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Conservatives Are Bad, But....

ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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2/23/2015 2:04:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...

If the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest funerals, no matter the distance, then that is not a prohibition of free speech. Now if they were arrested and charged for doing whatever it is that they do, then it would be considered a violation of free speech but that is not the case.

And what do you mean by "certain people get benefits for certain things" and how is that a reflection of liberal views?
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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2/23/2015 2:07:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also I found that video to be quite amusing. But if that is what you think liberals are like, then you need to educate yourself on what liberals actually stand for.
Chang29
Posts: 732
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2/23/2015 7:18:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is little difference between conservatives and liberals, both want government to impose their form of social values on the rest of society. Conservatives and liberals are just different sides of the same plate, one side broccoli, the other cauliflower, there is no good option. American political debate is between the views of Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush which is about the same. Both believe that government should force their set of values on the rest of us, both believe in crony capitalism, both believe in government economic intervention, both believe in progressive taxation, both believe in drug prohibition, both believe in special benefits for the married, and the list goes on and on.

When government has a boot to your throat does it matter if it is a left or right boot?
A free market anti-capitalist

If it can be de-centralized, it will be de-centralized.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/23/2015 8:51:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:04:04 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...

If the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest funerals, no matter the distance, then that is not a prohibition of free speech. Now if they were arrested and charged for doing whatever it is that they do, then it would be considered a violation of free speech but that is not the case.

And what do you mean by "certain people get benefits for certain things" and how is that a reflection of liberal views?

Why not allow them to protest at the funerals? If they say something offensive, I think it's fair they receive their punishment from the people who take offense.

For example, if you are unable to do something, the government pays you money. Even when your a young adult. I find this to be the idea of supporting laziness. Example, a surfer guy who wanted to start his own band appeared on Hannity because he was making his living off food stamps and tax payer money that he received from the government. Hannity even said "If I were to offer you a job, would you take it?" The guy just flat out said no. If he was really looking for a way to be independent, he wouldn't have to keep relying on the government. Now if there's a homeless shelter that'll take him in, i'm ok with that. But why does the government need to pay people for doing nothing? If he doesn't like the fact he has no money, live with a friend or your parents. This already breaks the equality barrier since people with no jobs can make money. So nobody has to work in America. Also, you have certain places that refuse to serve customers for reasons. Like cake shops refuse to make gay wedding cakes, there are cake shops who refuse to make a Nazi, KKK, or whatever offensive cakes. As an employee, you need to please your fellow customer because it's business. Your politics, personal preferences and religion need to stay at home or else your gonna run your business into the ground. So not only is this the damage of conservatives, but also the damage from the liberals.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/23/2015 8:52:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:07:25 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
Also I found that video to be quite amusing. But if that is what you think liberals are like, then you need to educate yourself on what liberals actually stand for.

Then educate me right now on what you think of certain political issues. My dad says I sound like liberal, but i'm an anarchist who wishes the government would just pull the plug on itself since it's dying already.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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2/23/2015 8:53:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:51:02 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:04:04 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...

If the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest funerals, no matter the distance, then that is not a prohibition of free speech. Now if they were arrested and charged for doing whatever it is that they do, then it would be considered a violation of free speech but that is not the case.

And what do you mean by "certain people get benefits for certain things" and how is that a reflection of liberal views?

Why not allow them to protest at the funerals? If they say something offensive, I think it's fair they receive their punishment from the people who take offense.

For example, if you are unable to do something, the government pays you money. Even when your a young adult. I find this to be the idea of supporting laziness. Example, a surfer guy who wanted to start his own band appeared on Hannity because he was making his living off food stamps and tax payer money that he received from the government. Hannity even said "If I were to offer you a job, would you take it?" The guy just flat out said no. If he was really looking for a way to be independent, he wouldn't have to keep relying on the government. Now if there's a homeless shelter that'll take him in, i'm ok with that. But why does the government need to pay people for doing nothing? If he doesn't like the fact he has no money, live with a friend or your parents. This already breaks the equality barrier since people with no jobs can make money. So nobody has to work in America. Also, you have certain places that refuse to serve customers for reasons. Like cake shops refuse to make gay wedding cakes, there are cake shops who refuse to make a Nazi, KKK, or whatever offensive cakes. As an employee, you need to please your fellow customer because it's business. Your politics, personal preferences and religion need to stay at home or else your gonna run your business into the ground. So not only is this the damage of conservatives, but also the damage from the liberals.

So because a tiny minority of people would rather be lazy, live off welfare, and refuse to work, the government should discontinue giving all welfare to the people who actually need it? Makes sense.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/23/2015 8:56:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:53:47 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:51:02 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:04:04 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...

If the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest funerals, no matter the distance, then that is not a prohibition of free speech. Now if they were arrested and charged for doing whatever it is that they do, then it would be considered a violation of free speech but that is not the case.

And what do you mean by "certain people get benefits for certain things" and how is that a reflection of liberal views?

Why not allow them to protest at the funerals? If they say something offensive, I think it's fair they receive their punishment from the people who take offense.

For example, if you are unable to do something, the government pays you money. Even when your a young adult. I find this to be the idea of supporting laziness. Example, a surfer guy who wanted to start his own band appeared on Hannity because he was making his living off food stamps and tax payer money that he received from the government. Hannity even said "If I were to offer you a job, would you take it?" The guy just flat out said no. If he was really looking for a way to be independent, he wouldn't have to keep relying on the government. Now if there's a homeless shelter that'll take him in, i'm ok with that. But why does the government need to pay people for doing nothing? If he doesn't like the fact he has no money, live with a friend or your parents. This already breaks the equality barrier since people with no jobs can make money. So nobody has to work in America. Also, you have certain places that refuse to serve customers for reasons. Like cake shops refuse to make gay wedding cakes, there are cake shops who refuse to make a Nazi, KKK, or whatever offensive cakes. As an employee, you need to please your fellow customer because it's business. Your politics, personal preferences and religion need to stay at home or else your gonna run your business into the ground. So not only is this the damage of conservatives, but also the damage from the liberals.

So because a tiny minority of people would rather be lazy, live off welfare, and refuse to work, the government should discontinue giving all welfare to the people who actually need it? Makes sense.

I think that they need to give welfare to old people who at least want to live on their own. But I'm stating liberalism sounds like a modern day contradiction. I'm an anarchist so my views are different.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/23/2015 9:11:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:04:04 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:04:45 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
The Liberals haven't been so good. The idea of Liberalism is equality and freedom. However, certain freedoms are limited and whenever somebody practices their freedom, people get upset and limit the freedoms. Examples are Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals from far away due to certain laws prohibiting free speech. Another example is that certain people get benefits for certain things. I actually found a liberals perfect Utopia.

http://youtu.be...

If the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to protest funerals, no matter the distance, then that is not a prohibition of free speech. Now if they were arrested and charged for doing whatever it is that they do, then it would be considered a violation of free speech but that is not the case.

Are you suggesting that a distance requirement does not limit free speech?
I think in MN, it is 1000 ft. Mind you, military funerals are often public and often occur on public land. (I don't care about the ones that occur on private property, as that is not public)
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/23/2015 9:17:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:53:47 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

So because a tiny minority of people would rather be lazy, live off welfare, and refuse to work, the government should discontinue giving all welfare to the people who actually need it? Makes sense.

It would be nice to know what the percent is, wouldn't it?
But, the fact that people can, and do, do this, and can even do it openly, is a valid criticism of government welfare.
A private institution (or person) would likely not stand for it, and if they did, donors could donate elsewhere. Taxpayer have no choice.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/23/2015 9:18:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:52:07 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:07:25 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
Also I found that video to be quite amusing. But if that is what you think liberals are like, then you need to educate yourself on what liberals actually stand for.

Then educate me right now on what you think of certain political issues. My dad says I sound like liberal, but i'm an anarchist who wishes the government would just pull the plug on itself since it's dying already.

You are aware that makes you a liberal in some aspects, right, especially on social issues?
My work here is, finally, done.
Comrade_Silly_Otter
Posts: 725
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2/23/2015 9:24:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:07:25 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
Also I found that video to be quite amusing. But if that is what you think liberals are like, then you need to educate yourself on what liberals actually stand for.

You've always left a bad taste to admit.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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2/23/2015 9:31:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:17:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:53:47 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

So because a tiny minority of people would rather be lazy, live off welfare, and refuse to work, the government should discontinue giving all welfare to the people who actually need it? Makes sense.

It would be nice to know what the percent is, wouldn't it?

Sure.

But, the fact that people can, and do, do this, and can even do it openly, is a valid criticism of government welfare.

There are valid criticisms of welfare. They don't merit abolishing the structure.

A private institution (or person) would likely not stand for it, and if they did, donors could donate elsewhere. Taxpayer have no choice.

LOL at the idea that private groups give one single thought to the poor.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/23/2015 9:35:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:31:13 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:17:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

But, the fact that people can, and do, do this, and can even do it openly, is a valid criticism of government welfare.

There are valid criticisms of welfare. They don't merit abolishing the structure.
No, but a massive reform is called for, IMO.

A private institution (or person) would likely not stand for it, and if they did, donors could donate elsewhere. Taxpayer have no choice.

LOL at the idea that private groups give one single thought to the poor.
Are you suggesting that a church or an individual cannot and does not? If that is the case, than why are there soup kitchens and why do beggars on the street beg?
Or, do the fraternities of old not care about their brethren?
Even United Way and whatnot, that is a harsh criticism. Why do you say this?
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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2/23/2015 9:36:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:35:10 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:31:13 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:17:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

But, the fact that people can, and do, do this, and can even do it openly, is a valid criticism of government welfare.

There are valid criticisms of welfare. They don't merit abolishing the structure.
No, but a massive reform is called for, IMO.

A private institution (or person) would likely not stand for it, and if they did, donors could donate elsewhere. Taxpayer have no choice.

LOL at the idea that private groups give one single thought to the poor.
Are you suggesting that a church or an individual cannot and does not? If that is the case, than why are there soup kitchens and why do beggars on the street beg?

All charity is motivated by selfishness. There is no such thing as altruism. Only the government can give without selfish motivations - and only the government as a system.

Or, do the fraternities of old not care about their brethren?
Even United Way and whatnot, that is a harsh criticism. Why do you say this?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/23/2015 9:41:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:36:32 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:35:10 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:31:13 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/23/2015 9:17:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

But, the fact that people can, and do, do this, and can even do it openly, is a valid criticism of government welfare.

There are valid criticisms of welfare. They don't merit abolishing the structure.
No, but a massive reform is called for, IMO.

A private institution (or person) would likely not stand for it, and if they did, donors could donate elsewhere. Taxpayer have no choice.

LOL at the idea that private groups give one single thought to the poor.
Are you suggesting that a church or an individual cannot and does not? If that is the case, than why are there soup kitchens and why do beggars on the street beg?

All charity is motivated by selfishness. There is no such thing as altruism. Only the government can give without selfish motivations - and only the government as a system.

LOL, I did not expect you to say this. True, altruism is not selfless, but helping someone who does not need it doesn't bring you the satisfaction you are looking for, does it?
And, no, government is not selfless, either. As a system, it can be the closes thing to altruism you can get, but the policies that the system has in place are hardly selfless.

But, one can still care about the poor while helping them.
A greater reason than altruism =/= not giving a thought
....and I thought I was cynical.
My work here is, finally, done.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/23/2015 9:56:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 9:18:29 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:52:07 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:07:25 AM, briantheliberal wrote:
Also I found that video to be quite amusing. But if that is what you think liberals are like, then you need to educate yourself on what liberals actually stand for.

Then educate me right now on what you think of certain political issues. My dad says I sound like liberal, but i'm an anarchist who wishes the government would just pull the plug on itself since it's dying already.

You are aware that makes you a liberal in some aspects, right, especially on social issues?

In some aspects, but not entirely. Nor do I want to take pride in the liberal. I would rather we be identified by our names and only let our beliefs and views known by what we say we are, not what others say we are.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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2/23/2015 3:44:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 7:18:32 AM, Chang29 wrote:
There is little difference between conservatives and liberals, both want government to impose their form of social values on the rest of society. Conservatives and liberals are just different sides of the same plate, one side broccoli, the other cauliflower, there is no good option. American political debate is between the views of Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush which is about the same. Both believe that government should force their set of values on the rest of us, both believe in crony capitalism, both believe in government economic intervention, both believe in progressive taxation, both believe in drug prohibition, both believe in special benefits for the married, and the list goes on and on.

When government has a boot to your throat does it matter if it is a left or right boot?

Agreed.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.