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Racism, Fraternities and U. of Oklahoma

YYW
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3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?
Tsar of DDO
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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3/11/2015 2:49:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think expulsion is pretty harsh, and I have serious doubts that the university could even defend that if they did decided to fight the appeals. The chant was deplorable, and shutting down the fraternity makes complete sense. As far as punishments for individuals go, though, educating them and allowing them to grow is a much better response than expelling them.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/11/2015 3:09:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A few questions:
What was the context of this chant?
Where did it occur?
The school is public university, right?
Was the frat shutdown nationwide, or just at that campus?
My work here is, finally, done.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/11/2015 3:31:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

Revoking the charter should have been sufficient.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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3/11/2015 3:39:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

What were the lyrics to the "racist chant"?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/11/2015 3:46:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 3:39:22 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

What were the lyrics to the "racist chant"?

No nwords in my fraternity....
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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3/11/2015 3:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 3:46:03 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/11/2015 3:39:22 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

What were the lyrics to the "racist chant"?

No nwords in my fraternity....
It's ironic because now there will never be a Black Man there again, as it is being shut down.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/11/2015 3:52:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 3:50:52 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 3/11/2015 3:46:03 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/11/2015 3:39:22 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

What were the lyrics to the "racist chant"?

No nwords in my fraternity....
It's ironic because now there will never be a Black Man there again, as it is being shut down.

Yup, no crackas either.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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3/11/2015 3:57:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 3:09:05 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
A few questions:
What was the context of this chant?
???
Seems like a celebration chant of some kind
Where did it occur?
On the way to a "date" party in celebration of the Frat's Founder's Day
The school is public university, right?
Not sure
Was the frat shutdown nationwide, or just at that campus?
Just the campus

Coincidentally, I recall seeing Confederate Flags within the same frat on new footage.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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3/11/2015 4:11:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

Based on the offenders behavior, I can see why other developed look down on the United States.

I think they made the right choice. In my opinion, the offenders should spend a week in the public stocks(http://en.wikipedia.org...) to face public beatings and humiliation.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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3/11/2015 4:26:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 4:11:23 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

Based on the offenders behavior, I can see why other developed look down on the United States.

I think they made the right choice. In my opinion, the offenders should spend a week in the public stocks(http://en.wikipedia.org...) to face public beatings and humiliation.

That would be every bit as barbaric as the behavior of the frat members, if not more so.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
SamStevens
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3/11/2015 4:29:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 4:26:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:11:23 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/11/2015 2:22:35 PM, YYW wrote:
As many of you probably already know, members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were expelled today for their "leadership role" in a chant that was described by the president of UO as "racist" and "exclusionary." They were informed in writing by the president of the University of Oklahoma, and they were afforded a chance to appeal that decision by no later than Friday of this week -ironically, by way of the Equal Opportunity Office at the University. Only two male college students who were members of the SAE fraternity were expelled, even though a considerable number of other students participated. No other students have, thus far, faced expulsion.

I expect that they will appeal, the university will capitulate and the students will be re-admitted once they have undergone a considerable degree of public humiliation. I don't believe that the University of Oklahoma intends to legally defend its decision to expel the students, although I think that the reason that UO took the unusually bold step of expelling these students was to preserve its public image.

What do you think about the recent events that took place at UO? Do you think the university made the right choice? What do you believe is at stake in this situation?

Based on the offenders behavior, I can see why other developed look down on the United States.

I think they made the right choice. In my opinion, the offenders should spend a week in the public stocks(http://en.wikipedia.org...) to face public beatings and humiliation.

That would be every bit as barbaric as the behavior of the frat members, if not more so.

In my book, that is child's play.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.
Tsar of DDO
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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3/11/2015 6:53:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Oh please.
YYW
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3/11/2015 6:55:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:53:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Oh please.

I know you're not in college, so you really don't have any idea... but if you ever decide to go, and if you chose to rush, you will learn that racist (and sexist) chants are the norm.

A lot of the guys who say it don't even believe it, but they still say it.

Most frat boys are entitled spoiled brats from the upper middle class, and their idea of what "blackness" is comes from pop culture and the news.

They are what you might call "sheltered."
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/11/2015 6:56:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Most of these fraternities were formed around the civil war years or earlier.

Steeped in tradition and rituals, racism is naturally expected.
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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3/11/2015 6:58:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Actually, it's not. OU is a state university, and therefore its actions must pass constitutional standards. Expelling someone because they made some racist remarks really is inconsistent with the first amendment, especially in the context of a college setting, and I know that OU knows that... which is why they will almost surely re-admit the students if their expulsion is legally challenged.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.
Tsar of DDO
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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3/11/2015 7:00:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:55:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:53:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Oh please.

I know you're not in college, so you really don't have any idea... but if you ever decide to go, and if you chose to rush, you will learn that racist (and sexist) chants are the norm.

A lot of the guys who say it don't even believe it, but they still say it.

Most frat boys are entitled spoiled brats from the upper middle class, and their idea of what "blackness" is comes from pop culture and the news.

They are what you might call "sheltered."

While I definitely agree with the bolded, I wouldn't go so far as to say that most white frats do this kind of thing. A lot of them do, and I think it varies from school to school and state to state. But most? Hard to say, but probably not.
YYW
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3/11/2015 7:01:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:56:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Most of these fraternities were formed around the civil war years or earlier.

Steeped in tradition and rituals, racism is naturally expected.

Fraternities are not inherently bad organizations, and I've hooked up with my fair share of frat boys. They were kind of like a hobby of mine when I was an undergrad.

Closeted frat boys are usually excellent in bed, but I digress...

What's really going on is that they do these things to reinforce a sense of their community... it just happens that it looks really bad to an outside observer.

It is horrible what they said, but I don't think any reasonable person who was aware of the context in which it took place would believe that they meant any of the things they said.
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/11/2015 7:03:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 7:01:50 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:56:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Most of these fraternities were formed around the civil war years or earlier.

Steeped in tradition and rituals, racism is naturally expected.

Fraternities are not inherently bad organizations, and I've hooked up with my fair share of frat boys. They were kind of like a hobby of mine when I was an undergrad.

Closeted frat boys are usually excellent in bed, but I digress...

What's really going on is that they do these things to reinforce a sense of their community... it just happens that it looks really bad to an outside observer.

It is horrible what they said, but I don't think any reasonable person who was aware of the context in which it took place would believe that they meant any of the things they said.

You were right before YYW.

I have been an initiated member of 2 national social fraternities on 3 different campuses (campusi?)

Yah, you were right before.
YYW
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3/11/2015 7:04:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 7:00:25 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:55:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:53:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Oh please.

I know you're not in college, so you really don't have any idea... but if you ever decide to go, and if you chose to rush, you will learn that racist (and sexist) chants are the norm.

A lot of the guys who say it don't even believe it, but they still say it.

Most frat boys are entitled spoiled brats from the upper middle class, and their idea of what "blackness" is comes from pop culture and the news.

They are what you might call "sheltered."

While I definitely agree with the bolded, I wouldn't go so far as to say that most white frats do this kind of thing. A lot of them do, and I think it varies from school to school and state to state. But most? Hard to say, but probably not.

When I say "white" I mean "only white," like, a fraternity composed of white guys and no other kind of people.

Chapters do vary from state to state, and even university to university... but not really by a whole lot.
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ford_prefect
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3/11/2015 7:07:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 6:58:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Actually, it's not. OU is a state university, and therefore its actions must pass constitutional standards. Expelling someone because they made some racist remarks really is inconsistent with the first amendment, especially in the context of a college setting, and I know that OU knows that... which is why they will almost surely re-admit the students if their expulsion is legally challenged.

Racist remarks are not enough to warrant expulsion. Hate speech is not merely "racist remarks". These guys were talking about "stringing n*ggers up from a tree" and stuff. A judge could easily find that expelling people who are calling for racial violence is perfectly constitutional. In other words, those frat boys have a right to say "Our fraternity will never admit n*ggers" and even "I hate n*ggers, they are inferior to whites" but they do not have the right to make black students feel unsafe on campus. If a student went around making bomb threats, the university could easily expel them too. Not really a free speech issue.
YYW
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3/11/2015 7:11:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 7:07:27 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:58:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Actually, it's not. OU is a state university, and therefore its actions must pass constitutional standards. Expelling someone because they made some racist remarks really is inconsistent with the first amendment, especially in the context of a college setting, and I know that OU knows that... which is why they will almost surely re-admit the students if their expulsion is legally challenged.

Racist remarks are not enough to warrant expulsion.

I would agree.

Hate speech is not merely "racist remarks". These guys were talking about "stringing n*ggers up from a tree" and stuff.

Correct.

A judge could easily find that expelling people who are calling for racial violence is perfectly constitutional. In other words, those frat boys have a right to say "Our fraternity will never admit n*ggers" and even "I hate n*ggers, they are inferior to whites" but they do not have the right to make black students feel unsafe on campus. If a student went around making bomb threats, the university could easily expel them too. Not really a free speech issue.

Well, that's actually a complicated issue. There are legal standards for what's required for a "threat" and what they said doesn't even come close to it. I also don't think there is any evidence that could indicate that they were creating an environment where black students felt unsafe. Unwelcome, perhaps.... but definitely not threatened.
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dylancatlow
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3/11/2015 7:11:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 7:04:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 7:00:25 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:55:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:53:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/11/2015 6:49:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:47:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/11/2015 4:36:42 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
First of all, it's OU. Second of all, I see no reason why OU couldn't defend the expulsion from a legal standpoint. It is a public university, and hate speech (advocating race-based lynching) is definitely grounds for expulsion.

Whether they intend to stick to their guns or if this was just for PR purposes, who knows. Though I will say, from SAE's reputation at my campus in an entirely different state, I am not surprised their members behave in this way. And I think most people with any knowledge of the frat would not be surprised either.

SAE has been known nationwide for pulling crap like this. This isn't an isolated incident.

Oh no, not at all. That kind of behavior is literally the norm for every white fraternity I have ever seen.

Oh please.

I know you're not in college, so you really don't have any idea... but if you ever decide to go, and if you chose to rush, you will learn that racist (and sexist) chants are the norm.

A lot of the guys who say it don't even believe it, but they still say it.

Most frat boys are entitled spoiled brats from the upper middle class, and their idea of what "blackness" is comes from pop culture and the news.

They are what you might call "sheltered."

While I definitely agree with the bolded, I wouldn't go so far as to say that most white frats do this kind of thing. A lot of them do, and I think it varies from school to school and state to state. But most? Hard to say, but probably not.

When I say "white" I mean "only white," like, a fraternity composed of white guys and no other kind of people.

Chapters do vary from state to state, and even university to university... but not really by a whole lot.

I wasn't aware that all-white fraternities were even a thing. lol