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Dscrimination is not a right.

LiberalProlifer
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4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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4/10/2015 3:15:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

This would make boycotts illegal.

The core of the matter is that anyone can do anything along these lines for any reason as long as they keep that reason to themselves. Its not until that particular dirty laundry about the nature of a discrimination gets out that things turn ugly.
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Lupo
Posts: 90
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4/10/2015 6:10:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Becareful, this can create egalitarianism, "if you don't hire me, I will sue you, because i'm black", "You need to have 50% of female employees, whether they are qualified or not." and etc.

I think discrimination based on color or sex is pure ignorance, and "equal opportunities" is a right, or else, I want to be equal to Bill Gates.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/10/2015 2:27:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 3:15:09 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

This would make boycotts illegal.

The core of the matter is that anyone can do anything along these lines for any reason as long as they keep that reason to themselves. Its not until that particular dirty laundry about the nature of a discrimination gets out that things turn ugly.

This.

Plus since most discrimination hurts business (see Indiana), markets will work out a lot of the issues faster than regulation.
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1Percenter
Posts: 781
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4/10/2015 5:59:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality doesn't exist, so how can it possibly be a right? Citizens have the right to discriminate for any reason. To say that there are exceptions, e.g. skin color, is to invoke thoughtcrime.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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4/10/2015 6:38:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
To say that equality is a right is to encourage totalitarian governments to enforce at gunpoint "equality" for their own benefit.

"Everyone shall equally love me!" NO ELECTIONS! we are of one mind on this, or you are a dead man.
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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4/10/2015 6:46:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 3:15:09 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

This would make boycotts illegal.

The core of the matter is that anyone can do anything along these lines for any reason as long as they keep that reason to themselves. Its not until that particular dirty laundry about the nature of a discrimination gets out that things turn ugly.

Right on.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

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LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 7:16:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 5:59:55 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality doesn't exist, so how can it possibly be a right? Citizens have the right to discriminate for any reason. To say that there are exceptions, e.g. skin color, is to invoke thoughtcrime.

Yes it does. People have the right to be equal.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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4/10/2015 7:43:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:16:34 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 5:59:55 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality doesn't exist, so how can it possibly be a right? Citizens have the right to discriminate for any reason. To say that there are exceptions, e.g. skin color, is to invoke thoughtcrime.

Oh lord here we go with the thought crime. No one is trying to police your every move. They have every right to discriminate in their minds, sure go ahead, but one that thought manifests itself into an action it obviously becomes a problem.

People are complaining about "thought police" when the "disadvantaged" are policed everyday mentally and physically. Go ahead and thin about how much you are going hate and wan't to agitate or alienate one group of people for what ever twisted reason. Go ahead and think that it is your right to have a racial preference and that there is no issue or fallacy in your thinking. To do so is to live in denial. The people who are discriminated against think that maybe they will be seen as a human today, but abruptly get reminded when they get pulled over, berated, alienated etc.

It only doesn't exist because we are bound under this social contract.

Yes it does. People have the right to be equal.

I think you're saying wrong. I think what you are trying to articulate that we are are created equal, as humans, we are intrinsically equal, and that no one has the right to take away that which makes you biologically equal to another person: your humanity. To take a persons humanity, is to reduce them to a sub-person, an inferior, less than human, an animal or savage. Everyone has the right to discriminate as they have a right to sentience, but to do so to the detriment of others shows how low and insecure that person is. No one has the intrinsic right to judge others or impose your own beliefs on others as if you were the creator and not the created, because you are not perfect. But should that person exercise his or her's sentience in this manner then he or she will show you what type of human that person is or wishes to be. If we weren't bound by this sickening social contract and if there were people who didn't perpetuate these social contracts and barriers, then we would have true equality.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/10/2015 7:43:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What does being created equal have to do with equality?
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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4/10/2015 7:44:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately this wasn't referring to people of color. In the constitution they address them as persons or chattle, not men.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 7:49:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:44:56 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately this wasn't referring to people of color. In the constitution they address them as persons or chattle, not men.

You aee wrong. All people have the equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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4/10/2015 8:05:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 7:49:22 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:44:56 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately this wasn't referring to people of color. In the constitution they address them as persons or chattle, not men.

You aee wrong. All people have the equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh what a delusion you live in. Just read it for yourself I really don't have the time to debate you and your naivety. I'll probably make a thread on it later.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 8:19:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:05:05 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:49:22 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:44:56 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately this wasn't referring to people of color. In the constitution they address them as persons or chattle, not men.

You aee wrong. All people have the equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh what a delusion you live in. Just read it for yourself I really don't have the time to debate you and your naivety. I'll probably make a thread on it later.

You have no proof that I am delusional. I have backed up my arguments with facts, while you have not. I quoted the founding fathers and you did not. You need to debate the facts.
Harper
Posts: 374
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4/10/2015 8:26:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Being served at a private business is not a right, either.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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4/10/2015 8:26:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
People are equal in the sense that they generally don't want to die, don't want to be sad, and don't want to feel predestined.

Every other aspect about other people is WILDLY unequal.

The End.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 8:35:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:26:08 PM, Harper wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Being served at a private business is not a right, either.

Equality is a right. We hold these truths to be self evident that all people are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/10/2015 8:46:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 5:59:55 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality doesn't exist, so how can it possibly be a right? Citizens have the right to discriminate for any reason. To say that there are exceptions, e.g. skin color, is to invoke thoughtcrime.

Well, we throw around the world "rights" because we're stuck using the language and ideas of the American founders, which most of us now acknowledge aren't completely accurate. If you're going to argue that equality isn't a right, you might as well also argue that life isn't a right.

Equality and life are both political wants. It requires action and some degree of social consensus to establish both of these as rights. Absent of that action and social consensus, those right's really aren't rights.

But I understand the perspectives with which you're both approaching this issue. I think equal rights and the right to life are both worth defending in our society, which is why I support certain types of political and social action that approve of both of these.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/10/2015 8:50:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Anyway, I agree with social contract theory. Rights (and laws for that matter) come from established social contracts and the loyalty (or force) we provide to defend those contracts. Absent of those social contracts and that loyalty and force, individuals only have wants--not rights.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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4/10/2015 9:03:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:19:22 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:05:05 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:49:22 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:44:56 PM, AFism wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:41:12 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 7:34:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality is not a right, nor does color based discrimination count as a violation of ones rights. Why are you against the United Negroe College Fund anyway? Can you actually spend some time looking into this stuff before spamming the forum please?

Yes it is a right: We hold these truths to self evident that all men are CREATED EQUAL and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable RIGHTS such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately this wasn't referring to people of color. In the constitution they address them as persons or chattle, not men.

You aee wrong. All people have the equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh what a delusion you live in. Just read it for yourself I really don't have the time to debate you and your naivety. I'll probably make a thread on it later.

You have no proof that I am delusional. I have backed up my arguments with facts, while you have not. I quoted the founding fathers and you did not. You need to debate the facts.

Read the constitution and the 14th amendment. It is all in the spirit and the language of the document.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 9:25:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:50:46 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Anyway, I agree with social contract theory. Rights (and laws for that matter) come from established social contracts and the loyalty (or force) we provide to defend those contracts. Absent of those social contracts and that loyalty and force, individuals only have wants--not rights.

I like the founding documents too. :)
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/10/2015 9:31:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 9:25:50 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:50:46 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Anyway, I agree with social contract theory. Rights (and laws for that matter) come from established social contracts and the loyalty (or force) we provide to defend those contracts. Absent of those social contracts and that loyalty and force, individuals only have wants--not rights.

I like the founding documents too. :)

Same here. I think America took a major step by creating a U.S. Constitution and declaring the obligations and restrictions of governments and the rights and legal limitations of the people. It brought clarity to a social issue that had bothered philosophers in previous generations and that made life difficult in previous ages.

The Constitution named what government could do and couldn't do and what rights people had. It was a major step toward political modernization!
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/10/2015 9:40:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 9:31:32 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/10/2015 9:25:50 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:50:46 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Anyway, I agree with social contract theory. Rights (and laws for that matter) come from established social contracts and the loyalty (or force) we provide to defend those contracts. Absent of those social contracts and that loyalty and force, individuals only have wants--not rights.

I like the founding documents too. :)

Same here. I think America took a major step by creating a U.S. Constitution and declaring the obligations and restrictions of governments and the rights and legal limitations of the people. It brought clarity to a social issue that had bothered philosophers in previous generations and that made life difficult in previous ages.

The Constitution named what government could do and couldn't do and what rights people had. It was a major step toward political modernization!


You are so right. I agree.
AFism
Posts: 1,030
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4/10/2015 10:13:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:35:01 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:26:08 PM, Harper wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Being served at a private business is not a right, either.

Equality is a right. We hold these truths to be self evident that all people are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If that is the only basis for your argument, I am astounded. It is evident that that statement wasn't talking about all people just because our founding fathers declared it. This is show in the fact that we have amendments...
1Percenter
Posts: 781
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4/11/2015 1:48:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:46:50 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/10/2015 5:59:55 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Equality doesn't exist, so how can it possibly be a right? Citizens have the right to discriminate for any reason. To say that there are exceptions, e.g. skin color, is to invoke thoughtcrime.

Well, we throw around the world "rights" because we're stuck using the language and ideas of the American founders, which most of us now acknowledge aren't completely accurate. If you're going to argue that equality isn't a right, you might as well also argue that life isn't a right.

Equality and life are both political wants. It requires action and some degree of social consensus to establish both of these as rights. Absent of that action and social consensus, those right's really aren't rights.


No right is contingent on the consensus of other people. A right necessarily supersedes all other claims. If it ceases to exist the moment someone changes their mind, it cannot possibly be a right!
But I understand the perspectives with which you're both approaching this issue. I think equal rights and the right to life are both worth defending in our society, which is why I support certain types of political and social action that approve of both of these.

Hopefully you agree that rights should be consistent with what is observable in the real world. As you said, some of the ideas of the founding fathers aren't completely accurate. Despite what is written in the Declaration of Independence, it is observable that all men are NOT created equal in any way, genetically, legally, or spiritually. Therefore, any policy aimed at establishing equal rights is doomed to failure.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/11/2015 6:28:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Why do you make so many bare assertions on a debate site?
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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4/11/2015 12:09:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Duh.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/11/2015 7:53:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 6:28:56 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:39:34 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I say this because equality is a right. Discrimination based on skin color violates someone's rights for example.

Why do you make so many bare assertions on a debate site?

Prove me wrong. I have backed up my claims with a quote from the founding fathers.You need to debate the facts. debate the facts. to