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Kansas Constitutional Carry

lannan13
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1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/25/2015 6:57:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

Good
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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1/25/2015 7:16:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

I agree. Pat Roberts voted against the Farm Bill and yet won huge in the rual areas of Kansas. It just baffels me.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/25/2015 7:18:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 7:16:46 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

I agree. Pat Roberts voted against the Farm Bill and yet won huge in the rual areas of Kansas. It just baffels me.

There are some good things about Kansas. The constant breeze is nice. Good BBQ. Excellent steak houses in Kansas City.

Crazy republican politicians.
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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1/25/2015 7:19:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 7:18:17 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:16:46 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

I agree. Pat Roberts voted against the Farm Bill and yet won huge in the rual areas of Kansas. It just baffels me.

There are some good things about Kansas. The constant breeze is nice. Good BBQ. Excellent steak houses in Kansas City.

Crazy republican politicians.

I agree that they do some crazy things, but that's what you get in a state where you have the Phelps running for governor.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 1:35:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Am I the only one who would support this?
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Fly
Posts: 2,042
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1/26/2015 1:41:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It will be a revenue loss for the state but probably not significant. That state is hurting for revenue, though.

I understand that there are 5 or so other states that have already done this. Anyone know which, for how long, and what data we have so far on the results?

Hopefully these are the very questions that Kansas legislators are considering, but I have my doubts...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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1/26/2015 7:08:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 1:35:40 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Am I the only one who would support this?

Nope.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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1/26/2015 7:11:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 1:41:01 PM, Fly wrote:
It will be a revenue loss for the state but probably not significant. That state is hurting for revenue, though.

I understand that there are 5 or so other states that have already done this. Anyone know which, for how long, and what data we have so far on the results?

Hopefully these are the very questions that Kansas legislators are considering, but I have my doubts...

Alaska, Vermont, Texas, Wyoming, and Arizona are states that have it so far.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Courts have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from an originalist perspective, it is a right
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 7:27:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.

Why?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 7:31:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:27:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.

Why?

To keep gun out of the hands of most Americans. But really 16k, you don't want to have this conversation with me. I would actually round up all automatic weapons, and fine people hundreds of thousands of dollars/impose prison sentences for illegal firearm charges.

And all automatic weapons, most non-revolver handguns which had magazines that held more than eight rounds, and basically every non-sporting rifle (by which I mean all other than weapons conventionally used for game hunting purposes) would carry a mandatory minimum of five years unless a person went through the equivalent of military basic training to know how to handle firearms.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 7:34:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Ignorant kangaroo court puppets of the NRA have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from the perspective of wanna-be constitutional law scholars like Robert Bourke and other similarly inept republican judicial trolls who invented firearm ownership as a constitutional right in the 1960s by way of their absurd interpretation of the second amendment that deviates from all previous jurisprudence on the issue, it is a right

*fixed
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 7:56:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:31:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:27:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.

Why?

To keep gun out of the hands of most Americans. But really 16k, you don't want to have this conversation with me. I would actually round up all automatic weapons, and fine people hundreds of thousands of dollars/impose prison sentences for illegal firearm charges.

And all automatic weapons, most non-revolver handguns which had magazines that held more than eight rounds, and basically every non-sporting rifle (by which I mean all other than weapons conventionally used for game hunting purposes) would carry a mandatory minimum of five years unless a person went through the equivalent of military basic training to know how to handle firearms.

Oh so you would jail my entire family even though none of us are law breakers. Seems legit. Yet, we have all had 'basic' military training--firearms wise.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 7:58:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:34:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Ignorant kangaroo court puppets of the NRA have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from the perspective of wanna-be constitutional law scholars like Robert Bourke and other similarly inept republican judicial trolls who invented firearm ownership as a constitutional right in the 1960s by way of their absurd interpretation of the second amendment that deviates from all previous jurisprudence on the issue, it is a right

*fixed

lol. It was in accordance with the Heller and Macdonald cases. I don't care about the second amendment, honestly, but I support firearms due to pragmatic reasons.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 7:58:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:56:06 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:31:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:27:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.

Why?

To keep gun out of the hands of most Americans. But really 16k, you don't want to have this conversation with me. I would actually round up all automatic weapons, and fine people hundreds of thousands of dollars/impose prison sentences for illegal firearm charges.

And all automatic weapons, most non-revolver handguns which had magazines that held more than eight rounds, and basically every non-sporting rifle (by which I mean all other than weapons conventionally used for game hunting purposes) would carry a mandatory minimum of five years unless a person went through the equivalent of military basic training to know how to handle firearms.

Oh so you would jail my entire family even though none of us are law breakers. Seems legit. Yet, we have all had 'basic' military training--firearms wise.

If you failed to surrender your weapons or obtain sufficient gun handling training within a period of two years or so after I passed the bill, yes I would.

You would really dislike the laws I'd pass to keep guns out of the hands of people who are under 21 and not members of the US military.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 8:00:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:58:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:56:06 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:31:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:27:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:24:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:22:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

MA is a may issue state. No states ban concealed carry anymore.

True, but many have elaborate registration/permit requirements... and all should.

Why?

To keep gun out of the hands of most Americans. But really 16k, you don't want to have this conversation with me. I would actually round up all automatic weapons, and fine people hundreds of thousands of dollars/impose prison sentences for illegal firearm charges.

And all automatic weapons, most non-revolver handguns which had magazines that held more than eight rounds, and basically every non-sporting rifle (by which I mean all other than weapons conventionally used for game hunting purposes) would carry a mandatory minimum of five years unless a person went through the equivalent of military basic training to know how to handle firearms.

Oh so you would jail my entire family even though none of us are law breakers. Seems legit. Yet, we have all had 'basic' military training--firearms wise.

If you failed to surrender your weapons or obtain sufficient gun handling training within a period of two years or so after I passed the bill, yes I would.

Call in the SWAT team nig we are extremists


You would really dislike the laws I'd pass to keep guns out of the hands of people who are under 21 and not members of the US military.

probably lol
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
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1/26/2015 8:03:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:58:32 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:34:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Ignorant kangaroo court puppets of the NRA have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from the perspective of wanna-be constitutional law scholars like Robert Bourke and other similarly inept republican judicial trolls who invented firearm ownership as a constitutional right in the 1960s by way of their absurd interpretation of the second amendment that deviates from all previous jurisprudence on the issue, it is a right

*fixed

lol. It was in accordance with the Heller and Macdonald cases. I don't care about the second amendment, honestly, but I support firearms due to pragmatic reasons.

If the US had a circumstance where all or most Americans had military training, I would too... but we don't, and I don't trust rednecks, gang bangers or angry white people who are from the suburbs with guns.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/26/2015 8:11:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 8:03:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:58:32 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:34:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Ignorant kangaroo court puppets of the NRA have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from the perspective of wanna-be constitutional law scholars like Robert Bourke and other similarly inept republican judicial trolls who invented firearm ownership as a constitutional right in the 1960s by way of their absurd interpretation of the second amendment that deviates from all previous jurisprudence on the issue, it is a right

*fixed

lol. It was in accordance with the Heller and Macdonald cases. I don't care about the second amendment, honestly, but I support firearms due to pragmatic reasons.

If the US had a circumstance where all or most Americans had military training, I would too... but we don't, and I don't trust rednecks, gang bangers or angry white people who are from the suburbs with guns.

lol you're a much better forum warrior than I am. Arguing how things affect society on aggregate don't seem to matter here :P
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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/26/2015 8:17:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:20:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:18:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 7:14:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Kansas is a very strange state with at least some very dumb politicians.

Are you willing to say the same about Vermont (an extremely liberal state), which also has this law?

Vermont is a weird state but for other reasons. I like Vermont in some respects just as I like Kansas in some respects (spectacular BBQ), but at the same time that doesn't mean I approve of all of their laws.

Fair enough. Vermont is really liberal but really rural. They have no reason to support a gun ban, really. IMO, urban areas are generally going to support gun control and rural areas generally won't - regardless of ideology.

A much better state would be MA, which has no such law. MA, however, very well may be the best state in the union.

In terms of New England you guys are the best, if only because you consistently elect Republican governors. :P
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 8:18:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 8:11:00 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 8:03:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:58:32 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:34:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

Also it is a right. Ignorant kangaroo court puppets of the NRA have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from the perspective of wanna-be constitutional law scholars like Robert Bourke and other similarly inept republican judicial trolls who invented firearm ownership as a constitutional right in the 1960s by way of their absurd interpretation of the second amendment that deviates from all previous jurisprudence on the issue, it is a right

*fixed

lol. It was in accordance with the Heller and Macdonald cases. I don't care about the second amendment, honestly, but I support firearms due to pragmatic reasons.

If the US had a circumstance where all or most Americans had military training, I would too... but we don't, and I don't trust rednecks, gang bangers or angry white people who are from the suburbs with guns.

lol you're a much better forum warrior than I am. Arguing how things affect society on aggregate don't seem to matter here :P

The problem here is that guns are a cultural issue:

On the borderlands between Texas and Mexico, there are areas where guns are actually necessary. But in downtown Houston, guns are a really bad idea at the bar scene.

Guns are definitely necessary in the badlands of Montana for hunting, and personal safety against wild animals. Guns have no place in Chicago, Illinois, however.

Guns are probably a good thing to have in the Colorado rockies, but there are entirely too many of them in South Central LA.

I say this, because I appreciate that guns mean different things to different people in different places. And a gun in the hand of a gang banger in LA is not analogous to a gun in the hand of a Minuteman in Arizona.

But there should still be a national baseline of competence that every person who desires to own a gun should have. Extensive training should be that baseline, and the reason to have that training be so extensive (I'm talking about a six month course here, at minimum) is to make it much harder for people who are not "law abiding citizens" to get them.

I also think that if a gang banger tried to go through that kind of process, he might not be a gang-banger anymore. Enough time spent with white people might make him reconsider his criminal inclinations. The knowledge that the people who actually had guns *really* knew how to use them, as well, might make unlicensed criminals think twice before doing stupid sh!t, too.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/26/2015 8:19:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 7:26:11 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2015 7:17:10 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/25/2015 2:00:18 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Kansas Law makers are concidering a Constitutional Carry. This means that you no longer need a permit to conceal and carry. (http://www.dailykos.com...)

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree with this. If they want to carry a gun without a permit, they have a legal option - open carry. Concealed carry is a privilege, not a right. I would be interested to see how this works in other states, but I really don't think this is a great idea.

Open carry has less of a deterrent effect. Whatever makes people obtain more carry permits, the better. So I support this for pragmatic reasons. It has been studied in other states... Crime decreased lol

That's the point, though. With open carry everyone knows you carry and has time to react. In order to earn the right to carry secretly, you have to show you can do so competently.

Also it is a right. Courts have struck down Illinois' ban on concealed carry. I don't care really since the effects of crime is why I support it. But from an originalist perspective, it is a right

I don't oppose concealed carry. I just oppose not having to get a permit to achieve it, provided said permit is reasonable. IMO having a gun safety course and requiring to show competency is a fair tradeoff for carrying a gun everywhere.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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1/26/2015 8:23:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The thing is that I am not "anti gun" so much as I am "pro competence." If people want to handle guns in situations that may require them to take a human life in self defense, people should be trained in how to do that. The training should be very intense, and should not be easy to pass. It should entail written classes and hands-on training in high intensity situations.

Dumb people think that because they can hit a non-moving or regulated moving target that is non-human in some sort of firing range scenario that they are somehow experts in self defense and that they would be able to effectively use a weapon in that kind of a situation. That is absurd, and those people are the people who I want to keep from having guns because they're overconfident.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/26/2015 8:23:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 8:18:04 PM, YYW wrote:
But there should still be a national baseline of competence that every person who desires to own a gun should have. Extensive training should be that baseline, and the reason to have that training be so extensive (I'm talking about a six month course here, at minimum) is to make it much harder for people who are not "law abiding citizens" to get them.

What about people who need a gun immediately for their own safety?

I also think that if a gang banger tried to go through that kind of process, he might not be a gang-banger anymore. Enough time spent with white people might make him reconsider his criminal inclinations. The knowledge that the people who actually had guns *really* knew how to use them, as well, might make unlicensed criminals think twice before doing stupid sh!t, too.

U w8 mate?