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The Politics of "American Sniper"

YYW
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1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people. He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with. He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle. While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle. Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.
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thett3
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1/20/2015 9:58:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have a strong feeling you haven't actually seen the movie
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

In one of the most powerful scenes in the film a child picks up an RPG off of a dead militant and begins pointing it at the same target, while Kyle silently begs him to drop it and, thankfully, he does. There are other children that he had to kill.

The justifications the main character uses for going to war are basically the same as everyone has used in going to war throughout history. Before getting their you're defending your country, after arriving your obligation is to your comrades. He specifically went back for a fourth tour to avenge a friend who had died at the hands of an enemy sniper, leaving his family behind to plunge into the war zone once again. Some people would view that as heroic, others as wrong depending on your conception of justice.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior. If the real guy glorified and enjoyed killing, his movie counterpart disagreed and viewed his job as an unfortunate necessity of warfare. Which of course his job is. Would you rather we didn't have snipers?

No one walked out of that movie theater yelling "yee haw, lets kill us some terrorists!" The mood was somber and reflective.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

In one of the most powerful scenes in the film a child picks up an RPG off of a dead militant and begins pointing it at the same target, while Kyle silently begs him to drop it and, thankfully, he does. There are other children that he had to kill.

The justifications the main character uses for going to war are basically the same as everyone has used in going to war throughout history. Before getting their you're defending your country, after arriving your obligation is to your comrades. He specifically went back for a fourth tour to avenge a friend who had died at the hands of an enemy sniper, leaving his family behind to plunge into the war zone once again. Some people would view that as heroic, others as wrong depending on your conception of justice.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior. If the real guy glorified and enjoyed killing, his movie counterpart disagreed and viewed his job as an unfortunate necessity of warfare. Which of course his job is. Would you rather we didn't have snipers?

No one walked out of that movie theater yelling "yee haw, lets kill us some terrorists!" The mood was somber and reflective.

But of course I'm just southern white trash, so who really cares what I think
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/20/2015 12:07:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM, YYW wrote:
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people. He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with. He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle. While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle. Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.

Have you even read the book? He even says that he does not like to kill people, and it does not bring him pleasure! He is the deadliest, by the way, as snipers are required to record their kills, and he has the highest recorded amount and nonofficial amount. He was only doing his job, and he could not even take a shot without his superiors' consent.
Suh dude

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The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/20/2015 12:08:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh, and by the way, it can't bring him pleasure if he is dead, which he is.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/20/2015 12:09:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

In one of the most powerful scenes in the film a child picks up an RPG off of a dead militant and begins pointing it at the same target, while Kyle silently begs him to drop it and, thankfully, he does. There are other children that he had to kill.

The justifications the main character uses for going to war are basically the same as everyone has used in going to war throughout history. Before getting their you're defending your country, after arriving your obligation is to your comrades. He specifically went back for a fourth tour to avenge a friend who had died at the hands of an enemy sniper, leaving his family behind to plunge into the war zone once again. Some people would view that as heroic, others as wrong depending on your conception of justice.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior. If the real guy glorified and enjoyed killing, his movie counterpart disagreed and viewed his job as an unfortunate necessity of warfare. Which of course his job is. Would you rather we didn't have snipers?

No one walked out of that movie theater yelling "yee haw, lets kill us some terrorists!" The mood was somber and reflective.

But of course I'm just southern white trash, so who really cares what I think

Have you read the book? It is much better than the movie.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
YYW
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1/20/2015 12:24:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:58:36 AM, thett3 wrote:
I have a strong feeling you haven't actually seen the movie

I don't have to see the movie to know how people are responding to it. That's all over the news, and has been for some time. The subject of this post is not the verifiable, or accurate truth of the movie, but the way people have *actually responded* to it.

Even still, are you suggesting that I watch the movie to get the verifiable truth of what happened with our famed American Sniper in Iraq? Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting... though please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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YYW
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1/20/2015 12:28:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

So... we're not talking about "the actual movie" but "the way people have responded to it" and sensationalized the movie's protagonist. And I also didn't compare the movie to Nazi propaganda so.... I'm not sure why you mentioned that either.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior.

I'm talking about the *actual guy* here... only the movie insofar as what it means that it (the movie) has become an impetus to sensationalize Chris Kyle. Bradley Cooper may have portrayed a very sympathetic character. I assume he did, because that's how movie tickets are sold. But, this is about *the guy* not *the fiction Bradley Cooper portrayed*, who actually enjoyed what he was doing.
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YYW
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1/20/2015 12:30:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM, thett3 wrote:
But of course I'm just southern white trash, so who really cares what I think

So... there are two Chris Kyles:

The Chris Kyle who was portrayed in the movie (who may have been a very sympathetic figure), and "the actual guy" who lied about what he did, exaggerated his stories and even claimed to "punch out" Jesse Ventura.
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KhaosMage
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1/20/2015 2:07:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have less desire to see this movie if it is based off a real person. :(
A shame, because it looked really, really good.
Sidewalker
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1/20/2015 3:06:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 12:28:24 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

So... we're not talking about "the actual movie" but "the way people have responded to it" and sensationalized the movie's protagonist. And I also didn't compare the movie to Nazi propaganda so.... I'm not sure why you mentioned that either.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior.

I'm talking about the *actual guy* here... only the movie insofar as what it means that it (the movie) has become an impetus to sensationalize Chris Kyle. Bradley Cooper may have portrayed a very sympathetic character. I assume he did, because that's how movie tickets are sold. But, this is about *the guy* not *the fiction Bradley Cooper portrayed*, who actually enjoyed what he was doing.

And you know all about the "actual guy" here how? In depth study of Michael Moore tweets perhaps?
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jnedwards11
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1/20/2015 3:43:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM, YYW wrote:
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

There is not a "Gun enthusiasts" exclusion on those that rally behind, or support this american hero. Patriots from all across this country respect and appreciate Chris Kyle, irrespective of their feelings on guns. I would be interested to see any proof you have to back up this view.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people.

Proof again? I've seen him celebrate the successful completion of his teams' missions. I've NEVER seen or heard of him celebrating wonton death. And I suspect I've read and know a considerable amount more of this hero than you do.

He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with.

He enjoys saving American lives, that is what brought him pleasure, and the fact that he is willing to use his time and put his life and limb in such dire circumstances to protect those Americans (along with the rights of someone like you), makes him a HERO!!!!

He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

You have made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what this man saw or thought.
But, to be fair, I would see any enemy capable of their atrocities as nothing less than savage and I would do everything in my legal power to destroy them. As did Kyle.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle.
Americans period. No further distinction needed.

While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle.

Ah yes, baselessly derogate an entire group of people before attempting to make your point. A proven tactic indeed! At any rate, your statement was redundant. Using guns to hunt/defend is being like Chris Kyle.

Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

I wonder what I would sound like in the inverse of this statement. If I classified everyone that disagreed with me as "hippies, inter-city thugs and Al Sharpton (who hates white people) [that] rally around their black president." Does that sound like a guy with a reasonable opinion to you? My guess is no.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

_Ok Bart Simpson, by "Like,change the context", do you mean "Like, give this man an entirely different motive and character." Going to war to defend your country is not comparable to shooting up a classroom full of innocent children. That is like, such a stupid though that it's hard to read....dude.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.

You're imbreed, HIV positive and probably black too (evinced by your HIV). There, apparently I can make completely racist/unsubstantiated claims and medical diagnosis' about people I don't know as well. ;)
Vox_Veritas
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1/20/2015 3:53:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If I said what I think about this thread, it'd most definitely cause a nasty flame war.
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Maikuru
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1/20/2015 3:56:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 2:07:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
I have less desire to see this movie if it is based off a real person. :(
A shame, because it looked really, really good.

It's directed by Clint Eastwood. You're seeing this movie. Tulle refuses and I need someone to talk about it with.
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Maikuru
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1/20/2015 3:58:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:

I didn't read your post because I'm scared of spoilers, but did you enjoy it? Rate it on a scale from 1 to 10.
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Vox_Veritas
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1/20/2015 4:04:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Has YYW's account been hacked or something? Because some of his recent comments and threads are...unusual.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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wrichcirw
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1/20/2015 4:48:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM, YYW wrote:
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people. He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with. He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

You've described Chris Kyle the man (who going by his book would probably look like a serial killer http://www.theguardian.com...), but not the Chris Kyle depicted in the movie American Sniper. The Chris Kyle in the movie was anything BUT comfortable about killing.

You really should see this movie before pretending to know enough to talk about it.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle. While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle. Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
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1/20/2015 4:49:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 3:56:34 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/20/2015 2:07:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
I have less desire to see this movie if it is based off a real person. :(
A shame, because it looked really, really good.

It's directed by Clint Eastwood. You're seeing this movie. Tulle refuses and I need someone to talk about it with.

It's a great movie. It captures the moral ambiguity of warfare quite well, which I understand is also Clint Eastwood's position about war. It's surprisingly complex even though it is straightforwardly told.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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1/20/2015 4:50:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 4:04:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Has YYW's account been hacked or something? Because some of his recent comments and threads are...unusual.

I see nothing unusual about his posts. I'm used to this level of...quality from him.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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1/20/2015 4:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

In one of the most powerful scenes in the film a child picks up an RPG off of a dead militant and begins pointing it at the same target, while Kyle silently begs him to drop it and, thankfully, he does. There are other children that he had to kill.

The justifications the main character uses for going to war are basically the same as everyone has used in going to war throughout history. Before getting their you're defending your country, after arriving your obligation is to your comrades. He specifically went back for a fourth tour to avenge a friend who had died at the hands of an enemy sniper, leaving his family behind to plunge into the war zone once again. Some people would view that as heroic, others as wrong depending on your conception of justice.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior. If the real guy glorified and enjoyed killing, his movie counterpart disagreed and viewed his job as an unfortunate necessity of warfare. Which of course his job is. Would you rather we didn't have snipers?

No one walked out of that movie theater yelling "yee haw, lets kill us some terrorists!" The mood was somber and reflective.

But of course I'm just southern white trash, so who really cares what I think

You really should be putting spoiler tags on stuff like this. You're giving the whole movie away.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
thett3
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1/20/2015 4:57:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 3:58:45 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:

I didn't read your post because I'm scared of spoilers, but did you enjoy it? Rate it on a scale from 1 to 10.

I definitely enjoyed it. It was definitely not a war glorifying movie--and it also wasn't an explicitly anti war film, which is relatively rare. Maybe an 8? Idk. I suck at 1-10 ratings, lol
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
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1/20/2015 4:57:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 4:53:16 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:
Like, if you'd actually seen the movie or seen it without your political glasses on, you would realize that there wasn't much glory in it. Just because it didn't play out the usual "war is hell" trope as strongly as most war movies doesn't mean it wasn't there--the main character had severe PTSD, lost friends in the war, had to kill children. To compare this to Nazi propaganda as some leftists have shows only how delusional they are.

In one of the most powerful scenes in the film a child picks up an RPG off of a dead militant and begins pointing it at the same target, while Kyle silently begs him to drop it and, thankfully, he does. There are other children that he had to kill.

The justifications the main character uses for going to war are basically the same as everyone has used in going to war throughout history. Before getting their you're defending your country, after arriving your obligation is to your comrades. He specifically went back for a fourth tour to avenge a friend who had died at the hands of an enemy sniper, leaving his family behind to plunge into the war zone once again. Some people would view that as heroic, others as wrong depending on your conception of justice.

I know nothing of the real Chris Kyle, I can only point out how attempting to make the movie into some political issue is ridiculous--of course there are *some* political implications since it deals with a political topic, but there are better fights that don't make you look like a nitpicking social justice warrior. If the real guy glorified and enjoyed killing, his movie counterpart disagreed and viewed his job as an unfortunate necessity of warfare. Which of course his job is. Would you rather we didn't have snipers?

No one walked out of that movie theater yelling "yee haw, lets kill us some terrorists!" The mood was somber and reflective.

But of course I'm just southern white trash, so who really cares what I think

You really should be putting spoiler tags on stuff like this. You're giving the whole movie away.

Yeah, you're right. To be fair though, anyone coming into a thread debating the political implications of the movie should expect some spoilers
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
wrichcirw
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1/20/2015 5:03:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 12:09:43 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:32:24 AM, thett3 wrote:

Have you read the book? It is much better than the movie.

You seem to have read the book. According to the Guardian:

"The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer."
"In his memoir, Kyle reportedly described killing as "fun", something he "loved"; he was unwavering in his belief that everyone he shot was a "bad guy". "I hate the damn savages," he wrote. "I couldn"t give a flying [f***] about the Iraqis." He bragged about murdering looters during Hurricane Katrina, though that was never substantiated."
"In Kyle"s version of the Iraq war, the parties consisted of Americans, who are good by virtue of being American, and fanatic Muslims whose "savage, despicable evil" led them to want to kill Americans simply because they are Christians."
"That question [about whether or not American Sniper was being used as propaganda] came to the fore last week on Twitter when several liberal journalists drew attention to Kyle"s less Oscar-worthy statements. "Chris Kyle boasted of looting the apartments of Iraqi families in Fallujah," wrote author and former Daily Beast writer Max Blumenthal. "Kill every male you see," Rania Khalek quoted, calling Kyle an "American psycho"."

http://www.theguardian.com...

Do you agree or disagree with the Guardian's characterization? (I would note that the Guardian is far more permissive of profanity than this board, lol)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
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1/20/2015 5:17:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Watch the movie!

Clearly, I am not talking about "the actual movie" but "the guy." As I clarified above, but which is apparently lost upon quite a few, while Bradley Cooper may have portrayed a sympathetic character, *the actual guy* is not so sympathetic.

The suggestion that I look to the movie for an actual portrayal of the guy as he was is absurd.

Has YYW's account been hacked?

No.
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YYW
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1/20/2015 5:21:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Spoilers

Should have been implied, as thett mentioned.

What the hell is YYW talking about?

I'm talking about the politics of the movie "American Sniper." The political implications of celebrating a movie that inaccurately portrayed a guy as a sympathetic character, that was in fact not a sympathetic character IRL, are not a debate about "whether Bradley Cooper's fictional portrayal is sympathetic or not."

I do not see how that is so hard to comprehend.
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Maikuru
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1/20/2015 5:26:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 4:49:59 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/20/2015 3:56:34 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/20/2015 2:07:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
I have less desire to see this movie if it is based off a real person. :(
A shame, because it looked really, really good.

It's directed by Clint Eastwood. You're seeing this movie. Tulle refuses and I need someone to talk about it with.

It's a great movie. It captures the moral ambiguity of warfare quite well, which I understand is also Clint Eastwood's position about war. It's surprisingly complex even though it is straightforwardly told.

Interesting. I'm a fan of Clint's work and the fact that he isn't too heavy handed with his themes. I'm glad to hear this is on par. I'll certainly check it out at some point.
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Maikuru
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1/20/2015 5:27:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 4:57:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 3:58:45 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:18:06 AM, thett3 wrote:

I didn't read your post because I'm scared of spoilers, but did you enjoy it? Rate it on a scale from 1 to 10.

I definitely enjoyed it. It was definitely not a war glorifying movie--and it also wasn't an explicitly anti war film, which is relatively rare. Maybe an 8? Idk. I suck at 1-10 ratings, lol

lol that's good, I'm glad. I like my war movies to be told somewhere in the middle, as far as sides go.
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TN05
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1/20/2015 5:35:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM, YYW wrote:
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people. He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with. He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle. While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle. Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.

I expect better of you, YYW. You're a pretty reasonable guy, and normally you avoid repeating whatever inane outrage that leftists are mad at, especially when it comes to foreign policy and the military. This isn't well-written or well thought-out - it almost seems like a conservative satirical column using all the anti-film talking points.

Yes, Kyle had problems. War does that to people. Yes, snipers kill people in the shadows. Guess who also kills people? Suicide bombers who will set off their vest at the first sight of troops. Snipers are the ideal way to take out these people before they can blow themselves up to murder civilians and soldiers. Does it suck we have to have snipers? Sure. It sucks we have to have war, and yet we celebrate our efforts to free the slaves and liberate France. It's really inane to argue people can't be honored for their achievements in war.

Really, American Sniper does in fact present Kyle as a whole - it's part of the draw of it. The personal conflict is just as big of a deal as the war stuff. If American Sniper were just a poorly-written, inane propaganda movie for white-trash rednecks (like Elysium was for uber-liberal urban hipsters), it wouldn't be getting rather positive reviews from film critics, who are notorious for being very tough on films and being very liberal. And moreover, it isn't a liberal or conservative film it simply isn't possible for a film to gross $110 million in one week just from red states alone. It's best state was California and it's fourth-best theater was in Manhattan. Really, I'd just say go see the film and then judge.
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1/20/2015 5:38:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 5:35:55 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:17:04 AM, YYW wrote:
The movie "American Sniper" tells a story about Chris Kyle, an American soldier in Iraq from Texas who claims to have been the most lethal sniper in the history of American wars. Bradley Cooper tells us that it's not about politics... as if that means anything.

(In the event you didn't know, a sniper is a person who shoots his or her target from a hidden or concealed position, usually from great distances.)

The premise of the movie is to glorify the unmerciful, uncompromising taking of life -from the shadows. I'm reminded of another scene out of a movie, where a necessary brute shouts "You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!"

It goes without saying that the American military is necessary, but the way gun enthusiasts rally around the mostly exaggerated narrative that Chris Kyle claims was his is really disturbing. It borders on sickness.

Kyle is a guy who celebrates killing other people. He enjoys it. It brings him pleasure, and the fact that it brings him pleasure is something he's very comfortable with. He does not see the Iraqis he killed as humans; only savages.

There is a real issue in what it means that American gun enthusiasts glorify Kyle. While they (these absurd right-wing nutters) claim that the only reason they want guns is to hunt with and for self defense, the real reason they like guns is because they want to feel like Kyle. Kyle is basically the US military equivalent of Zarathustra; a glorified psychopath; and hailing him as our hero really fundamentally changes the American public's relation to war.

Just War theory teaches us that killing other people is something that should not be celebrated. Christian theology teaches us that killing other people isn't something that should be celebrated. The US military tradition of honor is in direct conflict with this kind of thing. But here we are... as soldiers, rednecks and Sarah Palin (who is also a redneck) rally around their psychopathic hero.

The kind of guy that Kyle is could have easily been one of those mass shooters we hear about on the news; but instead he grew up and joined the US military. Like, change the context of what he's doing, and think about what that means.

Chris Kyle is no hero. He's a fraud and a psychopath; but at the same time a folk hero to America's white trash.

I expect better of you, YYW. You're a pretty reasonable guy, and normally you avoid repeating whatever inane outrage that leftists are mad at, especially when it comes to foreign policy and the military. This isn't well-written or well thought-out - it almost seems like a conservative satirical column using all the anti-film talking points.

Yes, Kyle had problems. War does that to people. Yes, snipers kill people in the shadows. Guess who also kills people? Suicide bombers who will set off their vest at the first sight of troops. Snipers are the ideal way to take out these people before they can blow themselves up to murder civilians and soldiers. Does it suck we have to have snipers? Sure. It sucks we have to have war, and yet we celebrate our efforts to free the slaves and liberate France. It's really inane to argue people can't be honored for their achievements in war.

I didn't say that all snipers are bad people, although that might have been reasonably understood to be implied by the comment I made about "changing the context." Even still, I understand why snipers are necessary. My issue is with glorifying it, and especially glorifying someone who took pleasure in it.
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