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Feminists jump the shark (again)

TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/28/2015 11:43:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM, TN05 wrote:
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.

I only read part of it, but I don't think that is what it is saying.
It sounds like it is saying that what writing/reading does is uses parts of the brain that men are more proficient in, thus, it marginalized woman's roles in society.

It's not saying that it was a horrid invention, but that it aided in women losing their influence, which is probably true. In modern times, women seem to have better memories, so, if this is biological, then women before writing were the keepers of history.

I think the writer of the article is way too biased, but an interesting concept.
I wonder if woman should be offended by what the author of the book is suggesting.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,278
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1/28/2015 5:08:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM, TN05 wrote:
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.

I agree with Khaos that this isn't what they're saying. It's still silly, because there's no demonstration that 'holistic' thinking is better than the 'male' counterpart, and that it should even be brought back in the first place. He just goes off on a bunch of wishy-washy nonsense about balance which isn't supported by anything. I also think that any relationship is blown way out of proportion; the Sibylline Books held immense sway over Roman society, ritual, and religion for hundreds of years, and they were all written by women. If the introduction of the alphabet was so absolutely deleterious to the position of women, why was Roman custom under the sway of female oracles for centuries?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/28/2015 6:11:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 11:43:03 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM, TN05 wrote:
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.

I only read part of it, but I don't think that is what it is saying.

Of course I exaggerated a bit. The article is so nonsensical that I don't think it makes a real difference, though.

It sounds like it is saying that what writing/reading does is uses parts of the brain that men are more proficient in, thus, it marginalized woman's roles in society.

It's not saying that it was a horrid invention, but that it aided in women losing their influence, which is probably true. In modern times, women seem to have better memories, so, if this is biological, then women before writing were the keepers of history.

I think the writer of the article is way too biased, but an interesting concept.
I wonder if woman should be offended by what the author of the book is suggesting.

They should be insulted, yes.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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1/28/2015 6:13:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 5:08:02 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM, TN05 wrote:
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.

I agree with Khaos that this isn't what they're saying. It's still silly, because there's no demonstration that 'holistic' thinking is better than the 'male' counterpart, and that it should even be brought back in the first place.

IMO this comes from the sort of anti-science left that opposes vaccines, industrialization, and modern medicine. This is just the feminist take on that - wanting to go back to the 'good old days' of illiteracy, disease, rampant poverty and warfare. Anything that happened then was probably good (except patriarchy), and anything that happens now is bad. It's the left-wing equivalent to right-wing fundamentalists who want to go back to the 50s, except it is much worse.

He just goes off on a bunch of wishy-washy nonsense about balance which isn't supported by anything. I also think that any relationship is blown way out of proportion; the Sibylline Books held immense sway over Roman society, ritual, and religion for hundreds of years, and they were all written by women. If the introduction of the alphabet was so absolutely deleterious to the position of women, why was Roman custom under the sway of female oracles for centuries?

Using logic against feminism does not work.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,278
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1/28/2015 9:51:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 6:13:28 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 1/28/2015 5:08:02 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/28/2015 11:18:43 AM, TN05 wrote:
If you want a good laugh, read this article:

http://www.brainpickings.org...

It's feminists arguing the alphabet and literacy are horrid inventions designed to reinforce patriarchy. I'm not making this up.

I agree with Khaos that this isn't what they're saying. It's still silly, because there's no demonstration that 'holistic' thinking is better than the 'male' counterpart, and that it should even be brought back in the first place.

IMO this comes from the sort of anti-science left that opposes vaccines, industrialization, and modern medicine. This is just the feminist take on that - wanting to go back to the 'good old days' of illiteracy, disease, rampant poverty and warfare. Anything that happened then was probably good (except patriarchy), and anything that happens now is bad. It's the left-wing equivalent to right-wing fundamentalists who want to go back to the 50s, except it is much worse.

Yeah, whenever someone on the left claims that Republicans are anti-science I bring up three little letters: G-M-O.

He just goes off on a bunch of wishy-washy nonsense about balance which isn't supported by anything. I also think that any relationship is blown way out of proportion; the Sibylline Books held immense sway over Roman society, ritual, and religion for hundreds of years, and they were all written by women. If the introduction of the alphabet was so absolutely deleterious to the position of women, why was Roman custom under the sway of female oracles for centuries?

Using logic against feminism does not work.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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1/28/2015 10:01:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think the article is pretty dumb to define the dichotomy in thought processes it brings up as masculine vs. feminine, but it raises an interesting point in a way. I've been thinking a lot lately about the history of ideas. Why do some ideas survive and others don't? In particular, religion. Why was Christianity so successful at defeating the old faith in the hearts of the European populace? Why is Christianity itself being overtaken by secularism and what is essentially a modern civic religion? Could it be because these ideas conform more to a "masculine" outlook as this article would put it?

Masculine defined as "linear, sequential, reductionist" for....reasons?
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,278
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1/28/2015 11:02:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/28/2015 10:01:32 PM, thett3 wrote:
I think the article is pretty dumb to define the dichotomy in thought processes it brings up as masculine vs. feminine, but it raises an interesting point in a way. I've been thinking a lot lately about the history of ideas. Why do some ideas survive and others don't? In particular, religion. Why was Christianity so successful at defeating the old faith in the hearts of the European populace? Why is Christianity itself being overtaken by secularism and what is essentially a modern civic religion? Could it be because these ideas conform more to a "masculine" outlook as this article would put it?

Masculine defined as "linear, sequential, reductionist" for....reasons?

Here's my take on it:

Europe, by nature of its demographics and geography, needs to be united by some strong, overarching ideology. Originally, this was provided by somewhat pluralistic societies which coexisted within the framework Roman civil institutions, law, and general culture. Pax Romana. When this system of unity broke down, due to a complex interplay of factors, Europe tore itself apart.

Christianity was becoming prominent as the old world order fell apart, and was able to stitch a semblance of European unity from the pieces. It beat out the Roman system because of the idea of conversion: in an era of many warring kings and tribes, conversions made allies of enemies, and formed alliances quickly. The old Roman system wouldn't work in such a volatile environment because Rome had expanded into largely barbarian territories from behind a formidable defense (the Alps). The church was faced with the task of converting, or defending against, both those pagan tribes which had absorbed some aspect of Roman society during their long suzerainty, and the invaders displaced by the Huns to the east; far more formidable enemies.

They eventually succeeded, and it lasted for a long while, but eventually began to fray at the edges, ending in the abortion of a reforming event desperately needed by the Church, the disintegration of Catholic hegemony, the Protestant Reformation, and the firm establishment of the European nation-state. Religious wars tore the continent apart, cementing national sovereignty, and then those lines were quite literally entrenched during the First World War.

The Second World War set the stage for the next battle over which ideology would unite Europe: Soviet Communism versus the Humanism which contained only a lingering touch of its Christian roots. Just as the Church had fought off Viking, Lombard, and Magyar influences, the new Secular Humanism fought of and ostensibly converted the Soviet Communists, granting Europe its new uniting factor.

Christianity is being replaced in the West because it tarnished itself during its age of great schisms. The Church can no longer provide the unity which Europe needs; rather, it acts to exacerbate deep-seated enmities. In my opinion, it will survive on as an international legacy, as Hellenism did after the collapse of Alexander's empire, as Roman culture did after the fall of the Western empire, and as Buddhism has for much of its history. It is now disembodied and, while free of the corrupting touch of state entanglement, is also bereft of the ability to maintain dominance which it once possessed.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -