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Anarchism

Reasoning
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7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What is Anarchism? It is the radical notion that other people are not your property.

What is Anarchism? It is the rejection of all authority.

What is Anarchism? It is Manchesterism consistently applied.

What is Anarchism? It is the doctrine that all the affairs of men should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations, and that the State should be abolished.

What is Anarchism? It is the claim that a better world is possible. That what is one man's meat need not be another man's poison.

In short, we find in Anarchism all that is right, just and good and in authority all that is wrong, evil and malevolent.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
mongeese
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7/23/2010 5:49:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Rejection of all authority? Do parents no longer have authority over their children? Do teachers no longer have authority over their students?
Reasoning
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7/23/2010 7:26:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:49:12 PM, mongeese wrote:
Rejection of all authority? Do parents no longer have authority over their children? Do teachers no longer have authority over their students?

We live in a most unlibertaran world. Everywhere man is surrounded by coercive authority. This is the state of affairs that Anarchism wishes to correct.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
mongeese
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7/23/2010 7:44:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 7:26:45 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:49:12 PM, mongeese wrote:
Rejection of all authority? Do parents no longer have authority over their children? Do teachers no longer have authority over their students?

We live in a most unlibertaran world. Everywhere man is surrounded by coercive authority. This is the state of affairs that Anarchism wishes to correct.

...the question requires an affirmative or a deffirmative answer...
comoncents
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7/23/2010 7:49:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What is Anarchism?

A political philosophy that does not work so no need to worry about it.
comoncents
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7/23/2010 8:39:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 7:49:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What is Anarchism?

A political philosophy that does not work so no need to worry about it.

"It will be said that great societies cannot exist without government." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XI, 1782. ME 2:129
FREEDO
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7/23/2010 11:16:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 11:15:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It isn't the abolition of authority, it's the abolition of hierarchy.

For instance there's a saying among Anarchists:
"We don't want to abolish rules, just rulers."
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
I-am-a-panda
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7/24/2010 4:34:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 11:16:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/23/2010 11:15:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It isn't the abolition of authority, it's the abolition of hierarchy.

For instance there's a saying among Anarchists:
"We don't want to abolish rules, just rulers."

Rules require a ruler to enforce 'em.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/24/2010 4:47:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What is Anarchism? It is the doctrine that all the affairs of men should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations, and that the State should be abolished.

What is Anarchism? It is the claim that a better world is possible. That what is one man's meat need not be another man's poison.

In short, we find in Anarchism all that is right, just and good and in authority all that is wrong, evil and malevolent.:

Isn't this a self-defeating principle? You say anarchism should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations, and the State should be abolished. In the absence of authority it leaves a vacuum and a power struggle. These voluntary associations thus become the State, only they aren't bound at all by laws, but rather the dictates of their own sense of morality.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 5:57:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 7:44:48 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/23/2010 7:26:45 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:49:12 PM, mongeese wrote:
Rejection of all authority? Do parents no longer have authority over their children? Do teachers no longer have authority over their students?

We live in a most unlibertaran world. Everywhere man is surrounded by coercive authority. This is the state of affairs that Anarchism wishes to correct.

...the question requires an affirmative or a deffirmative answer...

"Deffirmative"?

Your questions have been answered.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 5:57:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 7:49:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What is Anarchism?

A political philosophy that does not work so no need to worry about it.

I can assert things too. 2 + 2 = 5.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 6:00:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 11:15:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It isn't the abolition of authority, it's the abolition of hierarchy.

http://www.myconfinedspace.com...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
comoncents
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7/24/2010 10:07:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 4:47:44 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What is Anarchism? It is the doctrine that all the affairs of men should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations, and that the State should be abolished.

What is Anarchism? It is the claim that a better world is possible. That what is one man's meat need not be another man's poison.

In short, we find in Anarchism all that is right, just and good and in authority all that is wrong, evil and malevolent.:

Isn't this a self-defeating principle?

Yes

Again,

"It will be said that great societies cannot exist without government." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XI, 1782. ME 2:129
comoncents
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7/24/2010 10:10:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 5:57:57 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/23/2010 7:49:12 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What is Anarchism?

A political philosophy that does not work so no need to worry about it.

I can assert things too. 2 + 2 = 5.

History dictates my sentence is right.

History shows that your sentence was derived by someone who is uneducated.

That is the difference.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/24/2010 10:13:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/23/2010 5:46:16 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What is Anarchism? It is the radical notion that other people are not your property.

What is Anarchism? It is the rejection of all authority.

What is Anarchism? It is Manchesterism consistently applied.

What is Anarchism? It is the doctrine that all the affairs of men should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations, and that the State should be abolished.

What is Anarchism? It is the claim that a better world is possible. That what is one man's meat need not be another man's poison.

In short, we find in Anarchism all that is right, just and good and in authority all that is wrong, evil and malevolent.

Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with and large scale cooperation obtained. How are murderers dealth with, how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace, how do I organise a work force... all this is in limbo in anarchism.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/24/2010 10:18:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with and large scale cooperation obtained. How are murderers dealth with, how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace, how do I organise a work force... all this is in limbo in anarchism.:

Anarchism never gets beyond the theoretical stage. Indeed, the whole concept of an Anarchist government is an oxymoron.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/24/2010 10:24:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 10:18:34 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with and large scale cooperation obtained. How are murderers dealth with, how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace, how do I organise a work force... all this is in limbo in anarchism.:

Anarchism never gets beyond the theoretical stage. Indeed, the whole concept of an Anarchist government is an oxymoron.

It may work in a commune of middle class 'rebels' but not in the real world.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
comoncents
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7/24/2010 10:25:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 10:24:38 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 7/24/2010 10:18:34 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with and large scale cooperation obtained. How are murderers dealth with, how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace, how do I organise a work force... all this is in limbo in anarchism.:

Anarchism never gets beyond the theoretical stage. Indeed, the whole concept of an Anarchist government is an oxymoron.

It may work in a commune of middle class 'rebels' but not in the real world.

I am not sure that it would even work there.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/24/2010 10:35:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It may work in a commune of middle class 'rebels' but not in the real world.:

Within a commune is typically where communists and anarchists test their pet theories. It works fairly well for a time, but they act as if they can simply extrapolate that and achieve the same results within a country of millions upon millions of people.

Like you said, it doesn't work in the real world.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:35:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 4:47:44 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Isn't this a self-defeating principle? You say anarchism should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations,

Anarchism need not be managed by anyone. But, the affairs of men should be managed by individuals or voluntary associations.

and the State should be abolished.

Correct.

These voluntary associations thus become the State,

Voluntary Association =/= State.

only they aren't bound at all by laws, but rather the dictates of their own sense of morality.

That's all anyone's bound by, anyway. That and other people.

Can we have some intelligent discussion now, please?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:35:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 10:10:10 AM, comoncents wrote:
History dictates my sentence is right.

Ummm, no.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/24/2010 11:39:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 11:35:08 AM, Reasoning wrote:


Can we have some intelligent discussion now, please?

Well you could start by trying to make an argument that the many fatal flaws of anarchism are not fatal flaws at all.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:44:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 10:13:54 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with

Define anti-social behaviour.

and large scale cooperation obtained.

What does that even mean?

How are murderers dealth with,

In whatever way is most expedient, as long is it does not violate Liberty.

how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace

How aren't they?

how do I organise a work force

You get together with a bunch of other men and form an association.

... all this is in limbo in anarchism.

All this is possible in Anarchism.

Honestly, these question are absurd. How will pencils be made? How will houses be built? I need not learn the intricacies of pencil manufacture to tell you that it can and shall be done.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:47:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 10:18:34 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Anarchism never gets beyond the theoretical stage.

False. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Indeed, the whole concept of an Anarchist government is an oxymoron.

Well, duh.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/24/2010 11:48:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 11:44:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/24/2010 10:13:54 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with

Define anti-social behaviour.

True crimes, as in murder, rape, adding your garden to my own.


and large scale cooperation obtained.

What does that even mean?

What part of that don't you understand?


How are murderers dealth with,

In whatever way is most expedient, as long is it does not violate Liberty.


So that would be...

how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace

How aren't they?

How are they enforced?


how do I organise a work force

You get together with a bunch of other men and form an association.


Right, and interpersonal disputes are settled how?

... all this is in limbo in anarchism.

All this is possible in Anarchism.


Honestly, these question are absurd. How will pencils be made? How will houses be built? I need not learn the intricacies of pencil manufacture to tell you that it can and shall be done.

Actually those are perfectly valid questions. You have just not thought through the ramifications of what you propose. You assume that in the absence of Government everyone will become nice and intelligent and dance in a meadow singing happy songs.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:49:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 11:39:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Well you could start by trying to make an argument that the many fatal flaws of anarchism are not fatal flaws at all.

You'd have to first make an argument that such "flaws" exist.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/24/2010 11:52:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 11:49:15 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/24/2010 11:39:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Well you could start by trying to make an argument that the many fatal flaws of anarchism are not fatal flaws at all.

You'd have to first make an argument that such "flaws" exist.

Let us say I want to build a bridge over a river to aid the transit of goods and services between two villages.

Under a normal country with laws and what not I would have to prove I have the know how, or can someone, competent to build a bridge. I should not be allowed to build it out of rice pudding or with sub-standard materials to save money. So we have building regulations. Totally fair and sensible. Not possible in anarchy.

I also have an established method of hiring people, and of dealing with disputes with my work force. Again not possible in anarchy.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Reasoning
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7/24/2010 11:56:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/24/2010 11:48:53 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 7/24/2010 11:44:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 7/24/2010 10:13:54 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Anarchism fails to explain how anti-social behaviour will be dealt with

Define anti-social behaviour.

True crimes, as in murder, rape, adding your garden to my own.

However men deal with it is how it will be dealt with.

and large scale cooperation obtained.

What does that even mean?

What part of that don't you understand?

What is large scale cooperation? What are you cooperating to accomplish?

How are murderers dealth with,

In whatever way is most expedient, as long is it does not violate Liberty.

So that would be...

Whatever way turns out to be most expedient.

how are weights and measurements established in the marketplace

How aren't they?

How are they enforced?

How are weights and measures enforced?

how do I organise a work force

You get together with a bunch of other men and form an association.

Right, and interpersonal disputes are settled how?

Through arbitration, generally, I would imagine. Through violence if necessary.

... all this is in limbo in anarchism.

All this is possible in Anarchism.


Honestly, these question are absurd. How will pencils be made? How will houses be built? I need not learn the intricacies of pencil manufacture to tell you that it can and shall be done.

Actually those are perfectly valid questions.

They are concerns that are not important.

You have just not thought through the ramifications of what you propose.

I certainly have. How dare you assume otherwise?

You assume that in the absence of Government everyone will become nice and intelligent and dance in a meadow singing happy songs.

On the contrary.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran