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The Absurdity of Transgenderism

YYW
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2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.
Tsar of DDO
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/6/2015 2:48:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Image if people started to claim to be transracial, that is be born the wrong race and require race reassignment surgery, or even trans-age, that is born the wrong age. The trans-age would be the easiest. Any one can think they are the wrong age. A 40 year old could have age reassignment surgery to be 12, or maybe an 18 year old could be reassigned to be 21 to meet drinking requirements.

None of these are any more ridiculous than transgender.
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SovereignDream
Posts: 1,119
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2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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2/8/2015 7:46:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P

I got distracted, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.
Tsar of DDO
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 7:47:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 7:46:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P

I got distracted, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

I didn't even read the article haha
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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2/8/2015 7:49:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 7:47:46 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:46:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P

I got distracted, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

I didn't even read the article haha

It's not really worth reading. It's poorly written, poorly reasoned, and more or less reads like it was written by a guy in his underwear in his parent's basement.

Granted, as I type this, I'm in my underwear (though only because I'm ready for bed)... but in my apartment. lol
Tsar of DDO
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 7:53:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 7:49:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:47:46 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:46:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P

I got distracted, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

I didn't even read the article haha

It's not really worth reading. It's poorly written, poorly reasoned, and more or less reads like it was written by a guy in his underwear in his parent's basement.

Granted, as I type this, I'm in my underwear (though only because I'm ready for bed)... but in my apartment. lol

lolol
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/8/2015 8:02:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Where is Oryus? She probably would have some comments about this.

I'd be interested in hearing psychologically-based arguments on either side of the issue. I can understand both perspectives.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 10:10:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?

AH you are arguing genes not hormones, cool.

But yeah fix the links.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/8/2015 10:13:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:10:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?

AH you are arguing genes not hormones, cool.

But yeah fix the links.

Yeah, sorry >.<

Here they are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

http://www.fertstert.org...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 10:24:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:13:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:10:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?

AH you are arguing genes not hormones, cool.

But yeah fix the links.

Yeah, sorry >.<

Here they are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

http://www.fertstert.org...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I would ask why some transsexualism is genetic and other transsexualism is not. I also ask what evolutionary advantage this would have. I would say of those this is the strongest study, methodologically speaking (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...). Now it is interesting because the testosterone hormone is binded due to the genetic mutation.

I read a twin study a while back--it was old and I found it somehow, 1991 or something. The twin study suggested the genetic effect was fairly weak.

Also those studies say genetics is a cause, but I don't see them saying it is the *only* cause. Studies have shown, for example, transsexuals have a different brain pattern. But this refutes genes as the brain actually changes due to repeated behaviors.

I am not saying these studies are wrong. They are really interesting. I think more research should be done if this question is to be answered. But yet again, does this question really matter? I mean I don't see how someone becoming a transsexual mean they should be treated differently, lol. If they want to switch sexes, that's ok I guess...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/8/2015 10:43:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:24:41 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:13:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:10:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?

AH you are arguing genes not hormones, cool.

But yeah fix the links.

Yeah, sorry >.<

Here they are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

http://www.fertstert.org...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I would ask why some transsexualism is genetic and other transsexualism is not.
Epigenetics is complicated (understatement of the century, lol), and there hasn't been much study done. There are probably many different types of transexualism with many different gene interactions. There are probably also cases that are purely psychological.

I also ask what evolutionary advantage this would have.

Eh, common misconception, I think. Things don't need to have an evolutionary advantage to survive. It could be linked to something beneficial, it could be recessive, it could be a commonly recurring mutation, it could just not prove enough of a detriment to be eliminated. I mean, if you look at societies like those on Samoa, the Fa'afafine have been thoroughly integrated into family life as caregivers. In this case the gene provides social utility and could actually be selected for on the social level.

I would say of those this is the strongest study, methodologically speaking (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...). Now it is interesting because the testosterone hormone is binded due to the genetic mutation.

I think that the receptor that is meant to bind testosterone is misshapen due to the mutation. In a normal male, testosterone works like a key fitting into a molecular lock, and makes stuff happen. This mutated gene basically melts some of the molecular tumblers, so the key can't quite fit in the lock.

I read a twin study a while back--it was old and I found it somehow, 1991 or something. The twin study suggested the genetic effect was fairly weak.

Also those studies say genetics is a cause, but I don't see them saying it is the *only* cause. Studies have shown, for example, transsexuals have a different brain pattern. But this refutes genes as the brain actually changes due to repeated behaviors.

The brain is also impacted by hormones, and numerous other things, and the gene comes into play there.

"Longer CAG repeats in the AR gene lead to reduced binding of the AR protein to co-activator, due to its inhibitory interaction with the receptor, resulting in less effective testosterone signalling (19), a mechanism typically involved in masculinization of the brain during early development (1). Female subjects typically lack the gonadal testosterone surge that occurs in male subjects. Consequently, the AR gene is not activated (20). It is possible that a decrease in testosterone levels in the brain during development might result in incomplete masculinization of the brain in male-to-female transsexuals, resulting in a more feminized brain and a female gender identity."

I am not saying these studies are wrong. They are really interesting. I think more research should be done if this question is to be answered.

Yeah, I definitely agree here. I think that it's interesting that such strong links are coming out for transsexualism, which is usually treated as the redheaded stepchild of the LGBT movement (God I hate people adding new letters. I'm sticking with four, dangnabbit).

But yet again, does this question really matter? I mean I don't see how someone becoming a transsexual mean they should be treated differently, lol. If they want to switch sexes, that's ok I guess...

Yeah, that's all I was really driving for, that we don't consider these people as 'just being confused' and treat sexual reassignment as self-mutilation. Those are pretty untenable positions in light of the evidence, and it seemed to be general gist of the article.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/8/2015 10:47:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:43:33 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:24:41 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:13:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:10:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:09:16 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

The links don't work.

May I ask how does this hormone work? I mean how does it influence transgender behavior. Does it attack male organs or something?

AH you are arguing genes not hormones, cool.

But yeah fix the links.

Yeah, sorry >.<

Here they are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

http://www.fertstert.org...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I would ask why some transsexualism is genetic and other transsexualism is not.
Epigenetics is complicated (understatement of the century, lol), and there hasn't been much study done. There are probably many different types of transexualism with many different gene interactions. There are probably also cases that are purely psychological.

I also ask what evolutionary advantage this would have.

Eh, common misconception, I think. Things don't need to have an evolutionary advantage to survive. It could be linked to something beneficial, it could be recessive, it could be a commonly recurring mutation, it could just not prove enough of a detriment to be eliminated. I mean, if you look at societies like those on Samoa, the Fa'afafine have been thoroughly integrated into family life as caregivers. In this case the gene provides social utility and could actually be selected for on the social level.

I would say of those this is the strongest study, methodologically speaking (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...). Now it is interesting because the testosterone hormone is binded due to the genetic mutation.

I think that the receptor that is meant to bind testosterone is misshapen due to the mutation. In a normal male, testosterone works like a key fitting into a molecular lock, and makes stuff happen. This mutated gene basically melts some of the molecular tumblers, so the key can't quite fit in the lock.

I read a twin study a while back--it was old and I found it somehow, 1991 or something. The twin study suggested the genetic effect was fairly weak.

Also those studies say genetics is a cause, but I don't see them saying it is the *only* cause. Studies have shown, for example, transsexuals have a different brain pattern. But this refutes genes as the brain actually changes due to repeated behaviors.

The brain is also impacted by hormones, and numerous other things, and the gene comes into play there.

"Longer CAG repeats in the AR gene lead to reduced binding of the AR protein to co-activator, due to its inhibitory interaction with the receptor, resulting in less effective testosterone signalling (19), a mechanism typically involved in masculinization of the brain during early development (1). Female subjects typically lack the gonadal testosterone surge that occurs in male subjects. Consequently, the AR gene is not activated (20). It is possible that a decrease in testosterone levels in the brain during development might result in incomplete masculinization of the brain in male-to-female transsexuals, resulting in a more feminized brain and a female gender identity."

I am not saying these studies are wrong. They are really interesting. I think more research should be done if this question is to be answered.

Yeah, I definitely agree here. I think that it's interesting that such strong links are coming out for transsexualism, which is usually treated as the redheaded stepchild of the LGBT movement (God I hate people adding new letters. I'm sticking with four, dangnabbit).

But yet again, does this question really matter? I mean I don't see how someone becoming a transsexual mean they should be treated differently, lol. If they want to switch sexes, that's ok I guess...

Yeah, that's all I was really driving for, that we don't consider these people as 'just being confused' and treat sexual reassignment as self-mutilation. Those are pretty untenable positions in light of the evidence, and it seemed to be general gist of the article.

Yeah I will look into this and probably report what I find later. I don't see strong evidence of a gay gene, but this looks promising.
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TN05
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2/9/2015 7:17:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Transgenderism is weird, but what's even weirder are the feminists who say "There are no real gender differences or gender roles" while simultaneously supporting transsexuals. If there is no difference between genders, why would anyone want to change genders, and adopt the activities of their new gender?
KhaosMage
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2/9/2015 8:18:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 8:02:34 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Where is Oryus? She probably would have some comments about this.

I'd be interested in hearing psychologically-based arguments on either side of the issue. I can understand both perspectives.

You might know more about this than I, given your psych background (that is your major, right? psych and education)

Imagine society A, where gender X has X roles and perceptions and gender Y has Y roles and perceptions within their society. Imagine society B where gender X has Y roles and perceptions and gender Y has X roles and perceptions.
Would a transgender from society A, if transplanted to (or grown up in) Society B, still be a transgender?

I can understand the idea of being a woman in a man's body, in the sense that I want female parts. But, transgenders just identify with other genders in terms of societal views, not physical, it seems.
ben2974
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2/9/2015 12:14:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

Basically, treat transgenderism as one would with religion. Laicite. I agree with this.
DarthVitiosus
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2/9/2015 2:33:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 9:35:53 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
There are pretty strong genetic links to transgender which make sense when we look at the proteins for which the associated genes code for. Transgendered individuals have a lot of trouble binding the relevant sex hormones. Seeing as no amount of therapy or medication will change the shape of the molecular machinery which has already been built according to the genetic blueprint provided, I see any corrective therapy from that angle as pretty insane and harmful, akin to bleeding someone in order to treat illness in this day and age. We have a decent idea what the cause of the transgendered feelings are, and we know that there's no way for us to fix that problem. The best way to ease the person's suffering would be cosmetic surgery.

Source:
This study examined a gene which codes for an androgen receptor and had a mutation which resulted in a repeat of the gene. This changed the morphology of the androgen receptor, making it more difficult to testosterone to bind to it. A significant association was observed between this gene and male-to-female transsexualism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

This is another study involving a sex hormone metabolism gene association with female-to-male transsexualism, but not male-to-female transsexualism:
http://www.fertstert.org......

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......

I've also read Doidge's book (The Brain that Changes Itself). It's a fascinating look at cutting edge neuroscience, but it doesn't argue for absolute plasticity. The primary protein structure of androgen receptors are not something which the brain can change; Doidge was referring to the general neurological principle that 'neurons that fire together wire together', and examining its transformation implications when it comes to things like sensory interpretation, motor maps, and phantom limbs.

HEAR! HEAR! A non-political opinion on the matter. A scientific opinion is truly rare on this site since we see too much of these "I am right and you are wrong" enlightened ones on this site. They are usually hit and run types who make statements and run without any defense.

From your understanding, what is the best way to handle transgender people who are unsatisfied with their own persons? My limited understanding is that for one, surgery to "correct" anything should be avoided if it can be. I explained this in a different thread, so I have no interest in explaining unless you want me to. I am more interested in your opinions on the matter and what can be done since a lot of these people tend to be unsatisfied with themselves even after surgery.
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#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
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DarthVitiosus
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2/9/2015 2:43:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 10:47:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:

Yeah I will look into this and probably report what I find later. I don't see strong evidence of a gay gene, but this looks promising.

From a practical view it is very strange to study homosexuality. I am not talking about in the understanding of genetics but rather actually behavior which can be observed. For example, I can point you in the direction in the studies of pornography and how it greatly differs from male to female. Males tend to definitively become aroused at heterosexual porn(male-female) and lesbian porn(female-female) as opposed to homosexual porn(male-male). Where as females tend to become aroused at both heterosexual porn(male-female) and homosexual porn(female-female). It is a very strange phenomena. I can offer you the data sets if you wish because it is always interesting to show the clash between theory and reality.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
16kadams
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2/9/2015 3:50:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 2:43:55 PM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 2/8/2015 10:47:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:

Yeah I will look into this and probably report what I find later. I don't see strong evidence of a gay gene, but this looks promising.

From a practical view it is very strange to study homosexuality. I am not talking about in the understanding of genetics but rather actually behavior which can be observed. For example, I can point you in the direction in the studies of pornography and how it greatly differs from male to female. Males tend to definitively become aroused at heterosexual porn(male-female) and lesbian porn(female-female) as opposed to homosexual porn(male-male). Where as females tend to become aroused at both heterosexual porn(male-female) and homosexual porn(female-female). It is a very strange phenomena. I can offer you the data sets if you wish because it is always interesting to show the clash between theory and reality.

That's weird that girls do that lol
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sadolite
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2/9/2015 4:05:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 7:49:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:47:46 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:46:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/8/2015 7:44:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/6/2015 3:45:56 AM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 2/5/2015 11:05:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

I'm going to tear that apart, but in two days.

Good luck

It's been two days :P

I got distracted, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

I didn't even read the article haha

It's not really worth reading. It's poorly written, poorly reasoned, and more or less reads like it was written by a guy in his underwear in his parent's basement.

Granted, as I type this, I'm in my underwear (though only because I'm ready for bed)... but in my apartment. lol

Man those are some ground breaking rebuttals, you sure ripped that article apart.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
DarthVitiosus
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2/9/2015 5:10:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 4:05:34 PM, sadolite wrote:

Man those are some ground breaking rebuttals, you sure ripped that article apart.

That was not nice. I am not so sure he is a nice person and deserved a nice response based on what he said but we should avoid nonsensical forms of communication. You already know you probably won't change his mind with that kind of response. So what is the point? As mature adult, I thought you would avoid such vain behavior.

I do find a number of your responses to be very accurate so I had to reply because I found this to be beneath you.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Such
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2/9/2015 5:16:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

Well, YYW declined to actually meet the challenge he beset upon himself, but I will be happy to fill that dearth in this thread (existent, but lacking overall nonetheless).

Granted, there were some rebuttals in a general sense from a scientific vantage, and I appreciate that. It's good stuff. It's compelling. It's interesting. But, it doesn't quite approach the article itself. Instead, it rebuts the idea of rejecting trangenderism. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's what the article does. But, approaching the article itself simply takes it a step further.

"Pruned"

So, the first thing I'm going to approach in this article is the use of the word "pruned."

It's just so obnoxious. It is exactly the sort of supercilious, accusatory fluffery amid vitriolic pleonasm one would expect from such a politically conservative and anthropologically misguided article as this. "Pruned" reads as an invective; a silly attempt at accusing an interest group of capitalizing on a tragedy to further their assumed illogical positions and motives.

Here, let me present to you the shameless sneer that is the sentence in which the highlighted statement appears:

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression."

Ugh. That was definitely a copy/paste, as I am no fan of the green- and yellow-tinged bitter taste of bile that retyping that would provoke.

Was it not a sexual minority fighting oppression? He is part of the LGBT community, certainly. He felt rejected by his parents -- broken, even, as perceived by his parents, and that is the only explanation his young mind could infer from the fact that he was sent to therapists to "cure" him of his "maladaptation."

Okay, wait. Let's stop. I'm being way too melodramatic here. Getting carried away with my love for writing and my joy in defense, perhaps I'm getting out of hand. What did our writer say next? How did he qualify his ostensibly outrageous, egregious accusation?

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression. Joshua's parents immediately began to be chided as "repressive" and "bigoted" and even began to receive various threats from LGBT internet crusader-activists."

Oh. Oh, okay, perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps I need to give myself a stern look in the mirror, admonish my proclivity for scandal and relish for irreverence. Yes. Relish.

You see, I don't appreciate those who are irreverent for the sake of irreverence. That's like those who put the same sauce on every dish, or who rely on the same celebrity (or, celebrities in general) to make their blogs/instagrams/tweets interesting, or those who pick on the least common denominator to make their water cooler conversation contribution the most interesting. No. I will not be one of those people. I will not.

So, long story long, I look up what they were referring to. Yes, this was a blog, so yes, their reference was linked. And, it read:

"Tim Tripp, the family minister at Northeast Church of Christ in Cincinnati, told NBC News the funeral had been moved to a private location because "the times and dates had been publicized, and the family's received threats." Tripp wouldn't specify what threats surrounded the funeral, other than to say the family had heard there would be "disruptions." Mourners arriving at the church Friday found a sign on the door announcing the service's postponement. Jeff Hartmann, of Hodapp Funeral Home, said the private service was held there Friday morning. He said Alcorn's body was to be cremated.

The teen's death sparked petitions calling for her gravestone to have the name Leelah, instead of the name Joshua, which she was given at birth. Another petition, which had garnered more than 200,000 supporters by Friday afternoon, called for a ban of conversion therapy, which Alcorn said her parents had sought for her.

A separate candlelight vigil called StandUp4Leelah is scheduled for Friday night in Columbus. More than 6,000 people have RSVP'd to the event on Facebook. Another vigil, organized by Support Marriage Equality in Ohio, will be held at the high school Alcorn attended."

What is this vanilla anticlimax? It might as well have been a drunk mistake made with full awareness that wasn't even ugly nor beautiful. Literally, as average as average gets, statistics 101, all simple arithmetic and no Greek letters. There will be "disruptions." But... but, there weren't even those. The militant LGBT, who were ready to disrupt a funeral could have appeared at the door of opportunity, strapped to the tips of their burqas with everything inappropriate for a victim's wake, and read the orders for reassignment, then attended accordingly. But, no. What did they do? Petition for the poor girl's name and right to be perceived as she wanted.

Her name and perception. Her terrible! How blasphemous!

No.

How supportive.

There are four more sections, and I have little more than 2.5k characters. If there are those that want to read on, let me know. I will gladly post more.

But, bear in mind -- if you are moved, this is only the introduction, and you can rest assured that there is more in store for each section of this misguided, myopic blog.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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2/9/2015 7:05:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 5:16:04 PM, Such wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

Well, YYW declined to actually meet the challenge he beset upon himself, but I will be happy to fill that dearth in this thread (existent, but lacking overall nonetheless).

Granted, there were some rebuttals in a general sense from a scientific vantage, and I appreciate that. It's good stuff. It's compelling. It's interesting. But, it doesn't quite approach the article itself. Instead, it rebuts the idea of rejecting trangenderism. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's what the article does. But, approaching the article itself simply takes it a step further.

"Pruned"

So, the first thing I'm going to approach in this article is the use of the word "pruned."

It's just so obnoxious. It is exactly the sort of supercilious, accusatory fluffery amid vitriolic pleonasm one would expect from such a politically conservative and anthropologically misguided article as this. "Pruned" reads as an invective; a silly attempt at accusing an interest group of capitalizing on a tragedy to further their assumed illogical positions and motives.

Here, let me present to you the shameless sneer that is the sentence in which the highlighted statement appears:

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression."

Ugh. That was definitely a copy/paste, as I am no fan of the green- and yellow-tinged bitter taste of bile that retyping that would provoke.

Was it not a sexual minority fighting oppression? He is part of the LGBT community, certainly. He felt rejected by his parents -- broken, even, as perceived by his parents, and that is the only explanation his young mind could infer from the fact that he was sent to therapists to "cure" him of his "maladaptation."

Okay, wait. Let's stop. I'm being way too melodramatic here. Getting carried away with my love for writing and my joy in defense, perhaps I'm getting out of hand. What did our writer say next? How did he qualify his ostensibly outrageous, egregious accusation?

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression. Joshua's parents immediately began to be chided as "repressive" and "bigoted" and even began to receive various threats from LGBT internet crusader-activists."

Oh. Oh, okay, perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps I need to give myself a stern look in the mirror, admonish my proclivity for scandal and relish for irreverence. Yes. Relish.

You see, I don't appreciate those who are irreverent for the sake of irreverence. That's like those who put the same sauce on every dish, or who rely on the same celebrity (or, celebrities in general) to make their blogs/instagrams/tweets interesting, or those who pick on the least common denominator to make their water cooler conversation contribution the most interesting. No. I will not be one of those people. I will not.

So, long story long, I look up what they were referring to. Yes, this was a blog, so yes, their reference was linked. And, it read:

"Tim Tripp, the family minister at Northeast Church of Christ in Cincinnati, told NBC News the funeral had been moved to a private location because "the times and dates had been publicized, and the family's received threats." Tripp wouldn't specify what threats surrounded the funeral, other than to say the family had heard there would be "disruptions." Mourners arriving at the church Friday found a sign on the door announcing the service's postponement. Jeff Hartmann, of Hodapp Funeral Home, said the private service was held there Friday morning. He said Alcorn's body was to be cremated.

The teen's death sparked petitions calling for her gravestone to have the name Leelah, instead of the name Joshua, which she was given at birth. Another petition, which had garnered more than 200,000 supporters by Friday afternoon, called for a ban of conversion therapy, which Alcorn said her parents had sought for her.

A separate candlelight vigil called StandUp4Leelah is scheduled for Friday night in Columbus. More than 6,000 people have RSVP'd to the event on Facebook. Another vigil, organized by Support Marriage Equality in Ohio, will be held at the high school Alcorn attended."

What is this vanilla anticlimax? It might as well have been a drunk mistake made with full awareness that wasn't even ugly nor beautiful. Literally, as average as average gets, statistics 101, all simple arithmetic and no Greek letters. There will be "disruptions." But... but, there weren't even those. The militant LGBT, who were ready to disrupt a funeral could have appeared at the door of opportunity, strapped to the tips of their burqas with everything inappropriate for a victim's wake, and read the orders for reassignment, then attended accordingly. But, no. What did they do? Petition for the poor girl's name and right to be perceived as she wanted.

Her name and perception. Her terrible! How blasphemous!

No.

How supportive.

There are four more sections, and I have little more than 2.5k characters. If there are those that want to read on, let me know. I will gladly post more.

But, bear in mind -- if you are moved, this is only the introduction, and you can rest assured that there is more in store for each section of this misguided, myopic blog.

Wait, what were your arguments here?
YYW
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2/9/2015 7:23:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 5:16:04 PM, Such wrote:
At 2/5/2015 10:46:31 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
Hello everyone. Check out the following critique of transgenderism and so-called "gender reassignment surgery":

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com...

Well, YYW declined to actually meet the challenge he beset upon himself, but I will be happy to fill that dearth in this thread (existent, but lacking overall nonetheless).

Yeah.... sorry about that. I'm really busy lately, and the benefit of tearing SD's dumb blog post apart didn't justify the costs for me. But, I'm glad to see you've taken it up ;)

Granted, there were some rebuttals in a general sense from a scientific vantage, and I appreciate that. It's good stuff. It's compelling. It's interesting. But, it doesn't quite approach the article itself. Instead, it rebuts the idea of rejecting trangenderism. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's what the article does. But, approaching the article itself simply takes it a step further.

"Pruned"

So, the first thing I'm going to approach in this article is the use of the word "pruned."

It's just so obnoxious. It is exactly the sort of supercilious, accusatory fluffery amid vitriolic pleonasm one would expect from such a politically conservative and anthropologically misguided article as this. "Pruned" reads as an invective; a silly attempt at accusing an interest group of capitalizing on a tragedy to further their assumed illogical positions and motives.

Here, let me present to you the shameless sneer that is the sentence in which the highlighted statement appears:

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression."

Ugh. That was definitely a copy/paste, as I am no fan of the green- and yellow-tinged bitter taste of bile that retyping that would provoke.

Was it not a sexual minority fighting oppression? He is part of the LGBT community, certainly. He felt rejected by his parents -- broken, even, as perceived by his parents, and that is the only explanation his young mind could infer from the fact that he was sent to therapists to "cure" him of his "maladaptation."

Okay, wait. Let's stop. I'm being way too melodramatic here. Getting carried away with my love for writing and my joy in defense, perhaps I'm getting out of hand. What did our writer say next? How did he qualify his ostensibly outrageous, egregious accusation?

"No sooner had Joshua"s heart stopped beating than the story of his suicide was seized by LGBT activists and pruned to advance a familiar narrative of a sexual minority fighting cultural oppression. Joshua's parents immediately began to be chided as "repressive" and "bigoted" and even began to receive various threats from LGBT internet crusader-activists."

Oh. Oh, okay, perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps I need to give myself a stern look in the mirror, admonish my proclivity for scandal and relish for irreverence. Yes. Relish.

You see, I don't appreciate those who are irreverent for the sake of irreverence. That's like those who put the same sauce on every dish, or who rely on the same celebrity (or, celebrities in general) to make their blogs/instagrams/tweets interesting, or those who pick on the least common denominator to make their water cooler conversation contribution the most interesting. No. I will not be one of those people. I will not.

So, long story long, I look up what they were referring to. Yes, this was a blog, so yes, their reference was linked. And, it read:

"Tim Tripp, the family minister at Northeast Church of Christ in Cincinnati, told NBC News the funeral had been moved to a private location because "the times and dates had been publicized, and the family's received threats." Tripp wouldn't specify what threats surrounded the funeral, other than to say the family had heard there would be "disruptions." Mourners arriving at the church Friday found a sign on the door announcing the service's postponement. Jeff Hartmann, of Hodapp Funeral Home, said the private service was held there Friday morning. He said Alcorn's body was to be cremated.

The teen's death sparked petitions calling for her gravestone to have the name Leelah, instead of the name Joshua, which she was given at birth. Another petition, which had garnered more than 200,000 supporters by Friday afternoon, called for a ban of conversion therapy, which Alcorn said her parents had sought for her.

A separate candlelight vigil called StandUp4Leelah is scheduled for Friday night in Columbus. More than 6,000 people have RSVP'd to the event on Facebook. Another vigil, organized by Support Marriage Equality in Ohio, will be held at the high school Alcorn attended."

What is this vanilla anticlimax? It might as well have been a drunk mistake made with full awareness that wasn't even ugly nor beautiful. Literally, as average as average gets, statistics 101, all simple arithmetic and no Greek letters. There will be "disruptions." But... but, there weren't even those. The militant LGBT, who were ready to disrupt a funeral could have appeared at the door of opportunity, strapped to the tips of their burqas with everything inappropriate for a victim's wake, and read the orders for reassignment, then attended accordingly. But, no. What did they do? Petition for the poor girl's name and right to be perceived as she wanted.

Her name and perception. Her terrible! How blasphemous!

No.

How supportive.

There are four more sections, and I have little more than 2.5k characters. If there are those that want to read on, let me know. I will gladly post more.

But, bear in mind -- if you are moved, this is only the introduction, and you can rest assured that there is more in store for each section of this misguided, myopic blog.
Tsar of DDO
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/9/2015 8:28:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:18:57 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/8/2015 8:02:34 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Where is Oryus? She probably would have some comments about this.

I'd be interested in hearing psychologically-based arguments on either side of the issue. I can understand both perspectives.

You might know more about this than I, given your psych background (that is your major, right? psych and education)

Imagine society A, where gender X has X roles and perceptions and gender Y has Y roles and perceptions within their society. Imagine society B where gender X has Y roles and perceptions and gender Y has X roles and perceptions.
Would a transgender from society A, if transplanted to (or grown up in) Society B, still be a transgender?

I can understand the idea of being a woman in a man's body, in the sense that I want female parts. But, transgenders just identify with other genders in terms of societal views, not physical, it seems.

Yeah, psych and ed.

I see what you're saying, though there is always the issue of immediate physical identification. Social norms and gender expectations are one thing, but looking like the sex with which you identify is another.
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