Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

A Question for the Brits

Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 9:50:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So I took AP Euro last year, and we talked quite a bit about the British political parties and how they changed over the years.

So the Conservatives once supported the monarchy, the Liberals supported free speech, free market, freedom of religion, etc., and the Labor Party supported socialism.

Now, the Conservatives support free market economics, and most of the things the Liberals used to. The Labor Party still supports socialism.

So what does the Liberal party support now?
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 9:52:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Moderate socialism and the rollback of the surveillance state.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:11:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here's the short answer.

The Conservatives formed as the Tory party in the 1640's to support the Monarchy and the ruling classes. Some, including me, would argue little has changed. Their leader Prime Minister Davis Cameron, is Eton and Oxford educated, with aristocratic heritage. The same applies to much of the Cabinet.

The Liberals formed as the Whigs a little later to support parliamentary democracy through the emancipation of certain commoners: professionals; clergymen; landowning farmers and so on, but not peasants.

The Labour Party formed much later in the early 1900's to support the rights of the working man. They were a mixture of trade unionists and socialists although the word "socialist" hasn't been used in Labour Party circles for many years now. These days the Labour Party is a moderate left-of-centre party that broadly supports free market capitalism.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism. To the rich, it plays right into their hands. To the poor, it has become taboo to oppose it, based on the dubious notion that they will lose even more of what capitalism has already stripped from them. In essence, it is a cycle of oppression that feeds into itself: once capitalism has locked down the liberties of the proletariat and empowered the elites, it becomes nearly impossible to challenge it.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:36:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism. To the rich, it plays right into their hands. To the poor, it has become taboo to oppose it, based on the dubious notion that they will lose even more of what capitalism has already stripped from them. In essence, it is a cycle of oppression that feeds into itself: once capitalism has locked down the liberties of the proletariat and empowered the elites, it becomes nearly impossible to challenge it.

You are historically denied. Marx predicted that, under capitalism, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Yet somehow, the standard of living for most (working class) Britons increased steadily throughout the nineteenth century and stayed high ever since.

In fact, Communism didn't work in Britain for this exact reason: Marx was wrong. Instead, the only Communist Revolution in Europe happened in the most backwards country in Europe for most of modern history: Russia. Why did they take over? Because they opposed an unpopular war and promised bread. Then they had a grand time killing mass amounts of Russians for the next 50 years.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:50:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Actually, the Democrats would be split between Liberal and Labour.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:52:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Switzerland
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:53:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Britain was very capitalist for the first half of the 19th century.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:53:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:52:44 AM, mongoose wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Switzerland

Switzerland really doesn't have an army, so that helps a lot in regards to taxes.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 11:00:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:53:51 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Britain was very capitalist for the first half of the 19th century.

Oh? It had no taxes? It had separation of economy and state? Allodial property was in private hands, rather than subject to the sovereign's eminent domain?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 11:02:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:53:52 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:52:44 AM, mongoose wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Switzerland

Switzerland really doesn't have an army, so that helps a lot in regards to taxes.

They have an army. It, combined with the natural terrain, was enough of a deterrent to save them from invasion during two World Wars.

Plus, their federal government is very, very loose. Citizens are taxed much higher on the canton level.

But yes, they don't regulate their economy very much.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 11:05:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 11:00:12 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:53:51 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Britain was very capitalist for the first half of the 19th century.

Oh? It had no taxes? It had separation of economy and state? Allodial property was in private hands, rather than subject to the sovereign's eminent domain?

Capitalist meaning "following Adam Smith's economics" and not regulating business, not no taxes.

The British government did make a lot of money selling off common lands. I don't know if that counts as allodial property (define please).
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 11:18:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 11:05:11 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 11:00:12 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:53:51 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:51:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:32:57 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:27:55 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:23:27 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
It's no wonder all the parties support capitalism.

They support what now?

Am I to expect abolition of taxes in 4-6 weeks?

Has there ever been a European country without high taxes in modern history?
There might be a small one with low taxes, I dunno. Either way there's never been a capitalist country.

Britain was very capitalist for the first half of the 19th century.

Oh? It had no taxes? It had separation of economy and state? Allodial property was in private hands, rather than subject to the sovereign's eminent domain?

Capitalist meaning "following Adam Smith's economics" and not regulating business, not no taxes.

Taxes are a regulation that state that businessmen and all others shall surrender x to the thieves creating the taxes.

Additionally, Britain had numerous other regulations at the time.

The British government did make a lot of money selling off common lands. I don't know if that counts as allodial property (define please).
Whoever homesteads it has absolute rights to it, there is no "commonality of land," no king can take it from you.

(the British government legitimately acquired very little , so they could not in a capitalist country have much to sell).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 11:44:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:53:52 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:

Switzerland really doesn't have an army, so that helps a lot in regards to taxes.

Why have an army when you're a neutral state and are protected by natural barriers? Switzerland ftw! ^^
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 7:21:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 9:50:17 AM, Valtarov wrote:

Now, the Conservatives support free market economics, and most of the things the Liberals used to. The Labor Party still supports socialism.

All these parties support free markets and taxes.

So what does the Liberal party support now?

The Conservative party.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/23/2010 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 7:21:19 PM, feverish wrote:
At 6/23/2010 9:50:17 AM, Valtarov wrote:

Now, the Conservatives support free market economics, and most of the things the Liberals used to. The Labor Party still supports socialism.

All these parties support free markets and taxes.
And life and death and Horde and Alliance...
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 12:39:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Not at all, the parties are noting alike.

We have no Republican party.

Labor party is Fabian Socialist. Most goverments are moderate Socialist. The UK has three marxist parties. No one votes for the other real Socialist ones.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 12:41:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 12:39:41 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Not at all, the parties are noting alike.

We have no Republican party.

Labor party is Fabian Socialist. Most goverments are moderate Socialist. The UK has three marxist parties. No one votes for the other real Socialist ones.

What is your perception of the Republican Party?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 12:44:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 12:41:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:39:41 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Not at all, the parties are noting alike.

We have no Republican party.

Labor party is Fabian Socialist. Most goverments are moderate Socialist. The UK has three marxist parties. No one votes for the other real Socialist ones.

What is your perception of the Republican Party?

A moderate form of real Conservatism. Like feverish says, the Liberal party supports the Conservative party because the only conservative party we have is the closet Fascist BNP.

The UK is all liberal.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Valtarov
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 2:11:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 12:44:33 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:41:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:39:41 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Not at all, the parties are noting alike.

We have no Republican party.

Labor party is Fabian Socialist. Most goverments are moderate Socialist. The UK has three marxist parties. No one votes for the other real Socialist ones.

What is your perception of the Republican Party?

A moderate form of real Conservatism. Like feverish says, the Liberal party supports the Conservative party because the only conservative party we have is the closet Fascist BNP.

The UK is all liberal.

Liberal in the traditional British sense or liberal meaning leftist socialist?
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 2:26:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/23/2010 10:11:00 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
The Conservatives formed as the Tory party in the 1640's to support the Monarchy and the ruling classes.

Yes.

Some, including me, would argue little has changed.

That depends on what you mean by "little".

Their leader Prime Minister Davis Cameron, is Eton and Oxford educated, with aristocratic heritage. The same applies to much of the Cabinet.

Not Oxford educated! lol.

The Liberals formed as the Whigs a little later to support parliamentary democracy through the emancipation of certain commoners: professionals; clergymen; landowning farmers and so on, but not peasants.

The Whigs were very, very moderate liberals.

The Labour Party formed much later in the early 1900's to support the rights of the working man. They were a mixture of trade unionists and socialists although the word "socialist" hasn't been used in Labour Party circles for many years now. These days the Labour Party is a moderate left-of-centre party that broadly supports free market capitalism.

The Labour Party doesn't support free markets, lol.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 4:14:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 2:26:53 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Their leader Prime Minister Davis Cameron, is Eton and Oxford educated, with aristocratic heritage. The same applies to much of the Cabinet.

Not Oxford educated! lol.

Yes he was. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...


The Labour Party doesn't support free markets, lol.

Yes it does. http://www.guardian.co.uk...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk... http://www.newleftreview.org...

Where do you get your information Reasoning?

lol (lack of laughter)
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/24/2010 4:24:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 4:14:50 PM, feverish wrote:
At 6/24/2010 2:26:53 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Their leader Prime Minister Davis Cameron, is Eton and Oxford educated, with aristocratic heritage. The same applies to much of the Cabinet.

Not Oxford educated! lol.

Yes he was. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

You misread. My comment was made in mock horror.

The Labour Party doesn't support free markets, lol.

Yes it does.

Slavery is freedom.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/25/2010 1:43:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 2:11:44 PM, Valtarov wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:44:33 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:41:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 12:39:41 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 6/23/2010 10:08:54 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
So it seems to me that basically
Conservative Party = Republican Party
Liberal Party = Democrats
Labor Party =Socialist Communist BS

Not at all, the parties are noting alike.

We have no Republican party.

Labor party is Fabian Socialist. Most goverments are moderate Socialist. The UK has three marxist parties. No one votes for the other real Socialist ones.

What is your perception of the Republican Party?

A moderate form of real Conservatism. Like feverish says, the Liberal party supports the Conservative party because the only conservative party we have is the closet Fascist BNP.

The UK is all liberal.

Liberal in the traditional British sense or liberal meaning leftist socialist?

The Social sense not the Fiscal sense.
'sup DDO -- july 2013