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Pro-Life or Pro-Choice

LaraKent
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3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.
Dilara
Posts: 661
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3/1/2015 1:35:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am pro life. I used to be pro choice. Than I heard Rebecca Keeslings story. She was conceived before roe v wade. Her mom wanted to abort her but couldn't because it was illegal. Could I tell her that if I had my way back then she wouldn't have gotten a chance? That she would be dead?. Everyone deserves a chance. Fetuses are people. They feel pain while being aborted. Watch the 28 minute documentary "silent scream" which is narrated by Bernard nathanson a former abortion doctor. It shows the abortion of a 12 week old fetus. It squirms and tries to fight the abortion instruments before being killed.
Abortion is used to keep down the black population. Planned parenthoods founder Margaret Sanger wrote on page 366 about the klan meeting she went to in silver lake New Jersey and how she was invited to 12 other klan meetings. Planned parenthoods present in 1970 criticized the Iowa state eugenics board for not doing enough forced sterilizations. Planned parenthoods first president lothrop stoddard had a personal meeting with hitler.
I believe there should be acceptions in cases of rape and extreme poverty and of course the mothers life and health.
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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3/1/2015 2:16:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The vast majority of people are neither pro-life nor pro-choice, they just associate with those terms because they are mainstream. Very few people believe abortions are never acceptable, just as very few people believe women should be allowed to receive unlimited late term abortions, most people have a moderate interpretation of the issue, they just don't know it.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/1/2015 2:47:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 2:16:46 PM, Praesentya wrote:
The vast majority of people are neither pro-life nor pro-choice, they just associate with those terms because they are mainstream. Very few people believe abortions are never acceptable, just as very few people believe women should be allowed to receive unlimited late term abortions, most people have a moderate interpretation of the issue, they just don't know it.

Guess I am an extremist then :P
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/1/2015 3:52:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

The first thing is to get a proper understanding of what the terms mean. Because they have been politicized so much, their definitions change based on what side you ask. To many (especually the most vocal of the group) "pro-lifers" (we'll call PL going forward, and PC for pro-choice), they believe that PC supports abortion at any time in pregnancy. To many PC advocates (again, usually just the most vocal of them), they believe that the PL supporters are against abortion at any and all stages. So both sides try to claim the middle ground and call the others extremist.

Rather than trying to identify what side you associate with, or is "right," just find what you believe to be the best (on a sliding, not black-and-white scale) and don't worry about if it is called "pro-life" or "pro-choice."

The series of questions you have to ask yourself are the following. Do humans possess a basic right of choice? Do humans possess a right to life? If these two rights come into conflict, which right is more important? Most people will say the right to life is more important than the rights of choice (that is why I cannot choose to murder someone).

The next question becomes, when are these rights established? After all, they are dichotomies, you either have a right to life or not. You cannot really have a 10% right to life, then a 20% right to life, and so on. It is at one point, you do not have it, then at another you do have it (or can you have a percentage of right to life? That is another fun question to dig into, but you should be able to figure out your personal morals on abortion before you try to tackle that question). So where is the line that we don't have a right to life, and where is the line that we do? And why is that line placed there?

Once you answer these, the simple answer to pro-life vs pro-choice is, "I support the right to choose an abortion before the right to life is established, but not after."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/1/2015 4:19:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro life and pro choice.

Pro life because I believe all forms of life from the human to the sperm and egg cells are sacred.

Pro choice because I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, only God does. Therefore, I believe even if we banned abortion, they'd do it to themselves.
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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3/1/2015 4:51:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am Pro-Choice for these following reasons:
From a legal standpoint you dont have control over other people's bodies even if your trying to save a life. For example it is illegal to take organs from a corpse unless they consented before they died or a family member lets you. You also cant force people to donate kidneys even if the person in the next room will die without it. The last example is that you cant force someone to get vaccinated even if they are putting others in danger by not doing so.
Next the fetus is not entitled to rights until around the 24th week. This is because the fetus does not possess the neural pathways to experience consciousness or pain. Also the fact that the fetus is living makes no difference as we have set a clear precedent that life really has little to no value unless it is a person in which case it is granted legal rights. We can see this by the wide use of antibiotics and pesticides which kill living things by the billions havever no legal action is taken against these procedures.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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3/1/2015 5:17:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro choice (but maybe to a point)

Cause I don't think from the moment of conception a person exists who as the "right to life" (At least in the way the pro life position envisions it). I think the moral/value equivalency assumption of say a child and the organism from the moment of conception should be rejected.

As such I reject the pro life position that is built off this assumption which thus concludes from the moment of conception no abortions.

I am more open to the view of restricting abortion in cases where intelligence/self awareness/pain are variables in play.

I am undecided but lean towards a woman right to choose on the grounds that even where those factors are at play she still should not be forced against her will to continue with a pregnancy.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Chang29
Posts: 732
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3/1/2015 6:04:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am pro-death as long as fathers can initiate the killing. A baby has two parents, neither should become a parent involuntarily. Whereas, mothers are only a voluntary host for a baby. Since, today only mothers determine life or death of a baby. Therefore, in the sake of equality fathers should also have the ability to kill their child.
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Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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3/1/2015 7:19:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

Great idea for a thread starter. I would like to add a third category, if I may. I am extremely opposed to voluntary abortion being legal but I don't call myself "pro-life." Pro-lifers tend to think that all (human) lives are sacred and they generally oppose abortion AND the death penalty for religious reasons. And i do not agree with them on that.

What makes you take the side you are on?

There are so many reasons for that. I don't know where to begin.

Like others, I used to be more apathetic and if anything I leaned more towards pro-choice. My view was; "I don't personally like abortion but who am I to tell someone else what they can or can not do with their body." I didn't believe that life (let alone personhood) begins at conception. My views began to change when i was challenged to prove that a life can begin at any point other than conception and I couldn't do so. The more I tried to fight it, the more I confirmed the biological fact that conception begins a new person's life.

Then I began reading and studying the legal and Constitutional arguments that (for now) clearly fall short of establishing conception as the beginning of a person's "personhood."

What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue?

Good question. As much as I would rather believe that I live in a world where children are not being denied their rights and lives for the sake and convenience of others, I can not find a way to ignore or to deny the facts that I have already found. Facts that prove that a child's life does begin at conception, that their rights and personhood are being denied, and that the injustice will continue until the laws are changed.

Who if anyone has influenced you with your position and how you came to stand with that position?

My biology teachers in school, my own gut, my grandfather, Rush Limbaugh, some personal experiences, girlfriends, online friends (some had abortions) and other resources. Then too, there was a lady who once said to me "If you believe that an abortion is a murder. . . act like it."

If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

You would have to prove to me that a person's life does not begin at conception. Or you would have to prove to me that a child in the womb is not a human being /person. Or you would have to convince me that a child in the womb (person or not) is not entitled to the equal protections of our laws.

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Thanks for your interest.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/2/2015 7:25:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, CuriousKat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Update: Thank you all that are giving me a lot to work with. In reading your comments, I have an additional question to add to my previous ones. When do you believe life begins and why? Thanks again

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/2/2015 10:39:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Reasons I am personally pro-life:
The fetus is a living creature, and human to boot. It is wrong to kill humans. So, it is wrong to have an abortion, so if you do, you better have a damn good reason if you want my respect, and that reason is between you and your maker.

Reasons I am legally pro-choice:
Fetuses, up to the age of viability, should not be afforded rights, as they are not people. Ergo, I cannot support legislation that bans abortions before 20 weeks or so.
My work here is, finally, done.
Chuz-Life
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3/3/2015 2:23:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 7:25:14 AM, LaraKent wrote:
. . . When d2o you believe life begins and why? Thanks again

Your question is very vague. It can be answered in ways that has little or nothing to do with the abortion issue. If I may make a suggestion; the better question is "When does a human being's life begin?" Or, "when does a person's life begin."

This is important because of the legal definition for a natural "person" is "a human being." According to the Supreme Court, personhood is a very important factor in deciding the legality (and the Constitutionality) of abortion. - http://youtu.be...

I digress.

The short answer to the question "When does a human being's life begin?" is "Conception." The answer is based on several biological facts and other indicators that (when all are considered together) lead me to the same conclusion. In no certain order, here is a short list for your consideration.

1. The whole purpose of egg and sperm (haploid reproductive) cells is to unite to form new members of their species. Un-united haploid cells are only a potential for a new organism. If their union is successful, the new organism that they merged to create can immediately be seen as living and growing towards its own adulthood.

2. An organism's aging begins at conception as prior to conception the organism does not exist and every living human's existence and life can be traced all the way back to the moment of their conception but no further. "Aging is a very natural process. It begins at conception and continues throughout the life cycle." - http://umaine.edu...

3. As conception is when a new human life begins, conception is also the moment when biological parenthood begins. Think about it. If conception is not the moment that your life began, then what is it that makes your biological father YOUR father?

4. The very definitions and the synonyms of the word conception offers proof of its indication of the start of a new life. They include "beginning, start, coming into existence, inception, etc" and the antonyms are equally revealing. They include "abortion and death."
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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3/3/2015 4:04:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

I will try to be as brief as possible.

There might be cases when an abortion might be acceptable and should be permitted: when it is the product of rape or incest, or when it possess a threat to the life of the mother, or if the offspring is not viable in some other way; but these are, from what I know, rare cases. Most of the time--like in those cases when the mother simply does not want the child--I would say that abortion would be the wrong course of action and a morally wrong action, because abortion is an act of killing (life begins at conception) which is why I would be more inclined to describe myself as being pro-life.
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Chuz-Life
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3/4/2015 11:29:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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xus00HAY
Posts: 1,388
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3/5/2015 10:36:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"There might be cases when an abortion might be acceptable"

Look, the pro-lifers think that abortion is murder, any abortion.
Look at it this way, Suppose you are on jury duty. The case is a 30 year old man was murdered ( he had it coming ).
The defense attorney is really smart. He has proof that this victim was conceived during a rape 31 years ago, or maybe the DNA test shows the victim's biological father is also his grandfather, i.e. 31 years ago his grandmother's 2nd husband committed incest with his step-daughter.*
Perhaps the victims mother died during birth of the victim. There are places in this world where this still happens every week.
The Defense proved that the doctor thought she could die during childbirth, He recommended abortion, but this did not happen. This doctor testified that her death would have been prevented if she had the abortion.
So the case is, it is OK to kill an unborn child if the pregnancy is the result of rape or abortion, or if the woman's life is in danger.
If abortion is OK if there was rape, incest or a threat to the pregnant woman, then it was OK to kill the guy this unborn baby grew up to be. Thus what the defendant did was the same thing the local abortionist in the victim's home town would have done.
In the closing, the defense asked " if that is not worth your non-guilty vote, what the **** Is?
*The father/grandpa was charged with incest. he plead insanity.
" I was crazy about her!"
LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 12:13:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 4:19:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro life and pro choice.

Pro life because I believe all forms of life from the human to the sperm and egg cells are sacred.

Pro choice because I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, only God does. Therefore, I believe even if we banned abortion, they'd do it to themselves.

Your pro choice argument outweighs your pro life. Please explain how you believe life begins at conception yet say it's a woman's body. If she has life inside her and God had the right (to create /take) life. If she knowingly terminates life, is she not playing God which is not only wrong but blasphemous. I here you that she has to deal with judgement but let me ask you this...If that same woman decided she wanted to abuse her child. Yes it is not her body however but that child has rights and does not deserved to be abused in anyway. Do we step away from the issue and say, it's her child? Not my business? Who am I to tell her she can't abuse her child? If you truly believe life begins in the womb than there should be no difference. A life is a life. You are determining which life is more sacred, should be protected (assuming you would alert the authorities to the abuse) and are you not playing God by not telling a woman it's wrong to kill her child( since you believe life begins at conception ) but would be wrong if she is abusing her child? Yes,No?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/5/2015 12:24:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 12:13:51 PM, LaraKent wrote:
At 3/1/2015 4:19:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro life and pro choice.

Pro life because I believe all forms of life from the human to the sperm and egg cells are sacred.

Pro choice because I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, only God does. Therefore, I believe even if we banned abortion, they'd do it to themselves.

Your pro choice argument outweighs your pro life. Please explain how you believe life begins at conception yet say it's a woman's body. If she has life inside her and God had the right (to create /take) life. If she knowingly terminates life, is she not playing God which is not only wrong but blasphemous. I here you that she has to deal with judgement but let me ask you this...If that same woman decided she wanted to abuse her child. Yes it is not her body however but that child has rights and does not deserved to be abused in anyway. Do we step away from the issue and say, it's her child? Not my business? Who am I to tell her she can't abuse her child? If you truly believe life begins in the womb than there should be no difference. A life is a life. You are determining which life is more sacred, should be protected (assuming you would alert the authorities to the abuse) and are you not playing God by not telling a woman it's wrong to kill her child( since you believe life begins at conception ) but would be wrong if she is abusing her child? Yes,No?

No. I am saying that life begins at conception, but that's not God's view. God says life begins in the blood. And when our sperm enters the woman, it's actually hundreds or millions. Only one sperm cell is going to make it. So unless you can save all those other ones for later, than I believe you've left those sperm cells to die. Plus, they die if your testacles heat up a bunch from what I've heard. I believe the body is a material thing. Even if the fetus were destroyed, the spirit will go into another fetus.

Let's say abortion is banned. It's still gonna happen. I learned that after seeing this.

https://www.youtube.com...
Chuz-Life
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3/5/2015 12:33:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 10:36:39 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
"There might be cases when an abortion might be acceptable"

Look, the pro-lifers think that abortion is murder, any abortion.

Yes that is true of some (many) pro-lifers and that is partly why I call myself "anti-abortion" instead.

My view is that all abortions are "homicides" and that most homicides are also murders but there are (or can be) rare exceptions. The most obvious one being a case where an abortion is deemed necessary (by doctors) to save the mother's life.

Look at it this way, Suppose you are on jury duty. The case is a 30 year old man was murdered ( he had it coming ).

Insufficient data.

The defense attorney is really smart. He has proof that this victim was conceived during a rape 31 years ago, or maybe the DNA test shows the victim's biological father is also his grandfather, i.e. 31 years ago his grandmother's 2nd husband committed incest with his step-daughter.*

Irrelevant in any case.

Perhaps the victims mother died during birth of the victim. There are places in this world where this still happens every week.

This also would be irrelevant.

The Defense proved that the doctor thought she could die during childbirth, He recommended abortion, but this did not happen. This doctor testified that her death would have been prevented if she had the abortion.

Ex post facto justification is not a good defense.

So the case is, it is OK to kill an unborn child if the pregnancy is the result of rape or abortion, or if the woman's life is in danger.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You said earlier that pro-lifers believe all abortions are murders. Remember?

As for those of use (anti-abortion) who recognize as justification for an abortion in rare cases (like to save the mother's life) it is not because we think it's "okay." In fact, we believe doctors should be required to save both the mother and the child in those cases, if he can. So, it;s not about what is "okay." It's about what is (or can be) legally and constitutionally justified.

If abortion is OK if there was rape, incest or a threat to the pregnant woman, then it was OK to kill the guy this unborn baby grew up to be.

That is not true at all. If a punk teen stuck a gun in your face and threatened to kill you - you could legally kill him in an act of self defense. But you would charged with murder yourself, if you hunted him down even a week later and killed him for making that threat.

Thus what the defendant did was the same thing the local abortionist in the victim's home town would have done.

Not even close.

In the closing, the defense asked " if that is not worth your non-guilty vote, what the **** Is?

See above. Your characterization is flawed.

*The father/grandpa was charged with incest. he plead insanity.

Irrelevant.

" I was crazy about her!"

also Irrelevant.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 12:42:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 5:17:48 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, CuriousKat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro choice (but maybe to a point)

Cause I don't think from the moment of conception a person exists who as the "right to life" (At least in the way the pro life position envisions it). I think the moral/value equivalency assumption of say a child and the organism from the moment of conception should be rejected.

As such I reject the pro life position that is built off this assumption which thus concludes from the moment of conception no abortions.

I am more open to the view of restricting abortion in cases where intelligence/self awareness/pain are variables in play.

I am undecided but lean towards a woman right to choose on the grounds that even where those factors are at play she still should not be forced against her will to continue with a pregnancy.

Ok just to be clear. You are saying that a child and an organism are two different things and are not morally valued the same or should been seen to be. You say pro life advocates believe that both child and "organism" have the same or equal right to life. Why do you think that is? Let me ask a couple more questions for clarification if in another situation. Restricting abortion where "intelligence/self awareness/pain" are variables. Are you going to take that position if someone were to ask you if you knew when those variables have become? Or are you going to gather knowledge, dig deeper into the issue to find out if you are right? Since this is a controversial topic, many disagree with, you'll find arguments supporting and rejecting your opinion, so how do you make the decision? Wouldn't you always want to err on the side of life? You last comment is a hard one for both sides but let me ask you this. Would it be ok for you to terminate someone else so that you could live? Thank you for your opinion.
LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 12:55:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 10:39:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, CuriousKat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Reasons I am personally pro-life:
The fetus is a living creature, and human to boot. It is wrong to kill humans. So, it is wrong to have an abortion, so if you do, you better have a damn good reason if you want my respect, and that reason is between you and your maker.

Reasons I am legally pro-choice:
Fetuses, up to the age of viability, should not be afforded rights, as they are not people. Ergo, I cannot support legislation that bans abortions before 20 weeks or so.

Ok a bit confused..Between you and your maker I'm going to go ahead and assume you are talking about God. Your passion behind you statement leads me to think God is your maker. Having said that, how does abortion seem ok when the decision if life lived or not is left up to the mother? Shouldn't it be up to "the maker", God the one who makes life should be the one to determine when a life is viable? Yes/No?

Not people? What determines a person? Cannot support abortions before 20 weeks?I'm going to think that was a typo and meant after but the argument stays the same.
LaraKent
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3/5/2015 1:06:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 4:51:05 PM, komododragon8 wrote:
I am Pro-Choice for these following reasons:
From a legal standpoint you don't have control over other people's bodies even if your trying to save a life. For example it is illegal to take organs from a corpse unless they consented before they died or a family member lets you. You also cant force people to donate kidneys even if the person in the next room will die without it. The last example is that you cant force someone to get vaccinated even if they are putting others in danger by not doing so.
Next the fetus is not entitled to rights until around the 24th week. This is because the fetus does not possess the neural pathways to experience consciousness or pain. Also the fact that the fetus is living makes no difference as we have set a clear precedent that life really has little to no value unless it is a person in which case it is granted legal rights. We can see this by the wide use of antibiotics and pesticides which kill living things by the billions havever no legal action is taken against these procedures.

Ok my other side questions for you...having control over other peoples bodies. Are you saying life is not life until a body is formed? Kidneys are part of a person's body but that's because it has 100% of that person's DNA. Whether the life "fetus" has a body or not, is it not it's own person? 50% of it's DNA does not belong to the body carrying it. Life has no real value unless it is a person? What do you define as a person (besides a body). African Americans of all ages were once thought of as only being 3/5ths a person. As far as the antibiotics and pesticides there is where choice lies in what one does with their body. One can always deny taking antibiotics and can eat organic food. Some pesticides can't be avoided however there are many Green outreach groups that do try to make those illegal. Thanks for your opinion.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2015 1:21:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 12:55:04 PM, LaraKent wrote:
At 3/2/2015 10:39:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, CuriousKat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Reasons I am personally pro-life:
The fetus is a living creature, and human to boot. It is wrong to kill humans. So, it is wrong to have an abortion, so if you do, you better have a damn good reason if you want my respect, and that reason is between you and your maker.

Reasons I am legally pro-choice:
Fetuses, up to the age of viability, should not be afforded rights, as they are not people. Ergo, I cannot support legislation that bans abortions before 20 weeks or so.

Ok a bit confused..Between you and your maker I'm going to go ahead and assume you are talking about God. Your passion behind you statement leads me to think God is your maker. Having said that, how does abortion seem ok when the decision if life lived or not is left up to the mother? Shouldn't it be up to "the maker",
This decision is no different than any other decision that anyone makes.
If I shoot a man in self-defense, I still need to grapple with the fact that I killed someone, and I will need to address it with my maker (God, Allah, Abraham, Karma, whatever).

God the one who makes life should be the one to determine when a life is viable?Yes/No?
Well, science and personal circumstances play a factor as well.

Not people? What determines a person? Cannot support abortions before 20 weeks?I'm going to think that was a typo and meant after but the argument stays the same.
LOL Yes, after 20 weeks, as that is when a fetus can literally survive outside the womb.

People, as in a legal definition of a person, is determined by recognition of existence as a person, and as such, has legal rights and responsibilities. A fetus is not, nor should not, be legally considered a person before the age of viability, as it cannot even perform the basic function necessary for life on its own, and was never in a position to do so.
My work here is, finally, done.
LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 1:29:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 3:52:08 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, Curious kat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

The first thing is to get a proper understanding of what the terms mean. Because they have been politicized so much, their definitions change based on what side you ask. To many (especually the most vocal of the group) "pro-lifers" (we'll call PL going forward, and PC for pro-choice), they believe that PC supports abortion at any time in pregnancy. To many PC advocates (again, usually just the most vocal of them), they believe that the PL supporters are against abortion at any and all stages. So both sides try to claim the middle ground and call the others extremist.

Rather than trying to identify what side you associate with, or is "right," just find what you believe to be the best (on a sliding, not black-and-white scale) and don't worry about if it is called "pro-life" or "pro-choice."

The series of questions you have to ask yourself are the following. Do humans possess a basic right of choice? Do humans possess a right to life? If these two rights come into conflict, which right is more important? Most people will say the right to life is more important than the rights of choice (that is why I cannot choose to murder someone).

The next question becomes, when are these rights established? After all, they are dichotomies, you either have a right to life or not. You cannot really have a 10% right to life, then a 20% right to life, and so on. It is at one point, you do not have it, then at another you do have it (or can you have a percentage of right to life? That is another fun question to dig into, but you should be able to figure out your personal morals on abortion before you try to tackle that question). So where is the line that we don't have a right to life, and where is the line that we do? And why is that line placed there?

Once you answer these, the simple answer to pro-life vs pro-choice is, "I support the right to choose an abortion before the right to life is established, but not after."

Ok I hear you my follow up would be that the bottom line is what is right or not. To decide what is right or not comes from many different sources in one's life. For most it is God. Dependent on which Denomination ,Sect, Form, Figure and/or person that God means differs from person to person. Other avenues may lead a person to see and feel something different than another person's feelings of what is is right and/or wrong. In anything one does, they do it because they do or don't care if something is right or wrong. It's all relative. Having said this would it be fair to say what is right is an opinion and not a determining factor from which side would be on.
LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 1:42:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 12:24:47 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/5/2015 12:13:51 PM, Curious Kat wrote:
At 3/1/2015 4:19:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, CuriousKat wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Pro life and pro choice.

Pro life because I believe all forms of life from the human to the sperm and egg cells are sacred.

Pro choice because I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, only God does. Therefore, I believe even if we banned abortion, they'd do it to themselves.

Your pro choice argument outweighs your pro life. Please explain how you believe life begins at conception yet say it's a woman's body. If she has life inside her and God had the right (to create /take) life. If she knowingly terminates life, is she not playing God which is not only wrong but blasphemous. I here you that she has to deal with judgement but let me ask you this...If that same woman decided she wanted to abuse her child. Yes it is not her body however but that child has rights and does not deserved to be abused in anyway. Do we step away from the issue and say, it's her child? Not my business? Who am I to tell her she can't abuse her child? If you truly believe life begins in the womb than there should be no difference. A life is a life. You are determining which life is more sacred, should be protected (assuming you would alert the authorities to the abuse) and are you not playing God by not telling a woman it's wrong to kill her child( since you believe life begins at conception ) but would be wrong if she is abusing her child? Yes,No?

No. I am saying that life begins at conception, but that's not God's view. God says life begins in the blood. And when our sperm enters the woman, it's actually hundreds or millions. Only one sperm cell is going to make it. So unless you can save all those other ones for later, than I believe you've left those sperm cells to die. Plus, they die if your testacles heat up a bunch from what I've heard. I believe the body is a material thing. Even if the fetus were destroyed, the spirit will go into another fetus.

Let's say abortion is banned. It's still gonna happen. I learned that after seeing this.

https://www.youtube.com...

Peace bro, anyway. What scripture or verse and what book did you get the quote about God and blood?
Sometimes more than one sperm makes it and also sometime an egg will split into two.
I believe those on the pro life side would argue that sperm is not another life. Life has to have 2 sets of DNA and even that can be skewed from different disorders/syndromes.
I will take a look at your video later.
LaraKent
Posts: 9
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3/5/2015 1:44:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 1:35:07 PM, Dilara wrote:
I am pro life. I used to be pro choice. Than I heard Rebecca Keeslings story. She was conceived before roe v wade. Her mom wanted to abort her but couldn't because it was illegal. Could I tell her that if I had my way back then she wouldn't have gotten a chance? That she would be dead?. Everyone deserves a chance. Fetuses are people. They feel pain while being aborted. Watch the 28 minute documentary "silent scream" which is narrated by Bernard nathanson a former abortion doctor. It shows the abortion of a 12 week old fetus. It squirms and tries to fight the abortion instruments before being killed.
Abortion is used to keep down the black population. Planned parenthoods founder Margaret Sanger wrote on page 366 about the klan meeting she went to in silver lake New Jersey and how she was invited to 12 other klan meetings. Planned parenthoods present in 1970 criticized the Iowa state eugenics board for not doing enough forced sterilizations. Planned parenthoods first president lothrop stoddard had a personal meeting with hitler.
I believe there should be acceptions in cases of rape and extreme poverty and of course the mothers life and health.

Thanks for these facts, will check them out!
Dilara
Posts: 661
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3/5/2015 2:32:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 1:44:17 PM, LaraKent wrote:
At 3/1/2015 1:35:07 PM, Dilara wrote:
I am pro life. I used to be pro choice. Than I heard Rebecca Keeslings story. She was conceived before roe v wade. Her mom wanted to abort her but couldn't because it was illegal. Could I tell her that if I had my way back then she wouldn't have gotten a chance? That she would be dead?. Everyone deserves a chance. Fetuses are people. They feel pain while being aborted. Watch the 28 minute documentary "silent scream" which is narrated by Bernard nathanson a former abortion doctor. It shows the abortion of a 12 week old fetus. It squirms and tries to fight the abortion instruments before being killed.
Abortion is used to keep down the black population. Planned parenthoods founder Margaret Sanger wrote on page 366 about the klan meeting she went to in silver lake New Jersey and how she was invited to 12 other klan meetings. Planned parenthoods present in 1970 criticized the Iowa state eugenics board for not doing enough forced sterilizations. Planned parenthoods first president lothrop stoddard had a personal meeting with hitler.
I believe there should be acceptions in cases of rape and extreme poverty and of course the mothers life and health.

Thanks for these facts, will check them out!
Your welcome! :)
Moroni23
Posts: 235
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3/5/2015 2:51:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 9:29:46 AM, LaraKent wrote:
This post is for educational purposes/info gathering to find out why people are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. What makes you take the side you are on? What makes you think you're position is correct on the issue? Who if anyone has influenced you with you position and how you came to stand with that position? If anything, what could change your mind to the other side to which you stand?

Feel free to openly talk about this subject. I want real opinions from real people not talking points that I can read on a political site. So please make your voice heard with clarity,purpose,and truth.

Even though I stronly believe that a hormonal pregnant woman shouldn't decide whether or not a human life has a right to be born or not... I always ask myself one very important question. When making a decition like this. Doest this stance including growing the government and creating laws that inflinge upon certain rights of an individual. Even though I strongly believe against this, I also believe that the government has no right to decide for a woman whether or not that fetus growing inside her is a human life or not. I believe that choice is up to the mother and father. So I guess for all political purposes even though I am a strong religious conservative... I am pro choice. I am also for Gay Marriage for the same reason but that is another conversation.
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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3/5/2015 3:04:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 1:06:04 PM, LaraKent wrote:
At 3/1/2015 4:51:05 PM, komododragon8 wrote:
I am Pro-Choice for these following reasons:
From a legal standpoint you don't have control over other people's bodies even if your trying to save a life. For example it is illegal to take organs from a corpse unless they consented before they died or a family member lets you. You also cant force people to donate kidneys even if the person in the next room will die without it. The last example is that you cant force someone to get vaccinated even if they are putting others in danger by not doing so.
Next the fetus is not entitled to rights until around the 24th week. This is because the fetus does not possess the neural pathways to experience consciousness or pain. Also the fact that the fetus is living makes no difference as we have set a clear precedent that life really has little to no value unless it is a person in which case it is granted legal rights. We can see this by the wide use of antibiotics and pesticides which kill living things by the billions havever no legal action is taken against these procedures.

Ok my other side questions for you...having control over other peoples bodies. Are you saying life is not life until a body is formed?

I am stateing that untill the lifeform has developed the neural pathways for consciousness it is not to be given legal rights. This has nothing to do with life but instead with conciouness.

"Kidneys are part of a person's body but that's because it has 100% of that person's DNA. Whether the life "fetus" has a body or not, is it not it's own person? 50% of it's DNA does not belong to the body carrying it. Life has no real value unless it is a person?"

Like I said before I am basing my desicions on conciousness, Being a seperate body with distinct DNA has nothing to do with this. If being alive and having your own DNA and body were what mattered than it would be illigal to kill a bacteria.

"What do you define as a person (besides a body). African Americans of all ages were once thought of as only being 3/5ths a person."

That is a past event and has no bearing on this modern debate. Just because they were wrong about personhood back than doesnt automatically mean we are wrong now. You have toe prove that I am wrong not just mention a past belief which turned out to be incorrect.

"As far as the antibiotics and pesticides there is where choice lies in what one does with their body. One can always deny taking antibiotics and can eat organic food. Some pesticides can't be avoided however there are many Green outreach groups that do try to make those illegal."

I think you misunderstood my argument about antibiotics and pesticides. I wasnt talking aobut peoples right to avoid them I was talking about how thos procedures set a precedent of life having little to no value without having a conciousness.

"Thanks for your opinion."

Glad I could offer it
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,388
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3/5/2015 8:34:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Planned parenthoods present in 1970 criticized the Iowa state eugenics board for not doing enough forced sterilizations. "

Because we don't know for sure when life begins, abortion cannot be completely unlike murder.
While killing a 30 year old man is not the same thing as killing this guy when his age was somewhere between 0 and -9 months, but there are similarities.
The conclusion that an intelligent person can come to after reading this discussion is that abortion is a poor substitute for contraception, and contraception is a poor substitute for sterilization. When people have been sterilized, they don't have accidental pregnancies so if we had a state eugenics board that really got their job done, there would be no need for abortions.
Look, its 2015, by now we should have the germ warfare technology that would enable our government to invent a disease that would make people sterile, but would not have any other permanent harm done to them.