I think about your offer - I think I pay far too much tax already, so you can stuff your job right up your IRS!

(Employee storms out, slams door behind him).

Not an entirely plausible scenario is it? Of course, everybody resents paying tax, but no so much that they would refuse a pay increase just because they didn't want to pay more tax.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/29/2008 10:15:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/28/2008 9:38:36 PM, askbob wrote:
How would my neighbor be in jail?

For not paying his taxes.

He wouldn't have time to be murdered at his home I guess... or to ever really live.

Compare apples to apples. Ya wanna discuss what happens to people who don't pay the government in my system, ya have to compare it to what happens to those who don't pay in the system you seem to advocate (essentially the present one).

Not an entirely plausible scenario is it?
It happens. At the very least, people have tried to delay raises to delay tax.

And reducing the incentive to do something still discourages it.

Stating "money makes money" in our current economic context just seems kinda silly dunnit?

Smart use of money makes money, maybe. Figuring out what a smart use of it is, is work. :D
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/29/2008 10:16:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I, for example, would probably be studying for a career that pays a lot better than the one I'm planning to study for now if there were no taxes.

I'm an extreme case of it, but still.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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12/29/2008 10:20:45 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/29/2008 10:16:54 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I, for example, would probably be studying for a career that pays a lot better than the one I'm planning to study for now if there were no taxes.

I'm an extreme case of it, but still.

Huh? Shouldn't it be the other way around? W/o taxes, you wouldn't really have as much as an incentive to have an extra lair of financial security. Then again, given that there would be user fees which you'd pretty much "have" to pay for, I don't see much of a change.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/29/2008 10:24:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/29/2008 10:20:45 AM, Logical-Master wrote:
At 12/29/2008 10:16:54 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I, for example, would probably be studying for a career that pays a lot better than the one I'm planning to study for now if there were no taxes.

I'm an extreme case of it, but still.

Huh? Shouldn't it be the other way around? W/o taxes, you wouldn't really have as much as an incentive to have an extra lair of financial security. Then again, given that there would be user fees which you'd pretty much "have" to pay for, I don't see much of a change.

The user fees would presumably be slightly cheaper, since the government would have to provide a good value for the dollar to avoid being replaced, not to mention the lack of welfare type stuff...

Course, the main reason why taxes affect my career choice is because my career choice is essentially a long political campaign starting in the military.

Like I said, extreme case of it :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/29/2008 10:25:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
And btw, there is no such thing as financial security when the government can just change the tax rates anytime it pleases-- which once it's broached that principle it can, and it has before, even in the US (at one point the top tax rate was what, 90%, 95?)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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12/29/2008 11:00:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/29/2008 12:08:39 AM, beem0r wrote:
People tax the rich higher because it makes the most sense.
First, it's not discouraging success.
a> Success is ridiculously easy to obtain in the country.
Tell that to all the Bill Gates who didn't make the cut. It takes a lot to start your own business, especially when you have a family that is depending on that income. We should encourage entrepreneurship as much as possible.
b> People who have lofty ambitions do not give up as soon as it's made a little harder.
Correct but clearly you are discouraging it.
c> Money makes money, where productivity should make money. Progressive tax makes the rich have to work at least a little bit to maintain their fortunes.
Wrong it simply does wealth redistribution. Anyone who knows economics can tell you that at the current point they are at as far as taxation, the govt. isn't making any more revenue off them, they're simply redistributing the tax dollars. To the people who aren't as successful. The only downfall is that the lower classes have a much lower spend:to:save ratio. Thus hurting our economy.

d> The poor are poor because they are either really bad workers, or they have low ambitions. Welfare doesn't make either of these problems any worse, it just makes sure the poor don't get dumber and dumber [free education], get poorer and poorer [welfare systesm, like progressive tax], or get unhealthier and unhealthier, since any of those problems will destroy the poor - and since we need people filling the poor jobs, it would just create more poor people if we allowed that to happen.
Wrong. Although I'm not for completely eliminating it and not for completely having a flat tax. Things need to be so that the poor aren't dying in the streets, however it needs to be extremely hard on the poor, which it really isn't for the most part in this country. The fact is, we don't need to have things be moderately hard for the upper classes. Things should be easy, they've been ambitious and succeeded. Detracting from that success to fund inadequacy is completely noproductive. Its not like we're not advocating that they not be taxed, simply that paying such a high amount in taxes is ridiculous.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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12/29/2008 11:06:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/29/2008 10:25:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And btw, there is no such thing as financial security when the government can just change the tax rates anytime it pleases-- which once it's broached that principle it can, and it has before, even in the US (at one point the top tax rate was what, 90%, 95?)

Lol when you're a wealthy person and most of the industrial world is controlled by a raving lunatic, people will pay the govt. a good part of their money for the safety to work and enjoy life.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/29/2008 11:16:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/29/2008 11:06:11 AM, askbob wrote:
At 12/29/2008 10:25:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And btw, there is no such thing as financial security when the government can just change the tax rates anytime it pleases-- which once it's broached that principle it can, and it has before, even in the US (at one point the top tax rate was what, 90%, 95?)

Lol when you're a wealthy person and most of the industrial world is controlled by a raving lunatic, people will pay the govt. a good part of their money for the safety to work and enjoy life.

Raving lunatic?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
askbob
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12/29/2008 11:22:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
AKA Hitler?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
crackofdawn
Posts: 120
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12/29/2008 2:57:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Hitler isn't all bad. Maybe a raving lunatic at the end... but he did have some good ideas.
A man comes to a fork in a road. . He ends up going left where he is ran over by a car. Another person comes to the same fork and decides to right. He also gets ran over by a car. A third person comes to the same fork. He decides that walking up a road in the dark is not smart and takes the grassy middle of the fork. He survives.

Moral: Don't be an extremist, neither side can be right all the time. Sometimes, you have to make your own path.
askbob
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12/29/2008 3:36:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You're joking? Seriously, I hope you are.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
crackofdawn
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12/29/2008 4:16:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Let me clarify, I WOULD NOT WANT TO IDOLIZE HITLER. I just think that SOME (not a majority) of his ideas weren't that bad. Although other things he did are quite horrific.
A man comes to a fork in a road. . He ends up going left where he is ran over by a car. Another person comes to the same fork and decides to right. He also gets ran over by a car. A third person comes to the same fork. He decides that walking up a road in the dark is not smart and takes the grassy middle of the fork. He survives.

Moral: Don't be an extremist, neither side can be right all the time. Sometimes, you have to make your own path.
JustCallMeTarzan
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12/29/2008 4:50:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Crackofdawn is correct - Hitler did have some very good economic policies - he changed Germany from the brink of financial ruin to a world power in two decades. Obviously he was not a raving ECONOMIC lunatic.

Of course, his social policies.... those were lunacy. I'm not sure why it surprised anyone - he's pretty clear about anti-semetic thought in Mein Kampf...

***************************

As for the rich/tax/poor

Make the first, say, 30,000 of everyone's income completely tax free. After that, everyone pays like 15%. This really isn't that bad - everyone has a basic living wage, and those that make more than the wage pay a slightly higher tax rate (3%). There higher rate would probably be offset by the reduction in the number of social programs the government would be offering.