Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

Federalist vs. Democrat-Republicans

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2010 8:06:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Federalist- which supported a strong national government and commercial interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Democratic-Republican Party- advocated states' rights and idealized the yeoman farmer and the French Revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Is this what we have today?

Strong national government does not have to translate to "Big Government".

What did history show as the better system?
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 9:34:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 8:06:58 PM, comoncents wrote:
Federalist- which supported a strong national government and commercial interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Democratic-Republican Party- advocated states' rights and idealized the yeoman farmer and the French Revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Is this what we have today?

Strong national government does not have to translate to "Big Government".



What did history show as the better system?

Martin Van Buren believed that this is the traditional ideological division for Englishmen (http://books.google.com... pg. 266). There was:

Limit Gov't vs. Strong Federal Gov't
Roundhead vs. Caveliers
Whig vs. Tory
Democratic-Republican vs. Federalist
Extending from after his book:
Democratic vs. National Republican
Democratic vs. Whig
Democratic vs. Republican
Republican vs. Democratic

I don't think we can look at history and view one or the other system as "better." History has shown an overall ebb an flow of federal power. One direction or another was "better" for a specific time period. Federal power would become too strong for what the people desired, so limiting federal power became "better." At other times, some huge event would transpire (i.e. a world war) that required a strong federal government, so it became "better."
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 9:39:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It seems that the "Federalist" party has dwindled slightly into the "Democratic" party, while the "Democratic-Republican" party has dwindled slightly into the "Republican" party. However, we can't really compare them to the parties we have today.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 9:43:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 9:39:15 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
It seems that the "Federalist" party has dwindled slightly into the "Democratic" party, while the "Democratic-Republican" party has dwindled slightly into the "Republican" party. However, we can't really compare them to the parties we have today.

If we simplify to general view on the government's role in society, then we can compare them. On one side (listed in my post above) we have the view of government as a necessary evil to protect people from disorder and to enforce contracts. On the other side we have the view that government is a tool for bettering society.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 7:27:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 9:43:34 AM, JBlake wrote:
At 7/23/2010 9:39:15 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
It seems that the "Federalist" party has dwindled slightly into the "Democratic" party, while the "Democratic-Republican" party has dwindled slightly into the "Republican" party. However, we can't really compare them to the parties we have today.

If we simplify to general view on the government's role in society, then we can compare them. On one side (listed in my post above) we have the view of government as a necessary evil to protect people from disorder and to enforce contracts. On the other side we have the view that government is a tool for bettering society.

But Adams was not necessarily about "Big" government; he was more on a strong central government, there was a difference.

I think that the democrats of today have a entirely different agenda.

Funny that the roots of todays Democratic party comes from Jefferson's Democratic-republicans. The Republican party gets its roots from Lincoln, at an opportune moment when the democrats were split.
The Federalists just died out, along with the Whigs.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 7:30:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian democrats.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 7:33:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 9:43:34 AM, JBlake wrote:
On the other side we have the view that government is a tool for bettering society.

I like to view government as a tool to protect the people and Liberty, not to better society necessarily.

I know that what I view government as does bettering society but I wanted to draw a difference because I think that you think of bettering society with a different adumbration.
MTGandP
Posts: 702
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 8:03:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Today the dividing line isn't where government should be, but what government should deal with. Back then it was a question of federal vs. state power. Now, it's more a question of social vs. economic power -- to simplify, Democrats support large-government economics and small-government on social issues, while Republicans support the opposite.

Libertarian aren't quite like Democrat-Republicans, but there are a lot of similarities.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 8:08:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:03:21 PM, MTGandP wrote:
Today the dividing line isn't where government should be, but what government should deal with. Back then it was a question of federal vs. state power. Now, it's more a question of social vs. economic power -- to simplify, Democrats support large-government economics and small-government on social issues, while Republicans support the opposite.


I see what you mean.

Libertarian aren't quite like Democrat-Republicans, but there are a lot of similarities.

I agree.
Where do you find the difference in the two?
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 8:18:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:08:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:03:21 PM, MTGandP wrote:
Today the dividing line isn't where government should be, but what government should deal with. Back then it was a question of federal vs. state power. Now, it's more a question of social vs. economic power -- to simplify, Democrats support large-government economics and small-government on social issues, while Republicans support the opposite.


I see what you mean.

Libertarian aren't quite like Democrat-Republicans, but there are a lot of similarities.

I agree.
Where do you find the difference in the two?

I agree with much of the Democratic-Republican ideas. However, I don't think I'll be a libertarian any time soon.
Panarachism is nice ;)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 8:21:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:08:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:03:21 PM, MTGandP wrote:
Today the dividing line isn't where government should be, but what government should deal with. Back then it was a question of federal vs. state power. Now, it's more a question of social vs. economic power -- to simplify, Democrats support large-government economics and small-government on social issues, while Republicans support the opposite.


I see what you mean.

Libertarian aren't quite like Democrat-Republicans, but there are a lot of similarities.

I agree.
Where do you find the difference in the two?

Jefferson believed in taxes.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 8:40:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 9:34:46 AM, JBlake wrote:
I don't think we can look at history and view one or the other system as "better."

"History, in general, only informs us what bad government is." --Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell, 1807. ME 11:223
MTGandP
Posts: 702
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2010 9:26:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:08:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:03:21 PM, MTGandP wrote:
Libertarian aren't quite like Democrat-Republicans, but there are a lot of similarities.

I agree.
Where do you find the difference in the two?

Democrat-Republicans supported a lot of Libertarian-esque ideas like nullification. But they weren't opposed to government itself, only to a powerful centralized government. State governments were perfectly acceptable and in fact it was preferable that they be more powerful than not.

On the other hand, Libertarians are more likely to oppose even a powerful state government, because they would say that nearly all forms of government are bad.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2010 6:03:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 9:26:59 PM, MTGandP wrote:
On the other hand, Libertarians are more likely to oppose even a powerful state government, because they would say that nearly all forms of government are bad.

http://homepage.mac.com...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2010 10:05:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 6:03:47 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/23/2010 9:26:59 PM, MTGandP wrote:
On the other hand, Libertarians are more likely to oppose even a powerful state government, because they would say that nearly all forms of government are bad.

http://homepage.mac.com...

"Classical liberal"
Is not a party. Federalist vs. Democrat-Republicans were parties, so what are you saying.
How libertarians are sim to Democrat-Republicans? Is that what you were getting at?