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Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...
lannan13
Posts: 23,065
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5/29/2015 11:33:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

That's why I find it funny that there's tons of Dems that want the Citizens United Case overturned.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,282
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5/29/2015 3:17:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As long as government have the powers of mandates and regulations for sale to the highest donor, money will always find a way.

Sad, but the system the Dems set up has now tainted the current Repubs to the point of no return. At least it's not as bad as Russia (yet).
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,282
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5/29/2015 3:40:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

A disturbing thing to note is that many organizations buy select people from both parties.

The ones who chair regulation and mandate committees of course.

Corruption is not a party issue, it's a power issue. Think about that next time you go about bleating the "Liberal regulations are good" mantras.

Or bleating "conservative anti-freedom mandates are necessary"
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/29/2015 7:00:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

"The Koch brothers run the Republican party" is a rather different "conspiracy theory" than "The government's got sekrit camps and they're going to round everybody up!!", which are the sort of conspiracy theories that get laughed at. Certainly, denying that the Koch brothers have a great deal of influence would be incredibly foolish. Also, Koch Industries donations disclosed on that list do not include money they personally gave or, IIRC, money they aren't required to disclose--so it's not quite as cut and dried as you're declaring I don't believe.
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Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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5/29/2015 7:36:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:00:25 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

"The Koch brothers run the Republican party" is a rather different "conspiracy theory" than "The government's got sekrit camps and they're going to round everybody up!!", which are the sort of conspiracy theories that get laughed at.

And the difference is that one is adopted by a small, fringe element (the latter) while one is a widespread belief, one that you even happen to sympathize with as evidenced belo.

Certainly, denying that the Koch brothers have a great deal of influence would be incredibly foolish.

I'm not, in fact they have the 48th most influence, behind dominantly left leaning organizations, what say you about those?

Also, Koch Industries donations disclosed on that list do not include money they personally gave

There are pretty strict campaign finance limits on individual donations.

or, IIRC, money they aren't required to disclose--so it's not quite as cut and dried as you're declaring I don't believe.

If you could clarify what exactly that is, since I tried looking it up to no avail it'd be appreciated.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/29/2015 7:59:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:36:19 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:00:25 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

"The Koch brothers run the Republican party" is a rather different "conspiracy theory" than "The government's got sekrit camps and they're going to round everybody up!!", which are the sort of conspiracy theories that get laughed at.

And the difference is that one is adopted by a small, fringe element (the latter) while one is a widespread belief, one that you even happen to sympathize with as evidenced belo.

It's not really that, it's that one has a basis in fact (The Koch brothers DO have significant impact, and you are utterly conflating "All politcal donations" with "donations to Republicans" which makes the reasonins flawed, while the other is NOT based on anything real.

Certainly, denying that the Koch brothers have a great deal of influence would be incredibly foolish.

I'm not, in fact they have the 48th most influence, behind dominantly left leaning organizations, what say you about those?

I say that left-leaning organizations don't affect the Republican party, so that's a nonsensical question.


Also, Koch Industries donations disclosed on that list do not include money they personally gave

There are pretty strict campaign finance limits on individual donations.

No, there aren't, not if they give money to a PAC.

or, IIRC, money they aren't required to disclose--so it's not quite as cut and dried as you're declaring I don't believe.

If you could clarify what exactly that is, since I tried looking it up to no avail it'd be appreciated.

Not all political donations are required to be disclosed, depending on how the organization the money goes to is structured taxwise. ULTIMATELY the money is disclosed...but if the Kochs give money in a way that doesn't have to be disclosed, to an organization that then DOES have to disclose, disclosure happens...but not "really". 501(c)(4) (non-profits) organizations don't have to make it public, for instance (though I believe there is a file SOMEWHERE, just not where it could be compiled publicly)--ostensibly they're non-profits, but they as organizations can justify political spending and rarely get called to task when that's all they really do. Karl Rove's Crossroads GPS organization, for example, gets to take anonymous donations--and donations to the group skyrocketed past his original Crossroads organization largely because of it. 501(c)(6) organizations (trade groups) don't, either. This is pretty readily available if you look for it...I mean, it's complicated, and there's more rules (and loopholes) than I've just mentioned, but I really don't understand how you could have looked and not found.

Some of it's outlined here:

http://www.slate.com...
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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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5/29/2015 8:12:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 7:00:25 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

"The Koch brothers run the Republican party" is a rather different "conspiracy theory" than "The government's got sekrit camps and they're going to round everybody up!!", which are the sort of conspiracy theories that get laughed at. Certainly, denying that the Koch brothers have a great deal of influence would be incredibly foolish. Also, Koch Industries donations disclosed on that list do not include money they personally gave or, IIRC, money they aren't required to disclose--so it's not quite as cut and dried as you're declaring I don't believe.

So the "George Soros runs the Democratic party" people aren't conspiracy theorists?
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/29/2015 8:20:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 8:12:44 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:00:25 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/29/2015 7:12:43 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It's hilarious when conservative conspiracy theories are met with insults and contempt and liberal conspiracy theories become fact, like the one that the republican party is ran by the koch brothers and big money, let's look at the facts.

Koch Brothers are a distant #48 in the top campaign financiers.

Of the top 25 organizations that donate to political causes, 21 lean democrat.

https://www.opensecrets.org...

"The Koch brothers run the Republican party" is a rather different "conspiracy theory" than "The government's got sekrit camps and they're going to round everybody up!!", which are the sort of conspiracy theories that get laughed at. Certainly, denying that the Koch brothers have a great deal of influence would be incredibly foolish. Also, Koch Industries donations disclosed on that list do not include money they personally gave or, IIRC, money they aren't required to disclose--so it's not quite as cut and dried as you're declaring I don't believe.

So the "George Soros runs the Democratic party" people aren't conspiracy theorists?

OP talked about people being "laughed at"--the Soros thing isn't something I see as being generally considered "laughable".

I know I don't think it's laughable--I would argue his influence is less than the Kochs, but not like by such leaps and bounds as to be comparably laughable. OP only gave one specific example, the Koch brothers and "big money" running the Republcian party. First, that is 100% true, because it incorporates more than just the Koch brothers, it folds in other "big money", and if you don't think the "big money" runs BOTH parties (just diffferent big monies), then that's a whole different rabbithole.

If he was talking about ones like the Soros thing, my response would have been different...it would have been that that's NOT considered laughable, but that the Koch brothers AND big money exert more control than just Soros.
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