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Marriage

PalinFan
Posts: 322
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7/23/2010 12:24:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Can someone please explain to me if there is truly such thing a civil and religious marriage?
Super Man does not come close to the power of Jesus Christ - GodSands
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 4:54:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 12:24:27 AM, PalinFan wrote:
Can someone please explain to me if there is truly such thing a civil and religious marriage?

You can get married inside or outside of a church, if thats what you mean. I guess there is since you don't need anyone religious to be married.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 5:52:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...

I don't think their different. One might say something religious on it somewhere but other then that I don't think theres any difference.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/23/2010 5:56:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 12:24:27 AM, PalinFan wrote:
Can someone please explain to me if there is truly such thing a civil and religious marriage?:

There isn't one in America. This is how the Netherlands does it, and I think it is a great idea.

The Establishment Clause in the First Amendment makes it very clear that the two should never meet -- they're incompatible. Marriage within the United States has both religion and state intertwined, which is the cause of much undue hardship, and they should be separated so that religious and secular interests are protected from one another.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 5:58:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:56:54 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/23/2010 12:24:27 AM, PalinFan wrote:
Can someone please explain to me if there is truly such thing a civil and religious marriage?:

There isn't one in America. This is how the Netherlands does it, and I think it is a great idea.

The Establishment Clause in the First Amendment makes it very clear that the two should never meet -- they're incompatible. Marriage within the United States has both religion and state intertwined, which is the cause of much undue hardship, and they should be separated so that religious and secular interests are protected from one another.

Then how the hell did my mom get married? She went to a courthouse went through the long and very boring process with just her me my stepdad and a judge. She said it was through the state and not through the church because she doesn't agree with church marriages.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/23/2010 6:12:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Then how the hell did my mom get married?:

What I mean is that a Reverend, Pastor, Priest, Rabbi, etc only have power to marry people through the authority of the State. They are an arm of the State. It was not this way in the past. The government intruded on the affairs of religion with good intentions. But, then, the government always has good intentions when they f*** things up.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/23/2010 7:15:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 6:12:51 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Then how the hell did my mom get married?:

What I mean is that a Reverend, Pastor, Priest, Rabbi, etc only have power to marry people through the authority of the State. They are an arm of the State. It was not this way in the past. The government intruded on the affairs of religion with good intentions. But, then, the government always has good intentions when they f*** things up.

Two of my friends randomly got authorized to perform marriage ceremonies (I forget what you call those people lol). So it seems that if an ordinary citizen can retain the power to legally marry someone, that an ordinary citizen should be able to have that power even if their occupation is priest, rabbi, etc. Of course I agree that all marriage should be civil unions (legally) and if the religious want to retain the word "marriage" for spiritual purposes then they're going to have to get over (accept) the fact that gays are still going to call their unions "marriages" whether people like it or not.
President of DDO
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/23/2010 7:48:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Two of my friends randomly got authorized to perform marriage ceremonies (I forget what you call those people lol). So it seems that if an ordinary citizen can retain the power to legally marry someone, that an ordinary citizen should be able to have that power even if their occupation is priest, rabbi, etc. Of course I agree that all marriage should be civil unions (legally) and if the religious want to retain the word "marriage" for spiritual purposes then they're going to have to get over (accept) the fact that gays are still going to call their unions "marriages" whether people like it or not.:

Wholeheartedly agreed. Tboonepickes seems to think that marriage is an "institution" and that apparently if homosexuals are given the right to marriage, somehow it will destroy his.

My desire to separate religion from secular affairs in the realm of marriage (civil unions) is to respect the rights and beliefs of all, fairly and unilaterally, as much as possible. I don't think it is right for the state to force a pastor to marry homosexuals if it goes against his beliefs. Which is why I think religious ceremonies should be distinct from legal marriage. Besides, marriage for them is consecrated under God, not man. So they shouldn't complain when they're stripped of any legal authority!!!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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7/23/2010 8:39:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 7:15:25 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/23/2010 6:12:51 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Then how the hell did my mom get married?:

What I mean is that a Reverend, Pastor, Priest, Rabbi, etc only have power to marry people through the authority of the State. They are an arm of the State. It was not this way in the past. The government intruded on the affairs of religion with good intentions. But, then, the government always has good intentions when they f*** things up.

Two of my friends randomly got authorized to perform marriage ceremonies (I forget what you call those people lol). So it seems that if an ordinary citizen can retain the power to legally marry someone, that an ordinary citizen should be able to have that power even if their occupation is priest, rabbi, etc. Of course I agree that all marriage should be civil unions (legally) and if the religious want to retain the word "marriage" for spiritual purposes then they're going to have to get over (accept) the fact that gays are still going to call their unions "marriages" whether people like it or not.

Usually they're called "ordained ministers." ;) Oh, wait, that's for religious people ;)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...

No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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7/23/2010 8:49:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

I don't think I'm gonna' ever get married - I don't want to be more involved with government than I need to be ;)
PalinFan
Posts: 322
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7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?
Super Man does not come close to the power of Jesus Christ - GodSands
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 2:05:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?

Yes.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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7/23/2010 2:08:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?

That is correct. There is literally no significance to that ceremony in the eyes of the law and it isn't even necessary.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
PalinFan
Posts: 322
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7/23/2010 2:11:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:08:22 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?

That is correct. There is literally no significance to that ceremony in the eyes of the law and it isn't even necessary.

But than that would mean that if gay marriage as legal churches couldn't be sued because they aren't actually denying them marriage?
Super Man does not come close to the power of Jesus Christ - GodSands
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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7/23/2010 2:15:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:11:06 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:08:22 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?

That is correct. There is literally no significance to that ceremony in the eyes of the law and it isn't even necessary.

But than that would mean that if gay marriage as legal churches couldn't be sued because they aren't actually denying them marriage?

Pretty much. From what I understand, that's what the First Amendment is for.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 2:15:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:11:06 PM, PalinFan wrote:

But than that would mean that if gay marriage as legal churches couldn't be sued because they aren't actually denying them marriage?

It is correct that it is wrong for a church to be sued for upholding the standards of the church, yes. whether they CAN be sued or not, I'm not sure about because there are some messed up law cases.

Like someone sued McDonalds because she spilled coffee on herself.
Someone sued someone else because he broke into the house and got injured in the process.

Doesn't make sense.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PalinFan
Posts: 322
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7/23/2010 2:22:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:15:14 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:11:06 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:08:22 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:02:26 PM, PalinFan wrote:
At 7/23/2010 8:45:58 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:42:50 AM, belle wrote:
you can get a piece of paper from the gov't saying that you're married. you can get a piece of paper from a church saying that you're married. they're two difference pieces of paper as far as i know... so...


No they are not.

When you get married you still have to go to the court house to get a License.

Wait, so then marriage in a church is just a ceremony?

That is correct. There is literally no significance to that ceremony in the eyes of the law and it isn't even necessary.

But than that would mean that if gay marriage as legal churches couldn't be sued because they aren't actually denying them marriage?

Pretty much. From what I understand, that's what the First Amendment is for.

But then that would mean I was lied to by Margaret Gallagher
Super Man does not come close to the power of Jesus Christ - GodSands
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 2:32:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:22:08 PM, PalinFan wrote:

But then that would mean I was lied to by Margaret Gallagher

First off who? Second, humans lie, all the time.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PalinFan
Posts: 322
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7/23/2010 3:17:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 2:32:42 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/23/2010 2:22:08 PM, PalinFan wrote:

But then that would mean I was lied to by Margaret Gallagher

First off who? Second, humans lie, all the time.

president of the National Organization for Marriage

this is her:
Super Man does not come close to the power of Jesus Christ - GodSands
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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7/23/2010 3:49:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 3:37:25 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I thought a priest could legally marry people...

I think that there may be something in regards to marriage licences where they have to be signed by someone legally able to sanction marriages. Priests are one of the many professions able to do so, others include: judges, army officers, salvation army officers, and boat captains.

[Don't take this as absolute, This is just what I believe to be true.]
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/23/2010 4:00:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 3:49:57 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/23/2010 3:37:25 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I thought a priest could legally marry people...

I think that there may be something in regards to marriage licences where they have to be signed by someone legally able to sanction marriages. Priests are one of the many professions able to do so, others include: judges, army officers, salvation army officers, and boat captains.

[Don't take this as absolute, This is just what I believe to be true.]

jw why would army officers and boat captains have that right? Is it something about the government or ranking or something?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave