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Patriotism

Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/4/2010 4:52:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is pride in ones country because the USA is the most bad A country on the planet even if we did elect a man who couldn't run a lemonade stand and a group of people that are less effective than a truckload of starving chihuahua to lead it
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 4:53:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Being proud and caring about the direction of the country which you live in is no different from being proud and caring about the direction of the groups you're involved, whether its your culture, your community, your family, your local anarchist federation, etc.

You might as well ask what's up with caring about anything whatsoever.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 4:54:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 4:52:10 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
It is pride in ones country because the USA is the most bad A country on the planet even if we did elect a man who couldn't run a lemonade stand and a group of people that are less effective than a truckload of starving chihuahua to lead it

I'd lol if I didn't think this was unnecessarily insulting.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 4:55:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 4:53:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
Being proud and caring about the direction of the country which you live in is no different from being proud and caring about the direction of the groups you're involved, whether its your culture, your community, your family, your local anarchist federation, etc.

You might as well ask what's up with caring about anything whatsoever.

I care about the direction of the country. But I am not proud of where it is.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/4/2010 4:56:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 4:54:14 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 4:52:10 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
It is pride in ones country because the USA is the most bad A country on the planet even if we did elect a man who couldn't run a lemonade stand and a group of people that are less effective than a truckload of starving chihuahua to lead it

I'd lol if I didn't think this was unnecessarily insulting.

I would've said the same thing if McCain got elected or heck I would use this to explain the state of our country for the past couple of years
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 5:02:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 4:55:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I care about the direction of the country. But I am not proud of where it is.

See, that's because you follow the standard idea of "patriotism," meaning that you support your country no matter what, through thick or thin.

Patriotism is more than that. If you care about your country, and if you want to change it for the better and work in order to do that, you're a patriot. Even if you don't like the current direction, so long as you're working towards changing it, and believe in the fundamental positives of the country, you can be considered a patriot.

It of course makes the word subjective and nearly meaningless, but that's better than the bastardized version so-called "American Patriots" use.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/4/2010 5:07:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:06:49 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/4/2010 4:55:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

I care about the direction of the country.

About 5cm a year closer to Russia.

LOL
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 5:08:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Patriotism gives you more of a care and feel of duty for those within a certain country than outside. I cannot relate with that.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 5:09:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:06:49 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/4/2010 4:55:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

I care about the direction of the country.

About 5cm a year closer to Russia.

Hahaha, nice one.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 5:12:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:08:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Patriotism gives you more of a care and feel of duty for those within a certain country than outside. I cannot relate with that.

Sure you can. You're human, right? If you hang out with other people, with your "group," you automatically give preference to them over others no matter what, even if you don't know it.

There's nothing wrong with caring about oneself and those that oneself likes/relates to over those that you don't. Marxist internationalism died out for a reason.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 5:14:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:12:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 5:08:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Patriotism gives you more of a care and feel of duty for those within a certain country than outside. I cannot relate with that.

Sure you can. You're human, right? If you hang out with other people, with your "group," you automatically give preference to them over others no matter what, even if you don't know it.

There's nothing wrong with caring about oneself and those that oneself likes/relates to over those that you don't. Marxist internationalism died out for a reason.

Those I like are not those who are around me.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
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7/4/2010 5:15:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:14:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Those I like are not those who are around me.

So you spend your time around people you hate?
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/4/2010 5:21:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Patriotism gets confused with Nationalism a lot. It surpasses being proud of your country. Patriotism is being so proud in your country, that you support it in any way possible and are willing to serve it. Nationalism is just the devotion to and pride in your country. Just a wee bit different...

http://reluctantoptimist.files.wordpress.com...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 5:24:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:15:24 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 5:14:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Those I like are not those who are around me.

So you spend your time around people you hate?

I don't hate them but yes. I'm moving out of here as soon as possible.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 5:24:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:21:15 PM, annhasle wrote:
Patriotism gets confused with Nationalism a lot. It surpasses being proud of your country. Patriotism is being so proud in your country, that you support it in any way possible and are willing to serve it. Nationalism is just the devotion to and pride in your country. Just a wee bit different...

http://reluctantoptimist.files.wordpress.com...

I disagree that there is any real difference in the terms, except in the context used by folks who don't really know any better.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 5:25:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:24:12 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't hate them but yes. I'm moving out of here as soon as possible.

Lol, that's a little different.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/4/2010 5:38:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:24:42 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 5:21:15 PM, annhasle wrote:
Patriotism gets confused with Nationalism a lot. It surpasses being proud of your country. Patriotism is being so proud in your country, that you support it in any way possible and are willing to serve it. Nationalism is just the devotion to and pride in your country. Just a wee bit different...

http://reluctantoptimist.files.wordpress.com...

I disagree that there is any real difference in the terms, except in the context used by folks who don't really know any better.

A Patriot by definition is someone willing to serve their country. Having nationalistic pride is different. Having pride in your country could just be rooting for them in the World Cup, cheering for them and watching the games. That doesn't mean you'd put your life on the line, and serve that country. Unless you were a patriot! :D

I've always separated the Nationalists and the Patriots. Especially in the USA where you have people that are proud to be American and then you have those who have the Patriot bumper stickers and crew cuts. Along with a scar from Vietnam and a rifle that's been thoroughly used...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Volkov
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7/4/2010 5:40:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:38:24 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've always separated the Nationalists and the Patriots. Especially in the USA where you have people that are proud to be American and then you have those who have the Patriot bumper stickers and crew cuts. Along with a scar from Vietnam and a rifle that's been thoroughly used...

Again - stupid people use it in stupid contexts. I understand doing what you do in order to separate such people, but the definition of "patriotism" itself is little different from "nationalism." It's essentially the same thing, except that guy with the scar from Vietnam doesn't understand that, and really the word "nationalism" conjures up images of Nazis more often than not.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/4/2010 5:52:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:40:59 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 5:38:24 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've always separated the Nationalists and the Patriots. Especially in the USA where you have people that are proud to be American and then you have those who have the Patriot bumper stickers and crew cuts. Along with a scar from Vietnam and a rifle that's been thoroughly used...

Again - stupid people use it in stupid contexts. I understand doing what you do in order to separate such people, but the definition of "patriotism" itself is little different from "nationalism." It's essentially the same thing, except that guy with the scar from Vietnam doesn't understand that, and really the word "nationalism" conjures up images of Nazis more often than not.

Ok, yes Americans like to differentiate between the two because (I think) many people, like the guy with the scar, want to feel like they're the most American so then they call themselves a Patriot.

Nationalism = Nazi? Interesting...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 5:56:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 5:52:16 PM, annhasle wrote:
Nationalism = Nazi? Interesting...

Well, nationalist = words often associated with neo-Nazis.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 4:53:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
Being proud and caring about the direction of the country which you live in is no different from being proud and caring about the direction of the groups you're involved, whether its your culture, your community, your family, your local anarchist federation, etc.

You might as well ask what's up with caring about anything whatsoever.

other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 6:01:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM, belle wrote:
other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...

To you, possibly. Some people are proud of what they're involved in and care about it. Besides, no one said caring about something was dependent upon voluntary relationships.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 6:01:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM, belle wrote:
At 7/4/2010 4:53:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
Being proud and caring about the direction of the country which you live in is no different from being proud and caring about the direction of the groups you're involved, whether its your culture, your community, your family, your local anarchist federation, etc.

You might as well ask what's up with caring about anything whatsoever.

other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...

Well said.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/4/2010 6:06:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:01:50 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM, belle wrote:
other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...

To you, possibly. Some people are proud of what they're involved in and care about it. Besides, no one said caring about something was dependent upon voluntary relationships.

What do they call that sickness when a women falls in love with her hostage-taker?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/4/2010 6:08:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:01:50 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM, belle wrote:
other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...

To you, possibly. Some people are proud of what they're involved in and care about it. Besides, no one said caring about something was dependent upon voluntary relationships.

of course people care about things that effect them whether that effect is voluntary or not. however, pride is not an appropriate accompaniment to caring in all cases. for example, under the conditions detailed above :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
belle
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7/4/2010 6:09:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:06:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/4/2010 6:01:50 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/4/2010 6:00:33 PM, belle wrote:
other groups you generally join voluntarily... why be proud of something you had no part in creating and no choice in joining? it just seems silly...

To you, possibly. Some people are proud of what they're involved in and care about it. Besides, no one said caring about something was dependent upon voluntary relationships.

What do they call that sickness when a women falls in love with her hostage-taker?

stockholm syndrome
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/4/2010 6:09:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
and i'm pretty sure it doesn't apply only to women or have anything to do with romantic love
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/4/2010 6:10:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/4/2010 6:06:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What do they call that sickness when a women falls in love with her hostage-taker?

Stockholm Syndrome, though it's not exactly limited to women. ;)

But, really, you can care about things that were not so voluntarily joined. Family, for instance. You do have the obvious option of getting out of such a relationship, aye. If you don't care about your country, you don't care about your country. But how whats stopping you from caring even if it started as an involuntary relationship?