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Fines for not voting in elections in England

Adam_Higgins
Posts: 1
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2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
CJKAllstar
Posts: 408
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2/22/2015 8:16:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Terrible idea. We'd vote even more ignorantly, on whim, for people who aren't going to represent our interests and it does nothing to make the electorate more politically involved when most of the reasons the people don't vote is because they dislike politics and our leaders. The fact that people don't vote shows a problem from both sides, one that can only be seen based on the voting patterns.
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/22/2015 3:04:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

HI Adam,

Australia has a mandatory voting system in all federal and jurisdictional elections. A key defence of this system is that nonparticipation in voting is not spread evenly through society and the economy: there is normally higher nonparticipation in the young, the poor and ethnic minorities. The argument is that enforcing participation incentivises interest and therefore helps ensure equitable representation of social interests, and in Australia I think that is likely true. Just as taxes and support of nation against external threat are a mandatory price of citizenship, participation in democratic processes can be thought of as a light but critical civic burden, and I think that's a defensible position for anyone who upholds democracy at all.

However, interest is not education, and a quality democratic process (by which I mean, winners who accountably reflect the interests and needs of the people who voted for them) requires interest, education, civic participation, meaningful public debate, sensible and accountable electoral funding, and public accountability for policy. So if anything collapses, the democratic fabric is weakened.

At the moment, I think Australians have cause to be more concerned about the quality of public debate, the murkiness in electoral funding and accountability for policy than participation. Presently, many feel we risk becoming a democracy where everyone participates, yet the outcome only ever serves a small number of cashed-up corporate interests.

I hope that may be useful.
MyDinosaurHands
Posts: 203
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2/22/2015 4:41:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

Jon Stewart did a segment about Brazil, where they make voting mandatory. There's a large segment of the population that, as a result of being forced into doing something they don't want to be, perform their duty as terribly as possible. This usually takes the form of joke candidates with purposely awful ads. These joke candidates receive double digits of the vote sometimes.

I don't know if Brazil is unique, but it seems like it wouldn't be. People don't like being forced into doing something, especially when the implication is that "you're a bad/lazy person if you don't do this, so we're making you do it."

I would think the solution would be big activist campaigns to get the people re-interested in their governance. You might also want to throw in some laws that mix things up in government a little more (what those might be, idk).
Guess what I used to type this..

Careful! Don't laugh too hard.
MyDinosaurHands
Posts: 203
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2/22/2015 4:46:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 3:04:35 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

HI Adam,

Australia has a mandatory voting system in all federal and jurisdictional elections. A key defence of this system is that nonparticipation in voting is not spread evenly through society and the economy: there is normally higher nonparticipation in the young, the poor and ethnic minorities. The argument is that enforcing participation incentivises interest and therefore helps ensure equitable representation of social interests, and in Australia I think that is likely true. Just as taxes and support of nation against external threat are a mandatory price of citizenship, participation in democratic processes can be thought of as a light but critical civic burden, and I think that's a defensible position for anyone who upholds democracy at all.

However, interest is not education, and a quality democratic process (by which I mean, winners who accountably reflect the interests and needs of the people who voted for them) requires interest, education, civic participation, meaningful public debate, sensible and accountable electoral funding, and public accountability for policy. So if anything collapses, the democratic fabric is weakened.

At the moment, I think Australians have cause to be more concerned about the quality of public debate, the murkiness in electoral funding and accountability for policy than participation. Presently, many feel we risk becoming a democracy where everyone participates, yet the outcome only ever serves a small number of cashed-up corporate interests.

I hope that may be useful.

I feel like this has some merit. It makes sense that people who aren't voting have some idea of what they want, and if they are forced to vote, these vague ideas might translate into something helpful to them. However, I could also see a populist kind of candidate make all sorts of nice sounding promises getting into office, and then not doing much useful.
Guess what I used to type this..

Careful! Don't laugh too hard.
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/22/2015 5:04:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Absolutely not in the current system. Probably under proportional representation.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England?

Just cos a load of people do it doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/22/2015 6:28:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.

Poor whites, and Latinos (also white) do not matter only poor blacks. Asians are not poor very long thus should not be protected.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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2/22/2015 6:31:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 6:28:44 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.

Poor whites, and Latinos (also white) do not matter only poor blacks. Asians are not poor very long thus should not be protected.

This seems like a double standard. Instead of saying it is racist to require voting, you should say it is discriminatory against people in poor economic situations- race does not matter.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/22/2015 6:35:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 6:31:40 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:28:44 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.

Poor whites, and Latinos (also white) do not matter only poor blacks. Asians are not poor very long thus should not be protected.

This seems like a double standard. Instead of saying it is racist to require voting, you should say it is discriminatory against people in poor economic situations- race does not matter.

It is a double standard that American liberals use to further their position everyday.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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2/22/2015 6:37:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 6:35:46 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:31:40 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:28:44 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.

Poor whites, and Latinos (also white) do not matter only poor blacks. Asians are not poor very long thus should not be protected.

This seems like a double standard. Instead of saying it is racist to require voting, you should say it is discriminatory against people in poor economic situations- race does not matter.

It is a double standard that American liberals use to further their position everyday.

So it is not racist. If anything, it is discriminatory against the poor. You can find poor people of any race/ethnicity, and they will be affected by the voting requirement.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/22/2015 7:02:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 6:37:49 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:35:46 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:31:40 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 6:28:44 PM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 5:31:58 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:37:25 AM, Chang29 wrote:
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

That would be racist to require voting, some poor blacks do not have identification.

Same could be said about poor white people, poor Latinos, and poor Asians.

Poor whites, and Latinos (also white) do not matter only poor blacks. Asians are not poor very long thus should not be protected.

This seems like a double standard. Instead of saying it is racist to require voting, you should say it is discriminatory against people in poor economic situations- race does not matter.

It is a double standard that American liberals use to further their position everyday.

So it is not racist. If anything, it is discriminatory against the poor. You can find poor people of any race/ethnicity, and they will be affected by the voting requirement.

Thinking about mandatory voting, conservatives should adopt this idea. It takes away the liberal racist rants, yet forces voter verification. If Obamacare verification and tax payment status were included liberals might even should a law like this. The libertarians would be headed for the borders, but that would greatly help both conservatives and liberals.
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/22/2015 7:07:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:16:22 AM, Adam_Higgins wrote:
Hello all,

For a feature I am currently writing, I need to gather opinions on whether people should be fined for not voting in elections/referendums in England.

Other countries already adopt mandatory voting systems so should we follow suit in England? I am somewhere on the fence I must say.

Any of your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.

The last thing that the world needs is more idiots voting.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -