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What happened to the American dream?

Greyparrot
Posts: 14,284
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2/22/2015 11:14:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The American Dream is heavily regulated.

Now, go file your opportunity forms in triplicate, and we will get back to you in a few months.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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2/23/2015 8:50:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Depends on where you are in rags....
Tsar of DDO
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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2/23/2015 8:53:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Bill Gates.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/23/2015 9:32:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:53:32 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Bill Gates.

I hear that he wore a lot of rags at his exclusive prep school. His bank executive grandfather and lawyer father must have stitched them together with such loving care.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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2/23/2015 9:46:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 10:46:27 AM, YYW wrote:


Yes, let European socialist Bernie Sanders explain why America sucks. I'm sure his suggestions won't be 'be more like Europe'.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/23/2015 9:53:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:32:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:53:32 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Bill Gates.

I hear that he wore a lot of rags at his exclusive prep school. His bank executive grandfather and lawyer father must have stitched them together with such loving care.

http://img.pandawhale.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/23/2015 9:57:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Of course it is "possible." It's possible in China too, just a little more unlikely. The question isn't if it is possible but how possible, or how realistic is it. The "do it all, 100% by yourself" is not very common at all. The people that drop out of high school to go start a company are very rarely successful. Most of them end up being the homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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2/23/2015 10:05:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Most people just aren't cut out for the high paying jobs. Simply because of how much money it takes to make money now. Then there's also the low incentive to start a family for younger people.

My advice is to get a secured government job and not even think about marriage.
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/23/2015 10:08:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that a lot of this is pandering. I see the American idea of retirement in particular as incredibly destructive: head to Florida, spend all your money on a resort-like nursing home, and leave some cabinets to your children. If not that, whatever you can afford: just spend it all because you can't take it with you. Any middle class is built generationally, by investing in one's children and grandchildren. It is, in a sense, dynastic, and the next generation is expected to care for the last in return. Wealth builds, opportunities increase, and the family rises from poverty into the middle class. The thing is that the American dream, in this dimension, has never really been about oneself until recently; it has been about one's family. It didn't include independent retirement, but the success of the next generation, cultural continuity, and the creation of something worth preserving. Yet Sanders pretends that this is not only sustainable, but that one is entitled to it!

The middles class is pretty much eating itself, and the upper classes are selling them the fork. It's a cultural problem that doesn't have a political solution.

Another dimension of the American Dream is the focus on the horizon, the desire to create. I think that The Great Gatsby tackles that question beautifully: that is behind us now. The frontier is settled, and we are restless to find a new one which exists only in our past. Our society is transitioning, and there's a sense of poignant longing for the open sky of ages past, the fearless explorer, the ripe domain. But this is futile, if romantically appealing to the point of being intoxicating.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/23/2015 10:08:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 10:05:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Most people just aren't cut out for the high paying jobs. Simply because of how much money it takes to make money now. Then there's also the low incentive to start a family for younger people.

My advice is to get a secured government job and not even think about marriage.

What kind of terrible logic is that? Find someone that hates the notion of a family or the belief in love, and marry them for the equal tax benefits.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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2/23/2015 10:14:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 10:08:26 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I think that a lot of this is pandering. I see the American idea of retirement in particular as incredibly destructive: head to Florida, spend all your money on a resort-like nursing home, and leave some cabinets to your children. If not that, whatever you can afford: just spend it all because you can't take it with you. Any middle class is built generationally, by investing in one's children and grandchildren. It is, in a sense, dynastic, and the next generation is expected to care for the last in return. Wealth builds, opportunities increase, and the family rises from poverty into the middle class. The thing is that the American dream, in this dimension, has never really been about oneself until recently; it has been about one's family. It didn't include independent retirement, but the success of the next generation, cultural continuity, and the creation of something worth preserving. Yet Sanders pretends that this is not only sustainable, but that one is entitled to it!

I'm confused...I thought you supported a pretty hefty estate tax. Only for large estates?

I agree wholeheartedly with this, btw

The middles class is pretty much eating itself, and the upper classes are selling them the fork. It's a cultural problem that doesn't have a political solution.

Another dimension of the American Dream is the focus on the horizon, the desire to create. I think that The Great Gatsby tackles that question beautifully: that is behind us now. The frontier is settled, and we are restless to find a new one which exists only in our past. Our society is transitioning, and there's a sense of poignant longing for the open sky of ages past, the fearless explorer, the ripe domain. But this is futile, if romantically appealing to the point of being intoxicating.
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/23/2015 10:17:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 10:14:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:08:26 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I think that a lot of this is pandering. I see the American idea of retirement in particular as incredibly destructive: head to Florida, spend all your money on a resort-like nursing home, and leave some cabinets to your children. If not that, whatever you can afford: just spend it all because you can't take it with you. Any middle class is built generationally, by investing in one's children and grandchildren. It is, in a sense, dynastic, and the next generation is expected to care for the last in return. Wealth builds, opportunities increase, and the family rises from poverty into the middle class. The thing is that the American dream, in this dimension, has never really been about oneself until recently; it has been about one's family. It didn't include independent retirement, but the success of the next generation, cultural continuity, and the creation of something worth preserving. Yet Sanders pretends that this is not only sustainable, but that one is entitled to it!

I'm confused...I thought you supported a pretty hefty estate tax. Only for large estates?

I agree wholeheartedly with this, btw

Percentage based. It's redistributed, but wealth still compiles despite that. Plus, a lot of these investments take place during life. Things like subsidizing education, loaning money for the first house/car, or just giving a person some land to build on.

The middles class is pretty much eating itself, and the upper classes are selling them the fork. It's a cultural problem that doesn't have a political solution.

Another dimension of the American Dream is the focus on the horizon, the desire to create. I think that The Great Gatsby tackles that question beautifully: that is behind us now. The frontier is settled, and we are restless to find a new one which exists only in our past. Our society is transitioning, and there's a sense of poignant longing for the open sky of ages past, the fearless explorer, the ripe domain. But this is futile, if romantically appealing to the point of being intoxicating.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/24/2015 8:17:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:50:00 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:28:36 PM, Praesentya wrote:
I think this is an important question, so I'm bumping it.

Does anyone believe rags to riches is still a possibility in America?

Depends on where you are in rags....

Also depends on what your riches are defined as.
I see no reason why people can't achieve moderate wealth.
It largely boils down to personal decisions people make, especially their level of consumerism.
My work here is, finally, done.