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Abortion

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/9/2010 7:49:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am in my iPhone so forgive me for any mistakes.

I was studying the Constitution and have a dumb proposition. I know that the 5th amendment pertains to rights in criminal cases but is there a case in the amendment to abolish abortion?

Again I am on my iPhone so I ask that you look it up and you will know what part I am talking about when you see it.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/9/2010 7:52:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

The crux of the abortion argument goes back to whether or not a foetus is a person.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/9/2010 7:52:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/9/2010 7:53:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 7:52:43 AM, comoncents wrote:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]

The second word is the whole argument brah.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/9/2010 7:55:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 7:52:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

The crux of the abortion argument goes back to whether or not a foetus is a person.

I know but does this even apply. The word "deprived" is interesting and seems to stick out to me.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/9/2010 7:57:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 7:55:08 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/9/2010 7:52:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

The crux of the abortion argument goes back to whether or not a foetus is a person.

I know but does this even apply. The word "deprived" is interesting and seems to stick out to me.

If you replace person with trees, does the word deprived appeal to your emotion to save seeds?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/9/2010 8:00:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 7:57:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 7/9/2010 7:55:08 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/9/2010 7:52:30 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

The crux of the abortion argument goes back to whether or not a foetus is a person.

I know but does this even apply. The word "deprived" is interesting and seems to stick out to me.

If you replace person with trees, does the word deprived appeal to your emotion to save seeds?

Wow. Let me think on that and I'll get back to you.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/9/2010 8:01:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 8:00:10 AM, comoncents wrote:
Wow. Let me think on that and I'll get back to you.

I have a strange feeling this is sarcasm.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/9/2010 8:05:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 8:01:09 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 7/9/2010 8:00:10 AM, comoncents wrote:
Wow. Let me think on that and I'll get back to you.

I have a strange feeling this is sarcasm.

It's not. I am inclined to say, "yes I would want to save the seeds". But upon further pondering I will really have to think about it and get back to you.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/9/2010 8:06:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 8:05:20 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/9/2010 8:01:09 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 7/9/2010 8:00:10 AM, comoncents wrote:
Wow. Let me think on that and I'll get back to you.

I have a strange feeling this is sarcasm.

It's not. I am inclined to say, "yes I would want to save the seeds". But upon further pondering I will really have to think about it and get back to you.

Cool.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
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7/12/2010 4:24:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Although abortion is a hot issue everywhere in Europe we do take a more relaxed view about it.

For one thing many of us see abortion as a somewhat unpleasant form of birth control, for another we believe that it is the absolute right for a woman to decide to terminate a pregnancy if that is what she wants and that no one has the right to stop her doing so.

What's more we also take a different view where mutants are involved. Increasingly the Groningen Protocol is applied where the severely deformed are involved and termination after delivery is seen as the least worst option.

Arguing that a foetus is a baby is not seen as being sustainable by most of us, we maintain that while a foetus is a potential baby until it is capable of independent survival with only the normal nurturing a neonatal would expect it is only a potential baby and that a baby is only a potential human when Groningen is involved.

Are we right? Most of think so, but then from my experience most of us who see television programs showing what can only be described as monsters that have been brought to adulthood are horrified. People with two heads on one body, people hideously joined for the whole of their lives, and feel that just because medical science is able to do some things is not a good reason for it to do so.

Abortion is not a nice thing to contemplate, worse yet to experience, and horrible for those who carry it out but what must not be forgotten is how much worse it would be in most cases if it were not performed.

And if those parents who do insist of courageous medical intervention for their hideously deformed offspring should not put their feelings second behind what it is going to be like for the thing it is they are demanding should be supported when nature is trying to correct her mistake.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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7/13/2010 6:02:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The problem with basing the judgment off of when it can survive with "minimal" post natal nurturing is that technology is always increasing and a day could come where we can grow humans outside of the womb. In this case, a fetus would gain full personal rights as soon as the sperm met the egg. Could you imagine how stupid this would be, and how much women's rights would be set back if this were allowed to happen?

If something is complex and intricate enough to be a person, then it is a person. Basing your decision about humanity on our technological ability to support it is improper, and only a convenient thing to do in the short time between when technology grows to the point where abortions are easily attainable, and before technology grows to the point of growing feti outside the womb. There is reason to believe that this will be a very short time period, in fact, as certain branches of biology (i.e., genetics) are growing at much faster than even the venerated computer technology field (1.5% vs. 10% per year).

I haven't seen Kleptin around in a grip... this is usually his position on abortion.
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