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A Socialist System WITHOUT TAXES??

Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/14/2010 10:13:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 10:04:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What if the government owned business and used the profit as funding?
It would generally fail at running businesses. Or ditch the money sink and stop governing.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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7/14/2010 10:14:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 10:04:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What if the government owned business and used the profit as funding?

Is it feasible?

What a completely original, workable, realistic idea!</sarcasm>
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/15/2010 3:14:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Initial funding without taxes? Besides, they'd either have to have huge monopolies and essentially be the only business to make enough profit that can in turn run a country.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/15/2010 3:14:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 3:14:34 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Initial funding without taxes? Besides, they'd have to have huge monopolies and essentially be the only business to make enough profit that can in turn run a country.

Fix'd
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 10:26:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Let's look at what it already owns:
-The Post Office
-The military
-The courts
-The prisons
-The streets
-The schools
-The airports
...
And yet it still can't turn a profit without stealing a significant portion of personal income.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/15/2010 10:32:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:26:58 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Let's look at what it already owns:
-The Post Office
-The military
-The courts
-The prisons
-The streets
-The schools
-The airports
...
And yet it still can't turn a profit without stealing a significant portion of personal income.

That's because they don't usually charge you upfront for use of courts, prisons, streets, schools, and airports. I don't really know how you charge for the military except through taxation...

If they did, they could generate quite a lot of profit, in all honesty. It just means the poor couldn't use the courts, streets, schools, and etc.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 10:32:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:26:58 AM, wjmelements wrote:
And yet it still can't break even though it also steals a significant portion of personal income.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/15/2010 10:36:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:32:16 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/15/2010 10:26:58 AM, wjmelements wrote:
Let's look at what it already owns:
-The Post Office
-The military
-The courts
-The prisons
-The streets
-The schools
-The airports
...
And yet it still can't turn a profit without stealing a significant portion of personal income.

That's because they don't usually charge you upfront for use of courts, prisons, streets, schools, and airports. I don't really know how you charge for the military except through taxation...

If they did, they could generate quite a lot of profit, in all honesty. It just means the poor couldn't use the courts, streets, schools, and etc.

So are you saying that giving them more businesses to ruin by whining until the poor can use them free will solve the funding problem? ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/15/2010 10:39:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:36:50 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
So are you saying that giving them more businesses to ruin by whining until the poor can use them free will solve the funding problem? ^_^

No, I didn't say anything of the sort, lol. That's some pretty subjective interpretation right there.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 10:39:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:32:16 AM, Volkov wrote:
I don't really know how you charge for the military except through taxation...

You can't. It's a free-rider problem. The rest of them could be operated like businesses, but does anybody really think the government would become so efficient as to charge for its services? Especially in a democracy. People like the feel of things seeming to be free.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Valtarov
Posts: 136
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7/15/2010 11:09:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 10:39:38 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 10:32:16 AM, Volkov wrote:
I don't really know how you charge for the military except through taxation...

You can't. It's a free-rider problem. The rest of them could be operated like businesses, but does anybody really think the government would become so efficient as to charge for its services? Especially in a democracy. People like the feel of things seeming to be free.

Robert Heinlein said that democracy works until the people figure out they can vote themselves free bread and circuses. Then it becomes a contest to see who can promise the most free bread and free circuses with money that doesn't exist until the whole system collapses.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 4:19:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM, mongeese wrote:
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.

You are paid by the courts to keep prisoners there for a set period of time.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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7/15/2010 4:31:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:19:41 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM, mongeese wrote:
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.

You are paid by the courts to keep prisoners there for a set period of time.

Then how do the courts keep a profit?

You could always force the prisoners to do slave labor.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 4:35:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:31:57 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:19:41 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM, mongeese wrote:
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.

You are paid by the courts to keep prisoners there for a set period of time.

Then how do the courts keep a profit?

You have to buy food every day. How do you have any money?
Courts make money from lawsuits.

You could always force the prisoners to do slave labor.

Allowing prisons to make even more profits, and allowing the price of holding prisoners to go down.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 4:36:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:35:00 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/14/2010 10:04:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What if the government owned business and used the profit as funding?

Is it feasible?

I told you that FREEDO's next step would be State Socialism.

http://i7.photobucket.com...
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/15/2010 4:37:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 10:04:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What if the government owned business and used the profit as funding?

Is it feasible?

Worked great for the USSR...oh wait.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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7/15/2010 4:39:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:35:53 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:31:57 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:19:41 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM, mongeese wrote:
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.

You are paid by the courts to keep prisoners there for a set period of time.

Then how do the courts keep a profit?

Courts make money from lawsuits.
So every time you sue somebody, either you or your opponent has to pay for the entire court process, as well as the judge's salary, the jury's salary, and the cost of sending people to prison? Seems like suing people just got even more expensive.

You could always force the prisoners to do slave labor.

Allowing prisons to make even more profits, and allowing the price of holding prisoners to go down.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/15/2010 4:48:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:43:10 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The irony is that FREEDO's goal is to decentralize power.

I never fully understood Freedo's political ideology.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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7/15/2010 4:53:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:35:53 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:31:57 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:19:41 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/15/2010 11:26:57 AM, mongeese wrote:
I don't see how you could get a profitable prison. Nobody is going to pay to work there, nobody is going to pay to visit there, and nobody is going to pay to be locked up. Sure, you could start a service of locking up whoever the rich want, but that seems to be a bit of a human rights violation.

You are paid by the courts to keep prisoners there for a set period of time.

Then how do the courts keep a profit?

You have to buy food every day. How do you have any money?
Courts make money from lawsuits.

You could always force the prisoners to do slave labor.

Allowing prisons to make even more profits, and allowing the price of holding prisoners to go down.

Say a poor person kills somebody. You can't get enough money from this person to pay the courts to get him in jail. Person isn't worth it. Person walks.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/15/2010 4:55:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:48:14 PM, innomen wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:43:10 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The irony is that FREEDO's goal is to decentralize power.

I never fully understood Freedo's political ideology.

As soon as you start to understand it, he'll probably just change it again. :P
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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7/15/2010 6:14:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:48:14 PM, innomen wrote:

I never fully understood Freedo's political ideology.

It's all good, neither does he ; )
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/15/2010 9:39:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 6:14:55 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:48:14 PM, innomen wrote:

I never fully understood Freedo's political ideology.

It's all good, neither does he ; )

lol
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/15/2010 9:40:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 4:43:10 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The irony is that FREEDO's goal is to decentralize power.

The government is directly controlled by the people.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/15/2010 9:41:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 9:40:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 4:43:10 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The irony is that FREEDO's goal is to decentralize power.

The government is directly controlled by the people.


No such entity exists to control a damn thing.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/15/2010 10:03:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 10:04:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What if the government owned business and used the profit as funding?

Is it feasible?

...So basically, give the government power over everything and screw the poor?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands