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Republican senators technically treasonous?

Daltonian
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3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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3/30/2015 3:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

I say that maybe it (impeachment) should be allowed, but if they are impeached, all their replacements should be Republicans, as anything else would make this whole thing a ploy by Democrats to gain more seats.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/30/2015 4:04:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You'd have to call almost all of the sitting senators, if not all of them treasonous. They all swore an oath to the constitution, and without fail they have almost all betrayed it. I would not shed a tear if any of those jerks who trample on our rights is executed for treason.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/30/2015 7:39:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

I haven't looked at your links...assuming what you're saying is true and impeachment looks like a possibility, well, you'd have to ask if it's in anyone's interest to see nearly half of the senate impeached for any reason. It would probably take the US to the brink of martial law.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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3/30/2015 8:23:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

Nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act. Ever.

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

They have done so under Republican administrations for the last five decades.
*In 1975 George McGovern and John Sparkman went to Cuba and met with government officials.
*In 1983 Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets requesting their aid in defeating Ronald Reagan.
*In 1984 House Speaker Jim Wright sent a letter to the Sandinistas praising them.
*In 1985, John Kerry met with the Communist Sandinistas.
*In 1987, Democrats invited the Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega to meet with them.
*In 2002 three Democratic House members went on a tour of Baghdad; later that year Jay Rockefeller met with the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Joran, and Syria to try and undermine Iraq war preparations.
*In 2007 House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.
Daltonian
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3/30/2015 8:36:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:23:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

Nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act. Ever.
That might just be because we've never had a congress as ridiculous as this group of senators.

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

They have done so under Republican administrations for the last five decades.
*In 1975 George McGovern and John Sparkman went to Cuba and met with government officials.
*In 1983 Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets requesting their aid in defeating Ronald Reagan.
*In 1984 House Speaker Jim Wright sent a letter to the Sandinistas praising them.
*In 1985, John Kerry met with the Communist Sandinistas.
*In 1987, Democrats invited the Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega to meet with them.
*In 2002 three Democratic House members went on a tour of Baghdad; later that year Jay Rockefeller met with the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Joran, and Syria to try and undermine Iraq war preparations.
*In 2007 House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.
I don't think this is at all valid.

Quoting the Logan Act,
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government


Pelosi's visit, as well as the other ones you mention (to my knowledge of them) were done only after pre-notifying the existing presidents and/or state departments. Nancy Pelosi, for example, notified both the state department and officials at the white house far before leaving for her trip - the Republican Senators did not. Even though the White House later criticized Pelosi's trip for their own reasons, she had the official permission and authority that she needed to conduct it. She also, according to Republican white house officials and fellow senators, never directly or intentionally bashed/attempted to sabotage the sitting president in her meetings.

This letter, to the contrary, was written with the explicit intention of going around the president, manipulating or otherwise sabotaging his foreign policy, and was in no way done with official authority of the United States.

So, I think this comparison is moot.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/30/2015 8:40:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh, and by that, I meant the comparison to Pelosi, more specifically. Researching some of those other ones, I think they might have applied in the same context this letter did.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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3/30/2015 8:53:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
But James Bond wasn't American, so the law would never apply to him, you sillynanny!

I'm sure that some sort of exception would have to be made for all the James Bondage that went on in any case, though..
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/30/2015 8:54:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:53:03 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
But James Bond wasn't American, so the law would never apply to him, you sillynanny!

Yes, but we secretly love him and wish that all out secret agents were like him. We're American's, we don't make anything, we just import from other countries and call it ours. So he is ours now.


I'm sure that some sort of exception would have to be made for all the James Bondage that went on in any case, though..

Good.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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3/30/2015 8:54:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:36:58 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:23:37 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 3:17:39 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In less than a month, 320 000 people have signed a petition accusing 47 sitting United States Senators of treason for supposedly sabotaging/interfering with negotiations between the United States and Iranian Governments.

Aside from the fact that their farsi letters to the Iranian Government were laughable and sounded like they'd been written by a mentally disabled fifth grader (re: Tom Cotton), many claim they've violated the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized American citizens from "carry[ing] on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."

The petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

The Logan Act in full: https://www.law.cornell.edu...

I'm wondering what DDO's thoughts are on this whole endeavour. Technically, I'm inclined to believe (just upon first impression) that the actions of the senators MUST qualify as treason in accordance with that act, unless their being elected a seat in congress officially grants them authority to represent the United States in foreign relations as a diplomat (something I'm inclined to doubt)

Nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act. Ever.
That might just be because we've never had a congress as ridiculous as this group of senators.

I don't think you have a grasp of how ridiculous early politics were.

What I'm a little less convinced of is whether or not this is some sort of new thing, or if the Democrats ever did the exact same thing under Bush. What do you think about this? Is there something big I'm missing?

They have done so under Republican administrations for the last five decades.
*In 1975 George McGovern and John Sparkman went to Cuba and met with government officials.
*In 1983 Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets requesting their aid in defeating Ronald Reagan.
*In 1984 House Speaker Jim Wright sent a letter to the Sandinistas praising them.
*In 1985, John Kerry met with the Communist Sandinistas.
*In 1987, Democrats invited the Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega to meet with them.
*In 2002 three Democratic House members went on a tour of Baghdad; later that year Jay Rockefeller met with the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Joran, and Syria to try and undermine Iraq war preparations.
*In 2007 House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.
I don't think this is at all valid.

Quoting the Logan Act,
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government


Pelosi's visit, as well as the other ones you mention (to my knowledge of them) were done only after pre-notifying the existing presidents and/or state departments. Nancy Pelosi, for example, notified both the state department and officials at the white house far before leaving for her trip - the Republican Senators did not. Even though the White House later criticized Pelosi's trip for their own reasons, she had the official permission and authority that she needed to conduct it. She also, according to Republican white house officials and fellow senators, never directly or intentionally bashed/attempted to sabotage the sitting president in her meetings.

What about the other six ones I mentioned?

This letter, to the contrary, was written with the explicit intention of going around the president, manipulating or otherwise sabotaging his foreign policy, and was in no way done with official authority of the United States.

So, I think this comparison is moot.
Daltonian
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3/30/2015 9:13:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:54:51 PM, TN05 wrote:
What about the other six ones I mentioned?
I researched some of them, and I don't see reason to accept them as being above Logan's law, either. Of course, deeper research would have to be done to see if they got permission from the State Department or the White House first, but some of them certainly don't seem like they did.

I found this about politifact piece about the thing with Ted Kennedy, which was a claim supposedly made by Rush Limbaugh and debunked:
http://www.politifact.com...

In terms of Sparkman and McGovern, it turns out they themselves were actually accused of violating the Logan Act, though an investigation run by the State Department eventually cleared them of guilt, in part because Cuban officials corroborated his claim that he made it clear that he was not visiting under the authority or on the behalf of the United States in any way (that still sounds fishy to me)

The Jim Wright one strikes me as being the most valid of all of them, and again, Reagan actually did threaten to indict him like Obama has, but it never went anywhere. It is most similar to this situation, because a few of Wright's colleagues actually signed the letter. I would probably say I agree with you on this one, to my judgement, Wright as speaker did probably violate the Logan Act.

Didn't find much on the other ones, which means they probably had some form of permission granted on the behalf of the State Department or the White House or they'd probably be getting more conservative media attention in response to the criticism right now.

Of note is that never before did almost half of the entire senate do this, it was an individual or set of individuals arguably acting on their own accord.

I think the point is that although some people obviously don't like Obama, openly and actively attempting to sabotage him on an international level is pushing it, and actually does border on what SHOULD be considered treason, and that includes Dems that may have done it in the past (because they're all politicians, after all..)
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/30/2015 9:15:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:54:23 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:53:03 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
But James Bond wasn't American, so the law would never apply to him, you sillynanny!

Yes, but we secretly love him and wish that all out secret agents were like him. We're American's, we don't make anything, we just import from other countries and call it ours. So he is ours now.
Our secret agents:
http://img.rt.com...


I'm sure that some sort of exception would have to be made for all the James Bondage that went on in any case, though..

Good.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/30/2015 9:16:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 9:15:28 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:54:23 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:53:03 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
But James Bond wasn't American, so the law would never apply to him, you sillynanny!

Yes, but we secretly love him and wish that all out secret agents were like him. We're American's, we don't make anything, we just import from other countries and call it ours. So he is ours now.
Our secret agents:
http://img.rt.com...

STOP KILLING MY DREAMS!!!!!!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/30/2015 9:18:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 9:16:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 9:15:28 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:54:23 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:53:03 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:46:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
How dare a law try to prevent intercourse with sexy foreign babes! Have they no respect for the legacy of James Bond?!
But James Bond wasn't American, so the law would never apply to him, you sillynanny!

Yes, but we secretly love him and wish that all out secret agents were like him. We're American's, we don't make anything, we just import from other countries and call it ours. So he is ours now.
Our secret agents:
http://img.rt.com...


STOP KILLING MY DREAMS!!!!!!

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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3/30/2015 9:18:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 9:13:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:54:51 PM, TN05 wrote:
What about the other six ones I mentioned?
I researched some of them, and I don't see reason to accept them as being above Logan's law, either. Of course, deeper research would have to be done to see if they got permission from the State Department or the White House first, but some of them certainly don't seem like they did.

I found this about politifact piece about the thing with Ted Kennedy, which was a claim supposedly made by Rush Limbaugh and debunked:
http://www.politifact.com...

They gave it 'debunked' because the memo exists but wasn't confirmed as genuine, like many KGB memos face.

In terms of Sparkman and McGovern, it turns out they themselves were actually accused of violating the Logan Act, though an investigation run by the State Department eventually cleared them of guilt, in part because Cuban officials corroborated his claim that he made it clear that he was not visiting under the authority or on the behalf of the United States in any way (that still sounds fishy to me)

So why not prosecute them?

The Jim Wright one strikes me as being the most valid of all of them, and again, Reagan actually did threaten to indict him like Obama has, but it never went anywhere. It is most similar to this situation, because a few of Wright's colleagues actually signed the letter. I would probably say I agree with you on this one, to my judgement, Wright as speaker did probably violate the Logan Act.

So why not prosecute him?

Didn't find much on the other ones, which means they probably had some form of permission granted on the behalf of the State Department or the White House or they'd probably be getting more conservative media attention in response to the criticism right now.

I default on the side of no permission until proven.

Of note is that never before did almost half of the entire senate do this, it was an individual or set of individuals arguably acting on their own accord.

I think the point is that although some people obviously don't like Obama, openly and actively attempting to sabotage him on an international level is pushing it, and actually does border on what SHOULD be considered treason, and that includes Dems that may have done it in the past (because they're all politicians, after all..)

And Democrats haven't tried to sabotage Republicans before? What makes this different - the scope? There was a fairly vocal anti-war win of the Dems.
Daltonian
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3/30/2015 9:31:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 9:18:27 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 9:13:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:54:51 PM, TN05 wrote:
What about the other six ones I mentioned?
I researched some of them, and I don't see reason to accept them as being above Logan's law, either. Of course, deeper research would have to be done to see if they got permission from the State Department or the White House first, but some of them certainly don't seem like they did.

I found this about politifact piece about the thing with Ted Kennedy, which was a claim supposedly made by Rush Limbaugh and debunked:
http://www.politifact.com...

They gave it 'debunked' because the memo exists but wasn't confirmed as genuine, like many KGB memos face.

In terms of Sparkman and McGovern, it turns out they themselves were actually accused of violating the Logan Act, though an investigation run by the State Department eventually cleared them of guilt, in part because Cuban officials corroborated his claim that he made it clear that he was not visiting under the authority or on the behalf of the United States in any way (that still sounds fishy to me)

So why not prosecute them?
It was attempted and the State Department "cleared" them (<note quotation marks), so it never went through

The Jim Wright one strikes me as being the most valid of all of them, and again, Reagan actually did threaten to indict him like Obama has, but it never went anywhere. It is most similar to this situation, because a few of Wright's colleagues actually signed the letter. I would probably say I agree with you on this one, to my judgement, Wright as speaker did probably violate the Logan Act.

So why not prosecute him?
Ask Ronald Reagan or officials from his government - that was their prerogative, lol.

Let's be realistic, none of these Republicans will be prosecuted, just like those Dems weren't. What MIGHT happen is that the left will be content with themselves in being able to legally call the majority of Republicans in the senate Traitors to the United States of America for a little while, and then everyone will forget about it until it happens again.

Didn't find much on the other ones, which means they probably had some form of permission granted on the behalf of the State Department or the White House or they'd probably be getting more conservative media attention in response to the criticism right now.

I default on the side of no permission until proven.
Fair enough, but I don't have the energy or motivation to devote research into figuring that out. :P

Of note is that never before did almost half of the entire senate do this, it was an individual or set of individuals arguably acting on their own accord.

I think the point is that although some people obviously don't like Obama, openly and actively attempting to sabotage him on an international level is pushing it, and actually does border on what SHOULD be considered treason, and that includes Dems that may have done it in the past (because they're all politicians, after all..)

And Democrats haven't tried to sabotage Republicans before? What makes this different - the scope? There was a fairly vocal anti-war win of the Dems.
I didn't say they haven't, but I don't think that necessarily makes this okay, especially considering the last time it really happened was under Reagan years ago, and (as you said) under a more individualistic scope.

Both sides are probably both guilty of violating this act on a lot of different occasions that the press just hasn't picked up or been able to pick up, for whatever reason.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby