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The Free Market is great

Libertatis
Posts: 9
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1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.
Josh_debate
Posts: 170
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1/23/2015 11:20:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Agreed
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
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1/23/2015 12:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

I love the invisible hand of the market, but capitalism doesn't look after the little people very well. Wealth naturally flows disproportionately to the few and you have to do wee bit of tweaking to make sure everyone has a good start in life.
Not my gumdrop buttons!

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Josh_debate
Posts: 170
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1/23/2015 5:41:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

i wouldn't say socialism or communism helps the community
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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1/23/2015 5:57:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 11:42:56 AM, Josh_debate wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:45 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Free markets encourage a fat poor class.

Not really

Care to elaborate?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/23/2015 5:58:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 5:57:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:42:56 AM, Josh_debate wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:45 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Free markets encourage a fat poor class.

Not really

Care to elaborate?

lol
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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1/23/2015 6:03:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 5:58:37 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/23/2015 5:57:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:42:56 AM, Josh_debate wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:45 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Free markets encourage a fat poor class.

Not really

Care to elaborate?

lol

Damn you!
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/23/2015 6:04:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 6:03:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 5:58:37 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/23/2015 5:57:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:42:56 AM, Josh_debate wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:45 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Free markets encourage a fat poor class.

Not really

Care to elaborate?

lol

Damn you!

Couldn't help it, sorry.
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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1/23/2015 6:47:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Agreed
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

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Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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1/23/2015 7:44:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.

The Nordic countries are fine examples of my point.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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1/23/2015 7:47:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 7:44:14 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.

The Nordic countries are fine examples of my point.

Norway has a free market.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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1/23/2015 8:01:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 7:47:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:44:14 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.

The Nordic countries are fine examples of my point.

Norway has a free market.

So do all of the Nordic countries. But they all heavily invest in social welfare programs and universal healthcare and education. That's what makes them socialist.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/23/2015 9:38:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 5:41:14 PM, Josh_debate wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

i wouldn't say socialism or communism helps the community
Did I say it helps? It does promote community more than a free market does, IMO.

Either way, care to engage or discuss or defend your assertion?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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1/24/2015 9:43:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:01:42 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:47:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:44:14 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.

The Nordic countries are fine examples of my point.

Norway has a free market.

So do all of the Nordic countries. But they all heavily invest in social welfare programs and universal healthcare and education. That's what makes them socialist.

Having a government run charity funded by oil dependant idiot nations like the United States is obviously beneficial for countries like Norway and Saudi Arabia.

Economic Socialism is NOT the reason for the happiness or prosperity though. Most governments that siphon 30 percent of their national income from other nations through exports can afford luxurious bread and circus programs.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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1/24/2015 3:37:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 9:43:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:01:42 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:47:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:44:14 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:29:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:10:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

The problem with economic theories (especially capitalism) is they're only concerned with the flow of money. But what's missing is the point of money. And that is essentially human well-being and happiness. In regards to happiness and standard of living we find that socialist countries have the highest in both areas.

That is only partly true.

The Nordic countries are fine examples of my point.

Norway has a free market.

So do all of the Nordic countries. But they all heavily invest in social welfare programs and universal healthcare and education. That's what makes them socialist.

Having a government run charity funded by oil dependant idiot nations like the United States is obviously beneficial for countries like Norway and Saudi Arabia.

This is an unnecessary criticism on the US. Especially if you favor capitalism over socialism. Oil is a commodity like any other, you can't blame countries for spending it. But what is interesting of the oil producing nations, I'm willing to bet Norway has the near the highest average standard of living. Which goes to my point. The point of economics isn't simply to watch the flow of money go around, what's important is how that money improves peoples lives. The may have the most money in the world, but that means nothing when you have high rates of poverty and debt and an unhappy populace.

Economic Socialism is NOT the reason for the happiness or prosperity though. Most governments that siphon 30 percent of their national income from other nations through exports can afford luxurious bread and circus programs.

Then do you care to try to explain the correlation between happiness and socialism?
Chang29
Posts: 732
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1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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1/24/2015 9:16:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Better in what sense? I have no right to interfere with your property, but that just assumes that we have the right to property in the first place. It certainly seems unjust to me that there should be a society where the product of that society's work is controlled by a few. It doesn't make any sense to me that people advocate the free market when its inevitable conclusion is massive inequality, unless you plan to be the beneficiary of that inequality, would only really be trading the opportunity to live in a better world for one in which you have the power to buy almost anything you want.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Chang29
Posts: 732
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1/24/2015 11:51:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Free markets do not hinder a feeling of community, a free market is a must to maintain the feeling of community. People choose their level of participation without force through voluntary cooperation. Without free markets people can not exchange to make their lives better. Voluntary exchange is key to strong communities.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/25/2015 7:47:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:51:41 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Free markets do not hinder a feeling of community, a free market is a must to maintain the feeling of community.
False.
Volition CAN create a community, if one desires to be a part of it. However, if you are all "in it together", that is a community that is thrust upon you.

People choose their level of participation without force through voluntary cooperation. Without free markets people can not exchange to make their lives better. Voluntary exchange is key to strong communities.
Oh. So, tell me what your voluntary exchanges were when you were ten regarding your parents. Or, did you have a sense of community without any volition?
Chang29
Posts: 732
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1/25/2015 8:09:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 7:47:27 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:51:41 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Free markets do not hinder a feeling of community, a free market is a must to maintain the feeling of community.
False.
Volition CAN create a community, if one desires to be a part of it. However, if you are all "in it together", that is a community that is thrust upon you.

People choose their level of participation without force through voluntary cooperation. Without free markets people can not exchange to make their lives better. Voluntary exchange is key to strong communities.
Oh. So, tell me what your voluntary exchanges were when you were ten regarding your parents. Or, did you have a sense of community without any volition?

Community can only be thrust upon a person by force, a person should never be forced to participate. A free market is the only way to ensure that coercion is not used.

The child example is a very poor example, family is different than community.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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1/25/2015 8:15:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Free market is one of the most horrible things economies point towards these days. It can lead to oligarchies that literaly control people's lifes by controling economy. It would be foolish to any country to give such freedom to markets, that's precisely why free market doesn't really exist yet.
Chang29
Posts: 732
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1/25/2015 8:31:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 8:15:11 AM, Otokage wrote:
Free market is one of the most horrible things economies point towards these days. It can lead to oligarchies that literaly control people's lifes by controling economy. It would be foolish to any country to give such freedom to markets, that's precisely why free market doesn't really exist yet.

Share a few historical examples of where a free market controlled peoples lives without governmental coercion.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/25/2015 8:13:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 8:09:57 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:47:27 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:51:41 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Free markets do not hinder a feeling of community, a free market is a must to maintain the feeling of community.
False.
Volition CAN create a community, if one desires to be a part of it. However, if you are all "in it together", that is a community that is thrust upon you.

People choose their level of participation without force through voluntary cooperation. Without free markets people can not exchange to make their lives better. Voluntary exchange is key to strong communities.
Oh. So, tell me what your voluntary exchanges were when you were ten regarding your parents. Or, did you have a sense of community without any volition?

Community can only be thrust upon a person by force, a person should never be forced to participate. A free market is the only way to ensure that coercion is not used.

This is true; however, it is not an answer to WHY one is better than the other.
Why is coercion a bad thing in terms of building a community?

The child example is a very poor example, family is different than community.
Why?
Chang29
Posts: 732
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1/26/2015 4:53:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 8:13:38 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/25/2015 8:09:57 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:47:27 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:51:41 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:32:00 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/24/2015 6:01:01 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 12:28:43 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:30:59 AM, Libertatis wrote:
I feel that having a free market is much better then things like socialism or communism. I would love to discuses this with people.

Why is it so much better, then?
Why is competition better than community?

In a free market people can act as any community they choose with nobody in ordering them to participate.

Yep, a free market can hinder a feeling of community. That is what I asked, and what you did not answer.
Free markets do not hinder a feeling of community, a free market is a must to maintain the feeling of community.
False.
Volition CAN create a community, if one desires to be a part of it. However, if you are all "in it together", that is a community that is thrust upon you.

People choose their level of participation without force through voluntary cooperation. Without free markets people can not exchange to make their lives better. Voluntary exchange is key to strong communities.
Oh. So, tell me what your voluntary exchanges were when you were ten regarding your parents. Or, did you have a sense of community without any volition?

Community can only be thrust upon a person by force, a person should never be forced to participate. A free market is the only way to ensure that coercion is not used.

This is true; however, it is not an answer to WHY one is better than the other.
Why is coercion a bad thing in terms of building a community?

The child example is a very poor example, family is different than community.
Why?

Free markets do not have coercion, other ideas use force during transactions. Why is coercion bad? Well, people do not make the best decisions with a gun to their head. Most people will just follow the instructions from the person issuing threats.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.