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Ineedtotalktomoreliberals:Nazis&Conservatives

Skynet
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5/22/2015 11:30:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Extending the olive branch to those on the other side of the aisle in this series of forum posts has been productive in sparking conversation, but probably no one has changed their mind much on anything...yet.

I want to talk about the popular correlation between Nazis and Conservatives. I hear often that Hitler was an extreme right wing politician. The correlation is not obviously direct, but in American politics, Conservatives are the right wing. The relationship seems implied. Other than nomenclature, what strongly associates Nazis with American Conservatives? I see a great deal of difference between American and early 20th century German politics. Do liberals actually believe Himmler and Reagan have a lot in common?
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
thett3
Posts: 14,338
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5/22/2015 11:58:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's important to understand that the left-right distinction absolutely varies with time and place and while particular ideologies like conservatism, liberalism, socialism, ect may arguably remain somewhat consistent, the left-right distinction is a heuristic to help us envision the status quo. National Socialism was not really right wing, but it was *more* right wing than it's principal opponent, both internally and internationally, of communism.

I think the above answer is too simplistic, though. Nazism used a lot of conservativish rhetoric that would make it seem right wing on the surface. Historically liberalism has been about the liberation of mankind from the existing social structure (things like family, local community, aristocracy ect), and conservatism has been about preserving these very things. The society into which Hitler and the majority of influential people during the time would've been born into was *just* traditional/conservative enough for them to get an idea of the power of conservative social structures. At the beginning of the great war, the monarchial principle reigned supreme in Europe, not democracy, the landed gentry/nobility was still an important political entity for example. The war changed all of that.

But on top of that, they also knew the power of nationalism--WWI was little more than a pissing match between various leaders of this new concept called the nation-state. So much death and destruction for...nothing. The danger of fascism was that it combined conservative memes with the very nationalism that helped destroy these concepts. The Nazis knew, as conservatives used to emphasize, that humans have an inherent need to *belong*, and if they can't get this sense of belongingness from other factors they will turn to the state. This is why the Nazi's expressed such enmity towards the churches, these organizations were politically powerful and constituted competition in the loyalties of man. A German must be loyal to their country above all. The Nazi's, in a sort of similar way to revolutionary France, tried to copy and governmentize the community through organizations like Hitler Youth. This is why Nazism gets the right wing label...they formed a political community, a concept alien to traditional liberalism and much more akin to conservatism even if the political community is the very thing that destroys the old, conservative social order.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
xus00HAY
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5/23/2015 9:08:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
" Nazis" is an anglicized form of a German word that is not unlike national socialism. The nazi party may have had something to do with socialism in the past.
thett3
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5/23/2015 9:57:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/23/2015 7:25:11 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
How is the idea of a political community not associated with the party of government safety nets?

It sort of is now--although neither party in America is opposed to the safety net. But the safety net in itself is more just collectivism rather than any form of community--if the democrats start creating compulsory, nationwide organizations to mimic traditional community it would be closer to what I'm talking about. The difference was more based on rhetoric. The reasons the Nazis used for government power came from more right wing rhetoric like pride rather than the left which today bizarrely uses its rhetoric of freedom and rights to advocate for a society that is decidedly unfree.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Skynet
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5/26/2015 6:49:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well I guess if no liberals respond I'll know it's just merely a slogan and implied slander imbedded in my prior history textbooks, and not really something anyone believes.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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5/26/2015 7:52:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 11:30:19 PM, Skynet wrote:
Extending the olive branch to those on the other side of the aisle in this series of forum posts has been productive in sparking conversation, but probably no one has changed their mind much on anything...yet.

I want to talk about the popular correlation between Nazis and Conservatives. I hear often that Hitler was an extreme right wing politician. The correlation is not obviously direct, but in American politics, Conservatives are the right wing. The relationship seems implied. Other than nomenclature, what strongly associates Nazis with American Conservatives? I see a great deal of difference between American and early 20th century German politics. Do liberals actually believe Himmler and Reagan have a lot in common?

Referring to Nazism as right-wing is inherently deceptive. Like thett said, Nazism is nationalistic and uses conservative rhetoric. It is important to emphasize, however, that Nazi economics are not right-wing in any meaningful sense. Nazi economic policy was characterized by a very activist government, which stands in stark contrast to economic liberalism (the modern policy of virtually all modern conservative parties in the Western world). The average Nazi lies far closer to a contemporary socialist than to any real right-wing economic system.