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Defending Workers' Rights

brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 5:29:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Women working for Count Pototsky in pre-revolutionary Russia had to sign the following agreement:

I hereby pledge myself:

1. I go out to work at sunrise and work until sunset
2. If I leave work without legitimate cause I must pay a double forfeit, not asking for any pay for the time of my work.
3. I pledge myself to go to work the moment I am called.
4. If the steward summons me to any work on Sundays or holidays, I am not entitled to refuse.
5. If I go anywhere on weekdays or holidays without the permission of the steward, I must work to make up these days.
6. If I fall sick or die my family must do my work in my place.
7. Under no circumstances can I leave work before the time is up.

(The Russian Horizon, N. Gangulee, page 24)

However, this agreement would be deemed legally unenforceable in most civilised countries. European Union member states, including the UK, have ratified the rights and freedoms set out in the European Convention on Human Rights.

The sections relevant to employment proceedings are:

· Article 6, (right to fair trial)
· Article 4, (prohibition of slavery or forced labour)
· Article 8, (right to privacy)
· Article 9, (freedom of thought, conscience and religion)
· Article 10, (freedom of expression)
· Article 11, (The right to freedom of association, including joining a trade union)
· Article 14, (prohibition of discrimination)

However, the new Prime Minister of Great Britain: the Eton and Oxford educated, union-bashing Tory son of a filthy-rich stockbroker and a parasitic aristocrat David Cameron, recently announced: "we will abolish the Human Rights Act".

http://www.conservatives.com...

So, this is good news for workers then? I don't think so.

Possibly better news for greedy, unscrupulous employers? Yes, very probably.

The workers must stand up and fight this draconian proposal tooth and nail. Ordinary men and women cannot let the Tories take us back to the days when the landed gentry and wealthy industrialists dictated the terms and conditions of employment without any regard for their workers' wellbeing whatsoever.
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mongoose
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6/9/2010 6:35:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't see what the Human Rights Act has to do with the contract you mentioned. Could you explain this?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 7:57:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 6:35:28 AM, mongoose wrote:
I don't see what the Human Rights Act has to do with the contract you mentioned. Could you explain this?

The Human Rights Act ratifies the EU Convention on Human Rights which protects workers' rights.

The new Conservative-led government wants to abolish it so that employers are once again legally allowed to abuse and exploit their employees.
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Reasoning
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6/9/2010 8:39:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Can one quit at any time?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 9:12:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 8:39:17 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Can one quit at any time?

Well, that's their argument.

If workers don't like the terms and conditions of employment they can always leave.

The Tories say that the country needs to be more competitive and the Human Rights Act prevents employers from driving down labour costs.

That's all well and good but thanks to the global recession we now have over 2 million people unemployed and you can't get unemployment benefit if you leave your job voluntarily.

In other words, the Tories want to make Britain the sweatshop of Europe so we can compete with India and China.

If Cameron gets his way the working classes will once again be living in Dickensian slums trying to eke out a meagre living working in dangerous conditions for next to no money. Meanwhile, the streets will be full of kids selling matches and shining shoes to supplement the family income.
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brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 9:17:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Having said that, many working class people voted Tory at the last election.

They didn't believe people like me when I told them that Tories only look after their own and don't care about the ordinary man in the street.

They refused to take my advice and vote Labour.

I really hope they SUFFER.
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Reasoning
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6/9/2010 9:31:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:17:13 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
I really hope they SUFFER.

That is quite cruel of you.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 9:34:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:31:23 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/9/2010 9:17:13 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
I really hope they SUFFER.

That is quite cruel of you.

Well...perhaps. But it will teach them a lesson and perhaps in future they'll vote Labour - the party that was formed to defend workers' rights.
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Reasoning
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6/9/2010 9:39:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:34:04 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Well...perhaps. But it will teach them a lesson and perhaps in future they'll vote Labour - the party that was formed to defend workers' rights.

This "let's teach them a lesson" plan is very, very troubling, especially from a professed "leftist".

It reminds me of the "parenting" strategy of the most loathsome James Dobson.

The entire idea is a holdover from the traditional authoritarian Right. Not until we can defeat this urge for punishment can we overcome.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/9/2010 9:48:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't see the problem. The workers signed the contract, no one is forcing them to do so. They can also leave at any time.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/9/2010 9:57:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Brian, what do the Lib Dems have to say about it? I can't see them supporting this for any amount of crap in return, and the Conservatives need them to do this.
Vi_Veri
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6/9/2010 9:58:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:48:47 AM, Nags wrote:
I don't see the problem. The workers signed the contract, no one is forcing them to do so. They can also leave at any time.

lol Yeah I'm sure it was that easy of a decision.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/9/2010 10:11:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:48:47 AM, Nags wrote:
I don't see the problem. The workers signed the contract, no one is forcing them to do so. They can also leave at any time.

they signed up their family for servitude...

I gotta problem with that.

also.. it's the soviets no?

it was prolly either that or SOMETHING... they weren't free to do anything.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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6/9/2010 10:12:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:11:34 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
also.. it's the soviets no?

no.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/9/2010 10:14:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:58:33 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
lol Yeah I'm sure it was that easy of a decision.

I never said it was easy.

At 6/9/2010 10:11:34 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
they signed up their family for servitude...

I gotta problem with that.

As long as their family consented, I see no problem. Would you also have a problem if they signed up their families for tropical vacations?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/9/2010 10:16:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:14:42 AM, Nags wrote:
As long as their family consented, I see no problem. Would you also have a problem if they signed up their families for tropical vacations?

requiring their family to pay???

yes.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Xer
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6/9/2010 10:19:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:16:16 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
requiring their family to pay???

yes.

You clearly missed the part about consent.
mattrodstrom
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6/9/2010 10:22:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:19:54 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/9/2010 10:16:16 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
requiring their family to pay???

yes.

You clearly missed the part about consent.

mmm...

also... fck monarchical governments land grants to evil russian nobles...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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6/9/2010 10:25:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:14:42 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/9/2010 9:58:33 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
lol Yeah I'm sure it was that easy of a decision.

I never said it was easy.


So what's the choice they could have made, in your opinion?
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 10:28:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 9:57:22 AM, Volkov wrote:
Brian, what do the Lib Dems have to say about it? I can't see them supporting this for any amount of crap in return, and the Conservatives need them to do this.

They don't like it but they are Quislings and for them power more important than principles.
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Volkov
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6/9/2010 10:32:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:28:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
They don't like it but they are Quislings and for them power more important than principles.

So they're not doing anything to stop it? Not even making some noise?
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 10:36:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:32:02 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/9/2010 10:28:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
They don't like it but they are Quislings and for them power more important than principles.

So they're not doing anything to stop it? Not even making some noise?

Well, in truth they have insisted that many of the principles of the Act should be enshrined in a new Act of Parliament that will effectively replace it.

The Tories accepted that because it gives them some "wriggle room" to please their friends in big business.
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Volkov
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6/9/2010 10:39:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:36:58 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Well, in truth they have insisted that many of the principles of the Act should be enshrined in a new Act of Parliament that will effectively replace it.

The Tories accepted that because it gives them some "wriggle room" to please their friends in big business.

I see. And what about the principles concerning worker employment standards? 'Cause if it is put in there, then I don't see where anything is going wrong.
Xer
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6/9/2010 10:50:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:25:53 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
So what's the choice they could have made, in your opinion?

Probably work. Although I can safely say most of this problem was government caused. The Russia government, even pre-1917, had a pretty solid record of oppressing the peasants.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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6/9/2010 10:54:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
We had workers rights before the humans rights act, it is being abolished to preserve rights. Such as our right to deport foreign serial killers or the right of a police officer to defend himself against neo-nazi fake anarchists.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
brian_eggleston
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6/9/2010 10:57:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:39:32 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/9/2010 10:36:58 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Well, in truth they have insisted that many of the principles of the Act should be enshrined in a new Act of Parliament that will effectively replace it.

The Tories accepted that because it gives them some "wriggle room" to please their friends in big business.

I see. And what about the principles concerning worker employment standards? 'Cause if it is put in there, then I don't see where anything is going wrong.

Perhaps I am guilty of over-dramatising. The Bill for the replacement Act is yet to be drafted but it is the Tories' stated aim to make the labour market "more flexible".

Given their history of union-bashing and "cutting red tape" when it comes to employment law they are likely to be quite aggressive.

Don't forget, the Lib Dems only have 50 seats to the Tories 300 and are, therefore, a very junior partner.

Plus, they have bigger fish to fry - they want to protect health and education spending and also secure the voting reform that will help them win more seats at the next election.
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Reasoning
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6/9/2010 10:58:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:57:03 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Plus, they have bigger fish to fry - they want to protect health and education spending

*facepalm*
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Volkov
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6/9/2010 11:00:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/9/2010 10:50:40 AM, Nags wrote:
Probably work. Although I can safely say most of this problem was government caused. The Russia government, even pre-1917, had a pretty solid record of oppressing the peasants.

It's not "government caused," though it was certainly a willing player in it. It's "human caused" - it's what people do. Whether they're in government, in a corporation or in a debate. Strength of position and of power makes us feel good when we exercise it.