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Worst Dictators

Albatross
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6/25/2010 10:52:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Foreign Policy Magazine recently released a list of the 23 worst tyrants/dictators in the world. Alot of the big names are on there and a few you may have never heard of, what i want to know is your 5 top worst dictators beginning with the worst. for this list they do not have to be alive to be counted, anyone could be used but don't go back much past the 19th century

My list

1. Hitler(obviusly)
2. Kim-Jong-IL
3. Robert Mugabe
4. Joseph Stalin
5. Omar Al-Bashir

The article- http://www.foreignpolicy.com...
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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6/25/2010 11:03:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 10:52:17 AM, Albatross wrote:
Foreign Policy Magazine recently released a list of the 23 worst tyrants/dictators in the world. Alot of the big names are on there and a few you may have never heard of, what i want to know is your 5 top worst dictators beginning with the worst. for this list they do not have to be alive to be counted, anyone could be used but don't go back much past the 19th century

My list

1. Hitler(obviusly)
2. Kim-Jong-IL
3. Robert Mugabe
4. Joseph Stalin
5. Omar Al-Bashir

The article- http://www.foreignpolicy.com...

mind if I ask what criteria you used for your own ranking and how you came up with Kim-Jong-IL and Mugabe ahead of Stalin?
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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6/25/2010 11:08:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:04:33 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I debated this, and I went with Pol Pot.

http://www.debate.org...

I remember seeing that. I would definitely put Pol-Pot in the top 5 if not top 3.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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6/25/2010 11:10:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The reason I chose Pol Pot ahead of Stalin was because the debate was about who was the worse leader. As awful as Stalin was, he did do SOME beneficial things for Russia whereas Pol Pot caused nothing but destruction, and his drastically negative impact on Cambodia has lasted far longer than the damage done to Russia under Stalin. Still, I talked to my opponent some more about it after the debate and concluded that Stalin was probably worse. It's just that he didn 't prove it in the debate itself, and also though Stalin was worse as a dictator he was also better as a leader.
President of DDO
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/25/2010 11:11:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 10:52:17 AM, Albatross wrote:
Foreign Policy Magazine recently released a list of the 23 worst tyrants/dictators in the world. Alot of the big names are on there and a few you may have never heard of, what i want to know is your 5 top worst dictators beginning with the worst. for this list they do not have to be alive to be counted, anyone could be used but don't go back much past the 19th century

My list

1. Hitler(obviusly)
2. Kim-Jong-IL
3. Robert Mugabe
4. Joseph Stalin
5. Omar Al-Bashir

The article- http://www.foreignpolicy.com...

I know that most people hate on Hitler, and have good reason to do so.

However, I prefer Hitler over many other dictators. He was an eloquent orator, statesman, brilliant strategist, and essentially took over an entire nation by himself. Gotta' give him props. Although his principles were misguided and somewhat unreasonable, you have to give him some respect. He also taught us a very valuable lesson.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/25/2010 11:15:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:11:18 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
However, I prefer Hitler over many other dictators.

Fail. Badly.

He was an eloquent orator

Ok.

statesman

No... not at all.

brilliant strategist

Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

and essentially took over an entire nation by himself.

No. He did it through the ballot box. Other revolutionaries have taken over countries in much more spectacular fashion.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/25/2010 11:17:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:15:35 AM, Nags wrote:

brilliant strategist

Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
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Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:20:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:17:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:35 AM, Nags wrote:

brilliant strategist

Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

Valkyrie was an awesome movie
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/25/2010 11:20:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:17:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:35 AM, Nags wrote:

brilliant strategist

Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

There's a difference between strategy and the execution of that strategy. He had fairly decent strategy, but he wasn't as good at executing.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:23:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:20:57 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:17:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:35 AM, Nags wrote:

brilliant strategist

Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

There's a difference between strategy and the execution of that strategy. He had fairly decent strategy, but he wasn't as good at executing.

I disagree his strategy was "move fast before anyone can stop us" but he failed to compensate for the English spirit and then divided his armies to fight on two fronts which goes against all military wisdom and he attacked Russia which I would say after Ireland and America probably have the most how shall we say "pain in the butt to invaders" people in the whole world
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/25/2010 11:25:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million

Actually Mao killed between 50 to 70 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I seriously doubt Stalin killed 100 million. Source?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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6/25/2010 11:27:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Stalin
Hitler
Mao
Pol Pot
Mugabe
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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6/25/2010 11:27:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:10:32 AM, theLwerd wrote:
The reason I chose Pol Pot ahead of Stalin was because the debate was about who was the worse leader.

It all depends on how you define 'worse'. For all intensive purposes, in his first few years in power Hitler got the job done, almost single-handedly pulling Germany out of its downward spiral. We all know what happened next. Stalin was the same. He pulled the Soviet Union out from the rubble of the revolution and turned it into a nationalistic super power. Of course that doesn't normally happen without brutally destroying any and all opposition.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/25/2010 11:27:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:25:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million

Actually Mao killed between 50 to 70 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I seriously doubt Stalin killed 100 million. Source?

"Accordingly, if famine victims are included, a minimum of around 10 million deaths—6 million from famine and 4 million from other causes—are attributable to the regime"

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Mao wins worst dictator hands down.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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6/25/2010 11:27:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

You both are inflating this - Hitler was a successful military strategist in the early stages of war, and many of his strategies did work. However, as the years went on and Germany got pushed back his thinking did get worse to say the least, leading to some of his worst military blunders (the no retreat policy in Stalingrad for example). He wasn't a military genius by any account, but he wasn't a military failure either.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/25/2010 11:28:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:25:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million

Actually Mao killed between 50 to 70 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I seriously doubt Stalin killed 100 million. Source?

Stalin is generally credited for 20 to 60 million deaths.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/25/2010 11:29:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:27:46 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

You both are inflating this - Hitler was a successful military strategist in the early stages of war, and many of his strategies did work. However, as the years went on and Germany got pushed back his thinking did get worse to say the least, leading to some of his worst military blunders (the no retreat policy in Stalingrad for example). He wasn't a military genius by any account, but he wasn't a military failure either.

I was referring to the earlier stages of the war. After having studied WWII, it's pretty clear that Hitler began to fail in strategy towards the end. Thanks for the input, though.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/25/2010 11:29:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:28:21 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:25:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million

Actually Mao killed between 50 to 70 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I seriously doubt Stalin killed 100 million. Source?

Stalin is generally credited for 20 to 60 million deaths.

Lol. Sounds like you're naming one of his accomplishments / successes.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/25/2010 11:31:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:29:11 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:27:46 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Terrible strategist. Germany could have feasibly won WWII if the Generals were leading Germany, rather than Hitler.

Yeah, Hitler was incredibly retarded when it came to strategy. He's lucky he got as far as he did.

You both are inflating this - Hitler was a successful military strategist in the early stages of war, and many of his strategies did work. However, as the years went on and Germany got pushed back his thinking did get worse to say the least, leading to some of his worst military blunders (the no retreat policy in Stalingrad for example). He wasn't a military genius by any account, but he wasn't a military failure either.

I was referring to the earlier stages of the war. After having studied WWII, it's pretty clear that Hitler began to fail in strategy towards the end. Thanks for the input, though.

The only times Hitler ever stepped in and took control of the war from his generals, it was included in the worst mistakes Germany made during the entire war.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/25/2010 11:31:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:27:46 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
You both are inflating this - Hitler was a successful military strategist in the early stages of war, and many of his strategies did work.

He controlled one of the largest militaries in the world. It's not too hard to take over a bunch of small countries with military sizes not relatively comparable. Heck, I could have done that.

However, as the years went on and Germany got pushed back his thinking did get worse to say the least, leading to some of his worst military blunders (the no retreat policy in Stalingrad for example). He wasn't a military genius by any account, but he wasn't a military failure either.

I'd say he was huge failure. He only had to make a few critical military decisions, he failed utterly at all of them.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:34:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:25:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:19:38 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 11:15:55 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Mao killed more of them than all combined.

Actually Mao is only has 20 million innocent deaths under his belt Stalin has over 100 million

Actually Mao killed between 50 to 70 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I seriously doubt Stalin killed 100 million. Source?

Okay the problem with finding out how many people Stalin killed is very debatable because of what you consider to be Stalin killing people also many archive records are sketchy about how many people were killed. Also records of Stalin's kill total do not include
Members of the Red Army killed for alleged "desertation"
Those that died of neglect in gulags
Those that died while being tortured in the custody of the government and KGB
Also some people say that he should not be considered responsible for the Ukraine famine which claimed between 6-11 million lives
In addition there are mass graves that are turning up quite regularly in Russia that show hundreds and even thousands more victims

However estimates of Stalin's kill total range on the low end from 20-30 million and at the high end 70-100 million
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/25/2010 11:35:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hitler was actually very unintelligent. He only rose to power do to his social skills. He had a low IQ and actually flunked an art class. Do you know how hard it is to flunk an art class? He let his generals take care of the war except in a few circumstances where he did step in but it hurt them deeply.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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6/25/2010 11:36:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
With regards Hitler, he had the lessons of Napoleon before him. You can't win a war against both Britain and Russia combined, it's not going to happen.

If he had left the Generals to plan and execute the Russian campaign maybe he could have not Russia, its a pretty big if. But he could not bomb Britain into submission, did not have the troop transports to land sufficient numbers. There have been endless studies and simulations for operation sea lion, they all result in fail.

His achievement was that in a few short years he turn a demilitarised power in a military superpower. But he was up against too much and did not know when to quit.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:37:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The most intelligent person in the German military during WW2 I would argue is Rommel
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/25/2010 11:37:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:35:56 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Hitler was actually very unintelligent. He only rose to power do to his social skills. He had a low IQ and actually flunked an art class. Do you know how hard it is to flunk an art class? He let his generals take care of the war except in a few circumstances where he did step in but it hurt them deeply.

He didn't have very good social skills. He just knew what he had to do in order to fulfill his goals.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/25/2010 11:38:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 11:37:51 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Worst dictator:

The Pope

I win.

How do you figure? and which Pope?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.