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Cuban Developments on a Cancer Vaccine

1harderthanyouthink
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5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
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YYW
Posts: 36,355
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5/16/2015 5:58:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

I don't really think there is any person who would say that the Cuban embargo was a good thing.
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 6:56:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

Their buildings don't look nice, but that doesn't speak to the magnitude of the scientific discovery they may have just made. Not does it speak to their high rankings in health, which is about on par with ours (their life expectancy is actually better than ours).

Which is remarkable, because their average wage is equal to $19 per month. They may have done a lot better economically over the past decades if the US didn't have the pointless embargo.

Cuba has the highest ratio of doctor to population ratio in the world, and as of 2014 over 50,000 Cuban doctors, which have a reputation for being remarkably trained, are serving 66 foreign countries, according to the WHO.

So their facilities may be shitty, but give credit where it's due to their ability to overcome their obstacles and achieve such high health rankings.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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5/16/2015 7:03:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

The left just for some reason can't bring itself to accept Cuba is not a socialist paradise.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
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5/16/2015 7:08:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 5:58:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

I don't really think there is any person who would say that the Cuban embargo was a good thing.

The Cuban embargo was a good thing 'cause they're dirty commies.
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bsh1
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5/16/2015 7:11:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 6:56:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

Their buildings don't look nice, but that doesn't speak to the magnitude of the scientific discovery they may have just made. Not does it speak to their high rankings in health, which is about on par with ours (their life expectancy is actually better than ours).

Which is remarkable, because their average wage is equal to $19 per month. They may have done a lot better economically over the past decades if the US didn't have the pointless embargo.

Cuba has the highest ratio of doctor to population ratio in the world, and as of 2014 over 50,000 Cuban doctors, which have a reputation for being remarkably trained, are serving 66 foreign countries, according to the WHO.

So their facilities may be shitty, but give credit where it's due to their ability to overcome their obstacles and achieve such high health rankings.

+1
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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5/16/2015 7:19:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

So what, next were going to lift all sanctions and embargoes on North Korea because they may have an immortality serum?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/16/2015 7:21:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

So not only does the embargo prevent me from making daiquiris that proper way (with Havana Club), it's prevented a lung cancer vaccine from reaching US markets.

It needs to die.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 7:28:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:19:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

So what, next were going to lift all sanctions and embargoes on North Korea because they may have an immortality serum?

This has been tested in Cuba, Peru, and some European countries. Don't even try.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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5/16/2015 7:30:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 6:56:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

Their buildings don't look nice, but that doesn't speak to the magnitude of the scientific discovery they may have just made. Not does it speak to their high rankings in health, which is about on par with ours (their life expectancy is actually better than ours).


Life expectancy has little to do with quality of medical care beyond a certain point (in China it's only six years less than it is in the UK despite the fact that China smokes heavily and has terrible pollution and only spends 224 dollars per person per year on health care). And Cuban life expectancy is only slightly higher than the Central American average (like one or two years more). And Cuba is significantly richer and spends more of its GDP on healthcare. Cuba has zero Nobel Prizes in medicine (or anything, for that matter). It's not medically advanced.

The fact that it took years for the US to import this technology (no, it's not new) just shows what a bureaucratic mess the US medical industry is faced with. Paradoxically Cuba is too poor to implement such protocols so their research is able to accomplish more.

And it's not actually a cure for cancer by the way. It's simply a new way of applying old technology to starve tumors on yet another kind of organ.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A study of 80 people? lol. Best proof. Convinced. Very representative.

We're doing trials this year, so we'll know for sure then. UK hasn't approved it. Right now the evidence for it's effectiveness is.... Bad. Sample sizes need to be larger as a demographic size increases. For 1% of the population it should be 500+ (Nock 2001). Breast cancer is common as hell, so 80 isn't gonna cut it. The fact that only Cuba has approved it as of now tells us how convincing current evidence is.

It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 8:04:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:30:27 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:56:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

Their buildings don't look nice, but that doesn't speak to the magnitude of the scientific discovery they may have just made. Not does it speak to their high rankings in health, which is about on par with ours (their life expectancy is actually better than ours).


Life expectancy has little to do with quality of medical care beyond a certain point (in China it's only six years less than it is in the UK despite the fact that China smokes heavily and has terrible pollution and only spends 224 dollars per person per year on health care).

Six years is significant. China is 65th in life expectancy, and the UK is 28th, according to the WHO.

And Cuban life expectancy is only slightly higher than the Central American average (like one or two years more).

Their life expectancy is about 5-6 more years than the Latin American and Carribbean average.

Their infant mortality is 6.5/100,000. The US is 7.8/100,000. The Latin American and Caribbean is 26.37. (According to the World Bank)

Their HIV prevalence is the lowest in the Americas, and they are incredibly effective at preventing children from inhereting it from HIV positive mothers.

And Cuba is significantly richer and spends more of its GDP on healthcare.

So, maybe they're doing something right.

Cuba has zero Nobel Prizes in medicine (or anything, for that matter). It's not medically advanced.

They don't have a fraction of the research money other scientists have. Medical advancement =/= quality of doctors and ability to treat citizens.

The fact that it took years for the US to import this technology (no, it's not new) just shows what a bureaucratic mess the US medical industry is faced with. Paradoxically Cuba is too poor to implement such protocols so their research is able to accomplish more.

And it's not actually a cure for cancer by the way. It's simply a new way of applying old technology to starve tumors on yet another kind of organ.

The vaccine is a far better advancement
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 8:06:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.

I did say it was a development...I don't recall saying it was proven.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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5/16/2015 8:14:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:28:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:19:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 5/16/2015 5:55:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.wired.com...

The reason I put so many links is because when I first heard about it, I thought it was a hoax.

So, how do we feel about that trade embargo we've had for roughly 40-50 years more than we should have?

So what, next were going to lift all sanctions and embargoes on North Korea because they may have an immortality serum?

This has been tested in Cuba, Peru, and some European countries. Don't even try.

What I'm saying is this:
So they had a cancer vaccine. That doesn't mean that all embargoes of countries under dictatorships is a bad idea.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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5/16/2015 8:21:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 8:04:05 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:30:27 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:56:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:20:45 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Meanwhile in an actual Cuban hospital: https://www.youtube.com...

Their buildings don't look nice, but that doesn't speak to the magnitude of the scientific discovery they may have just made. Not does it speak to their high rankings in health, which is about on par with ours (their life expectancy is actually better than ours).


Life expectancy has little to do with quality of medical care beyond a certain point (in China it's only six years less than it is in the UK despite the fact that China smokes heavily and has terrible pollution and only spends 224 dollars per person per year on health care).

Six years is significant. China is 65th in life expectancy, and the UK is 28th, according to the WHO.


The point is that life expectancy is not a direct function of medical quality. Lifestyle and genetics play a large role, and sometimes even account for the entire difference between two countries.

And Cuban life expectancy is only slightly higher than the Central American average (like one or two years more).

Their life expectancy is about 5-6 more years than the Latin American and Carribbean average.


You probably saw this link: http://www.paho.org...

I went and checked all the countries in the region and found that they were all around 77-78.

Cuba 79.4
Barbados 78.5
Panama77.8
Dominica 77.5
Uruguay77.3
Mexico77.2
Maldives 77.2
Bahrain77
Bahamas 76.5

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Their HIV prevalence is the lowest in the Americas, and they are incredibly effective at preventing children from inhereting it from HIV positive mothers.

And Cuba is significantly richer and spends more of its GDP on healthcare.

So, maybe they're doing something right.

Cuba has zero Nobel Prizes in medicine (or anything, for that matter). It's not medically advanced.

They don't have a fraction of the research money other scientists have. Medical advancement =/= quality of doctors and ability to treat citizens.

Yes, that's why they aren't medically advanced.


The fact that it took years for the US to import this technology (no, it's not new) just shows what a bureaucratic mess the US medical industry is faced with. Paradoxically Cuba is too poor to implement such protocols so their research is able to accomplish more.

And it's not actually a cure for cancer by the way. It's simply a new way of applying old technology to starve tumors on yet another kind of organ.

The vaccine is a far better advancement
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 8:46:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 8:21:44 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:04:05 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
You probably saw this link: http://www.paho.org...

I went and checked all the countries in the region and found that they were all around 77-78.

Cuba 79.4

"Average life expectancy in Latin America and the Caribbean rose from 29 years in 1900 to 74 years in 2010"

-Your link
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/16/2015 9:08:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 8:06:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.

I did say it was a development...I don't recall saying it was proven.

But your argument was "Cuban embargo was bad" (it was) "because we don't get this stuff", lol.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/16/2015 9:09:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 9:08:07 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:06:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.

I did say it was a development...I don't recall saying it was proven.

But your argument was "Cuban embargo was bad" (it was) "because we don't get this stuff", lol.

If the embargo didn't exist, this could've gotten US-level research funding for the past 25 years.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/16/2015 9:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 9:09:42 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 9:08:07 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:06:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.

I did say it was a development...I don't recall saying it was proven.

But your argument was "Cuban embargo was bad" (it was) "because we don't get this stuff", lol.

If the embargo didn't exist, this could've gotten US-level research funding for the past 25 years.

I mean, that is true, I haven't looked into the embargo (but I am pro free trade, so I am skeptical of it). But we already have cancer vaccines, so this isn't really new technology. You seem to assume that it is going to work, when that may or may not be true. You also seem to use this to justify their health care system, which is terrible. Canada, Sweden? Sure, use that if you want to argue for a NHS. But Cuba? Come on
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/17/2015 10:31:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 9:13:22 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/16/2015 9:09:42 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 9:08:07 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:06:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:46:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
It may work. I hope it does. But to act like it has been "proven" to work is silly. It hasn't come close to that point.

I did say it was a development...I don't recall saying it was proven.

But your argument was "Cuban embargo was bad" (it was) "because we don't get this stuff", lol.

If the embargo didn't exist, this could've gotten US-level research funding for the past 25 years.

I mean, that is true, I haven't looked into the embargo (but I am pro free trade, so I am skeptical of it). But we already have cancer vaccines, so this isn't really new technology. You seem to assume that it is going to work, when that may or may not be true. You also seem to use this to justify their health care system, which is terrible. Canada, Sweden? Sure, use that if you want to argue for a NHS. But Cuba? Come on

Please tell me where I said that this, and solely this, makes their health care strong.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King