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Intellectual Property

mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/26/2010 1:20:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Okay, we've had about two threads somewhat discussing intellectual property, so I figured it needed its own discussion.

Personally, I believe that government should protect intellectual property rights as long as those seeking such protection pay for its enforcement, so that the taxpayers aren't taxed over it.

The one industry that I think needs it most is the video game industry. It costs upwards of five million dollars to develop a seventh-generation video game; without intellectual property laws, it becomes impossible for the company that did the work of developing the game to make a profit against the undercutters looking to make a quick buck.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject. 3 Cheers for capitalism.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2010 9:03:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.

How do you profit from something that never exists because there is no incentive to invent it?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/26/2010 9:04:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:03:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.

How do you profit from something that never exists because there is no incentive to invent it?

Because there is incentive to create it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2010 9:09:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:04:57 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:03:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.

How do you profit from something that never exists because there is no incentive to invent it?

Because there is incentive to create it.

What incentive is that?
Note: Net incentive. I.e., it has to overcome the costs.

Why precisely would anyone ever invent a drug for millions of dollars invested when a fellow can come along and charge much less than you (it's essentially impossible for you to compete with them, since they didn't have to invest in inventing it, which is the main cost)?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/26/2010 9:14:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:09:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:04:57 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:03:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.

How do you profit from something that never exists because there is no incentive to invent it?

Because there is incentive to create it.

What incentive is that?
Note: Net incentive. I.e., it has to overcome the costs.

Why precisely would anyone ever invent a drug for millions of dollars invested when a fellow can come along and charge much less than you (it's essentially impossible for you to compete with them, since they didn't have to invest in inventing it, which is the main cost)?

You have a very narrow and outdated vision of human nature.
People create because they want to create.
And if there weren't so many who are poor than we'd have a lot more people focusing on that creating rather than just getting by.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
belle
Posts: 4,113
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6/26/2010 9:18:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:14:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
You have a very narrow and outdated vision of human nature.
People create because they want to create.
And if there weren't so many who are poor than we'd have a lot more people focusing on that creating rather than just getting by.

with certain types of art that would probably make sense (lots of people feel the urge to self expression). i saw an interesting video on the lack of copyrights in the fashion industry recently. but with stuff like pharmaceuticals or new technologies- no way in hell. they cost millions to develop, no one will bother if they can't recoup the costs.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2010 9:31:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:14:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:09:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:04:57 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:03:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 8:57:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:31:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/26/2010 3:00:12 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
The reason people need their intellectual property protected is that they make a living off it (i.e., they make money doing it which allows them to live by authorizing them purchasing power in the economy to meet their basic human needs like food, clothing, and shelter). Without these protections, other profiteers could steal their ideas and exclude them from their own profits, forcing them to have to switch professions (thank you for choosing Mcdonald's, may I take your order please?).

Under our current capitalistic dog-eat-dog system of profiteers competing tooth-and-nail to secure any edge they can in their respective industries, intellectual property owners do need protection in order to make a living (i.e., to live). But if we get rid of the profits, we remove all issues concerning this subject
Yes, we remove all possibility of life if we remove profit. (since life requires that someone produce value, i.e., that someone profit :) )

More people would profit if there were not intellectual property.

How do you profit from something that never exists because there is no incentive to invent it?

Because there is incentive to create it.

What incentive is that?
Note: Net incentive. I.e., it has to overcome the costs.

Why precisely would anyone ever invent a drug for millions of dollars invested when a fellow can come along and charge much less than you (it's essentially impossible for you to compete with them, since they didn't have to invest in inventing it, which is the main cost)?

You have a very narrow and outdated vision of human nature.
I expect you to trash your narrow, outdated, materialistic, probably patented somewhere, computer RIGHT THIS MINUTE. And then throw out your narrow, outdated, materialistic food. And all your other narrow, outdated, materialistic possessions. Everything that you have any property claim to. GET RID OF IT.

People create because they want to create.
Do the above. Then create more. Don't use it. Just get rid of it after creating. Keep creating.

And if there weren't so many who are poor
If greed is so "outdated" then no one will act differently if they were poor. Why should they? They have no material desires silly. They just wanna create for the sake of creating.

Go on. No one's stopping you from never responding to another incentive again.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2010 9:32:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:18:48 PM, belle wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:14:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
You have a very narrow and outdated vision of human nature.
People create because they want to create.
And if there weren't so many who are poor than we'd have a lot more people focusing on that creating rather than just getting by.

with certain types of art that would probably make sense (lots of people feel the urge to self expression). i saw an interesting video on the lack of copyrights in the fashion industry recently.
With fashion, there's a bunch of snobs who look down on "Fake" stuff, enough to keep the market afloat. And **** changes so fast and with so little purpose by the time you copy something its prolly out of style anyway.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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6/26/2010 9:37:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:32:55 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And **** changes so fast and with so little purpose by the time you copy something its prolly out of style anyway.

probably at least partly due to the fact that anyone can copy anything. forces them to innovate or become boring :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/28/2010 5:52:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Intellectual property laws derive from "natural monopoly." An inventor has what he considers to be a great new invention (or other intellectual work). At the time he invents it, no one else knows about it so he has a monopoly. He can choose to either reveal it or to keep it a secret. Intellectual property laws allow he inventor to keep his monopoly for a limited period of time in return for permanently placing it in the public domain. Placing it in the public domain has the additional benefit of potentially inspiring other new inventions doing similar things in a different way.

Some things would still get made by enthusiast amateurs, but not much that is large. A video game may require up 150 man-years of investment. $500,000 is about the low end. There are some free collaborative efforts on that level, but it is uncommon. New drugs require an average of $500 million to develop, and many of them fail.

Government bureaucracies punish failure but do not reward success, which is why few innovations come from government. The one's that do are almost entirely from competitive bidding where private enterprise is taking most of the risk. What great new consumer products have been fostered by socialist governments?
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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6/28/2010 6:36:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/26/2010 9:37:42 PM, belle wrote:
At 6/26/2010 9:32:55 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And **** changes so fast and with so little purpose by the time you copy something its prolly out of style anyway.

probably at least partly due to the fact that anyone can copy anything. forces them to innovate or become boring :P

Nothing to do with intellectual property, belle, but I just clicked the link on your signature.

The website says: "The San Francisco Dyke March is a march for all dykes and all women. Men are welcome to stand and support us from the sidelines."

I would have gone to that rally but it was on Saturday. It's a shame I missed it. By all accounts, 50,000 lesbians were there, many of them with their t1ts out!

http://thedykemarch.org...

On the subject of protecting intellectual property, it is just as important as protecting physical property.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...