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The Infamous Letter to Iran

YYW
Posts: 36,249
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3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the nuclear agreement that President Obama is trying to orchestrate. The letter was mocked by Iranians, and infuriated democrats and more mature Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The main point of the letter itself was to articulate to Iranian leadership that the next (presumably Republican) president could revoke any agreement between President Obama and the Ayatollah, and Congress could easily modify it. The implication was that President Obama can't deliver a lasting bargain he's trying so hard to negotiate with the Iranians.

Let me be clear when I make this point:

Never, in the history of congress, has any political party so manifestly exercised its power in a more idiotic way. This is the height of stupidity, predicted upon Israeli hyperbole which rests more on pomp and bombast than reason and prudence. Tom Cotton is too young and dumb to understand the gravity of what he did, but someone like John McCain should have stepped up. Instead, McCain's excuse for signing this was that he has "a lot of letters" that cross his desk.

The reason this presents such an issue is because hard-liners in Iran (like, the kind of people whose religiosity makes our collective skin crawl) want this to fall through so that Iran can continue to harden its nuclear capacities from external threats (like US bunker buster missiles, for example) and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, to the tune of a fleet of intercontinental ballistic missiles. That is *in fact* what will happen if Obama's deal falls through, and to the extent that Republicans undermine that deal, Republicans push Iran closer and closer to developing the bomb.

This deal is, nevertheless, not *good* by any reasonable standard; it only is less bad than the other alternative. That's how, more often than not, foreign policy works. It should surprise no one that Tom Cotton, who has precisely no foreign policy credentials, would be inclined to understand that.

The Republican fantasy of American supremacy has blighted its ability to reasonably understand the limits of our influence. It's just not the case that we are able to bully Iran into capitulating; because they have the means and the will to pursue what is quite literally the "nuclear option." That's what's at stake here: a choice between an Iran that continues to enrich nuclear materials, but slows to a rate where the United States could exercise military retaliation should we discover the Iranians are developing nuclear weaponry, or an Iran that pursues a nuclear weapon at the fastest rate that it can and continues to harden its nuclear facilities.
Tsar of DDO
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/13/2015 2:47:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Completely childish behavior. Thankfully, Iran is not buying it "In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy"
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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3/13/2015 3:14:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the nuclear agreement that President Obama is trying to orchestrate. The letter was mocked by Iranians, and infuriated democrats and more mature Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The main point of the letter itself was to articulate to Iranian leadership that the next (presumably Republican) president could revoke any agreement between President Obama and the Ayatollah, and Congress could easily modify it. The implication was that President Obama can't deliver a lasting bargain he's trying so hard to negotiate with the Iranians.

Let me be clear when I make this point:

Never, in the history of congress, has any political party so manifestly exercised its power in a more idiotic way. This is the height of stupidity, predicted upon Israeli hyperbole which rests more on pomp and bombast than reason and prudence. Tom Cotton is too young and dumb to understand the gravity of what he did, but someone like John McCain should have stepped up. Instead, McCain's excuse for signing this was that he has "a lot of letters" that cross his desk.

The reason this presents such an issue is because hard-liners in Iran (like, the kind of people whose religiosity makes our collective skin crawl) want this to fall through so that Iran can continue to harden its nuclear capacities from external threats (like US bunker buster missiles, for example) and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, to the tune of a fleet of intercontinental ballistic missiles. That is *in fact* what will happen if Obama's deal falls through, and to the extent that Republicans undermine that deal, Republicans push Iran closer and closer to developing the bomb.

This deal is, nevertheless, not *good* by any reasonable standard; it only is less bad than the other alternative. That's how, more often than not, foreign policy works. It should surprise no one that Tom Cotton, who has precisely no foreign policy credentials, would be inclined to understand that.

The Republican fantasy of American supremacy has blighted its ability to reasonably understand the limits of our influence. It's just not the case that we are able to bully Iran into capitulating; because they have the means and the will to pursue what is quite literally the "nuclear option." That's what's at stake here: a choice between an Iran that continues to enrich nuclear materials, but slows to a rate where the United States could exercise military retaliation should we discover the Iranians are developing nuclear weaponry, or an Iran that pursues a nuclear weapon at the fastest rate that it can and continues to harden its nuclear facilities.

I'm quite disappointed in it. Even myself as a Tea Partier I find it wrong to see both of my State's senators and Rand Paul's name on that list. Though I agree with what they said I disagree with the way they did it and it was completely childish and uncalled for.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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3/13/2015 3:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here's a copy of the Letter (http://www.debate.org...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/13/2015 3:20:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Doesn't Iran submit to UN nuclear inspectors and have signed the NPT?

Does anybody have a link to either that treaty or the letter to Iran so I can discuss this intelligently?

Has the trilateral commission released a statement about this, with their recommendations?
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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3/13/2015 3:22:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:21:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:17:10 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Here's a copy of the Letter (http://www.debate.org...)

That link is not working for me

Try this one (http://www.nytimes.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/13/2015 3:30:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:22:27 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:21:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:17:10 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Here's a copy of the Letter (http://www.debate.org...)

That link is not working for me

Try this one (http://www.nytimes.com...)

Thanks
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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3/13/2015 3:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 3:30:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:22:27 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:21:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/13/2015 3:17:10 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Here's a copy of the Letter (http://www.debate.org...)

That link is not working for me

Try this one (http://www.nytimes.com...)

Thanks

Welcome.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,817
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3/13/2015 3:54:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the nuclear agreement that President Obama is trying to orchestrate. The letter was mocked by Iranians, and infuriated democrats and more mature Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The main point of the letter itself was to articulate to Iranian leadership that the next (presumably Republican) president could revoke any agreement between President Obama and the Ayatollah, and Congress could easily modify it. The implication was that President Obama can't deliver a lasting bargain he's trying so hard to negotiate with the Iranians.

Let me be clear when I make this point:

Never, in the history of congress, has any political party so manifestly exercised its power in a more idiotic way. This is the height of stupidity, predicted upon Israeli hyperbole which rests more on pomp and bombast than reason and prudence. Tom Cotton is too young and dumb to understand the gravity of what he did, but someone like John McCain should have stepped up. Instead, McCain's excuse for signing this was that he has "a lot of letters" that cross his desk.

The reason this presents such an issue is because hard-liners in Iran (like, the kind of people whose religiosity makes our collective skin crawl) want this to fall through so that Iran can continue to harden its nuclear capacities from external threats (like US bunker buster missiles, for example) and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, to the tune of a fleet of intercontinental ballistic missiles. That is *in fact* what will happen if Obama's deal falls through, and to the extent that Republicans undermine that deal, Republicans push Iran closer and closer to developing the bomb.

This deal is, nevertheless, not *good* by any reasonable standard; it only is less bad than the other alternative. That's how, more often than not, foreign policy works. It should surprise no one that Tom Cotton, who has precisely no foreign policy credentials, would be inclined to understand that.

The Republican fantasy of American supremacy has blighted its ability to reasonably understand the limits of our influence. It's just not the case that we are able to bully Iran into capitulating; because they have the means and the will to pursue what is quite literally the "nuclear option." That's what's at stake here: a choice between an Iran that continues to enrich nuclear materials, but slows to a rate where the United States could exercise military retaliation should we discover the Iranians are developing nuclear weaponry, or an Iran that pursues a nuclear weapon at the fastest rate that it can and continues to harden its nuclear facilities.

This should have been our response: https://www.youtube.com...
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/13/2015 7:14:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the

It's like having toddlers in the room during an important business meeting.

http://www.quickmeme.com...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
Posts: 36,249
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3/13/2015 7:42:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 7:14:48 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the

It's like having toddlers in the room during an important business meeting.

http://www.quickmeme.com...

Well put.
Tsar of DDO
Berend
Posts: 188
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3/15/2015 1:49:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
They were absolutely stupid in doing this and not to mention getting cocky. I hope they lose real bad for the next president just for this act.

All my GOP ( I am an independent liberal FYI) telling me how THEY will fix Murica and do the right thing because Obama is just to damn incompetent.... Then they tell us Climate change is not man made in the sense scientist say. They then argue how a snowball shows it is not getting warmer. Finally they pull this off. They officially can not govern at all. We have only one party, because the other is showing to be full of idiots day by day by day. And the people who follow this political party, just look on Facebook how most of them act. Absolutely childish.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,230
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3/15/2015 2:05:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 2:47:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Completely childish behavior. Thankfully, Iran is not buying it "In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,230
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3/15/2015 2:05:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 2:47:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Completely childish behavior. Thankfully, Iran is not buying it "In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy"
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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3/15/2015 10:39:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:
47 Republican senators signed a letter to the Iranian government concerning the nuclear agreement that President Obama is trying to orchestrate. The letter was mocked by Iranians, and infuriated democrats and more mature Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com...

The main point of the letter itself was to articulate to Iranian leadership that the next (presumably Republican) president could revoke any agreement between President Obama and the Ayatollah, and Congress could easily modify it. The implication was that President Obama can't deliver a lasting bargain he's trying so hard to negotiate with the Iranians.

Let me be clear when I make this point:

Never, in the history of congress, has any political party so manifestly exercised its power in a more idiotic way. This is the height of stupidity, predicted upon Israeli hyperbole which rests more on pomp and bombast than reason and prudence. Tom Cotton is too young and dumb to understand the gravity of what he did, but someone like John McCain should have stepped up. Instead, McCain's excuse for signing this was that he has "a lot of letters" that cross his desk.

The reason this presents such an issue is because hard-liners in Iran (like, the kind of people whose religiosity makes our collective skin crawl) want this to fall through so that Iran can continue to harden its nuclear capacities from external threats (like US bunker buster missiles, for example) and continue to pursue nuclear weaponry, to the tune of a fleet of intercontinental ballistic missiles. That is *in fact* what will happen if Obama's deal falls through, and to the extent that Republicans undermine that deal, Republicans push Iran closer and closer to developing the bomb.

This deal is, nevertheless, not *good* by any reasonable standard; it only is less bad than the other alternative. That's how, more often than not, foreign policy works. It should surprise no one that Tom Cotton, who has precisely no foreign policy credentials, would be inclined to understand that.

The Republican fantasy of American supremacy has blighted its ability to reasonably understand the limits of our influence. It's just not the case that we are able to bully Iran into capitulating; because they have the means and the will to pursue what is quite literally the "nuclear option." That's what's at stake here: a choice between an Iran that continues to enrich nuclear materials, but slows to a rate where the United States could exercise military retaliation should we discover the Iranians are developing nuclear weaponry, or an Iran that pursues a nuclear weapon at the fastest rate that it can and continues to harden its nuclear facilities.

lol Republicans. My favorite thing about Republicans is that they are a comedy gold mine.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,197
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3/15/2015 11:03:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/13/2015 9:40:54 AM, YYW wrote:


This letter is the final straw and has spurred me to renounce my affiliation with the GOP.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/15/2015 11:06:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 1:49:09 AM, Berend wrote:
They were absolutely stupid in doing this and not to mention getting cocky. I hope they lose real bad for the next president just for this act.

All my GOP ( I am an independent liberal FYI) telling me how THEY will fix Murica and do the right thing because Obama is just to damn incompetent.... Then they tell us Climate change is not man made in the sense scientist say. They then argue how a snowball shows it is not getting warmer. Finally they pull this off. They officially can not govern at all. We have only one party, because the other is showing to be full of idiots day by day by day. And the people who follow this political party, just look on Facebook how most of them act. Absolutely childish.

But you are a republican. I know this because I'm 100% republican and we agree on 67% of issues, which makes you 67% true republican.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/15/2015 11:07:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am going to update my big issues though. There is a chance some opinions have changed and you may in fact be more than 67% Republican.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/15/2015 11:12:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 1:49:09 AM, Berend wrote:
They were absolutely stupid in doing this and not to mention getting cocky. I hope they lose real bad for the next president just for this act.

All my GOP ( I am an independent liberal FYI) telling me how THEY will fix Murica and do the right thing because Obama is just to damn incompetent.... Then they tell us Climate change is not man made in the sense scientist say. They then argue how a snowball shows it is not getting warmer. Finally they pull this off. They officially can not govern at all. We have only one party, because the other is showing to be full of idiots day by day by day. And the people who follow this political party, just look on Facebook how most of them act. Absolutely childish.

You went down to 58% republican